Yeah, they were already hiring in people for years under the new plan. The way I feel about it is if you go into a situation knowing you are in a cash balance plan and are ok with it that's your business. If however they offered a traditional pension when you started and you got on with them because that was important to you, they have an obligation to fulfill their promise to provide you with a traditional pension. What amazes me is FedEx can tell you every year what you've accrued in the plan so far and what your projected monthly payment at retirement will be, right up until they come out of the blue and say the rule changes are forcing them to terminate the plan, and people buy that. Exactly the same thing going on with Ground, telling us the marketplace has changed, that shippers are looking for cheaper alternatives. And people buy that, not thinking about all the Ground infrastructure they built, all the stations that were closed down, all the no longer needed stepvans replaced. Of course shippers want cheaper alternatives, they wanted them 15 years ago when they were paying through the nose for Express. But coworkers act like this is the new normal in the market, can't put 2+2 together that they've been played, been used, to get FedEx to this point. And what is criminal about it all is that it's not just shipping Ground that will get profits to almost double. It's our poor raises and our ridiculous portable pension plan too. They could have made plenty just shifting to Ground, but they just couldn't help themselves, they're control freaks who just had to stick it to us too just because they could. Pirates.
Doomsday Clock
- Thread starter vantexan
- Start date
Yeah, they were already hiring in people for years under the new plan. The way I feel about it is if you go into a situation knowing you are in a cash balance plan and are ok with it that's your business. If however they offered a traditional pension when you started and you got on with them because that was important to you, they have an obligation to fulfill their promise to provide you with a traditional pension. What amazes me is FedEx can tell you every year what you've accrued in the plan so far and what your projected monthly payment at retirement will be, right up until they come out of the blue and say the rule changes are forcing them to terminate the plan, and people buy that. Exactly the same thing going on with Ground, telling us the marketplace has changed, that shippers are looking for cheaper alternatives. And people buy that, not thinking about all the Ground infrastructure they built, all the stations that were closed down, all the no longer needed stepvans replaced. Of course shippers want cheaper alternatives, they wanted them 15 years ago when they were paying through the nose for Express. But coworkers act like this is the new normal in the market, can't put 2+2 together that they've been played, been used, to get FedEx to this point. And what is criminal about it all is that it's not just shipping Ground that will get profits to almost double. It's our poor raises and our ridiculous portable pension plan too. They could have made plenty just shifting to Ground, but they just couldn't help themselves, they're control freaks who just had to stick it to us too just because they could. Pirates.
Route 66
Slapped Upside-da-Head Member
I'm quite certain that all these Groundclowns, were they sitting in our position, would be - A: not in the least bit bitter about the current situation at FedEx or - B: they'd be bitter but would have made huge, obvious inroads into organizing a union despite the enormous riptide they were swimming against...because they obviously have all the answers.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
A lot of my bitterness lies precisely in their failure to fulfill obligations. I, and many others, made life and career decisions based on what was promised. Beyond a certain age, it isn't easy to just leave and start over elsewhere. I turned-down many other opportunities, which would have been much better choices if I had only known that FedEx was going to pull the rug out from underneath us. I'm certain may others fall into the same category.
The Ground clowns don't understand this, and never will. Fred made promises he should have kept, could have afforded to keep, but didn't. He sold every single hourly down the river, and he can rot in a 1500 degree Hell forever and completely deserve it.
There you go, MFE. You got it. Fred could have afforded to keep his promises and didn't. That is why you and others are pissed. It has nothing to do with Ground. It was never an "either or" circumstance. Ground never did a damn thing to you. So sling your hatred at us all you want. When we get right downn to the facts, you and I know your anger is at Fred and Fred alone. Us "Ground clowns" aren't eating your lunch. Fred just isn't paying it out. But if it makes you feel better to hate Ground and come up with convoluted scenarios in which you are being victimized by Ground's existence feel free. It simply isn't true.
I do have a side question.
You guys always say that Express built Groun's infrastructure. If that is true, is it also true that Ground is buying you guys all new planes now? Is money for infrastructure and vehicles all out of the same corporate fund? Something doesn't see quite right about the assertions.
You guys always say that Express built Groun's infrastructure. If that is true, is it also true that Ground is buying you guys all new planes now? Is money for infrastructure and vehicles all out of the same corporate fund? Something doesn't see quite right about the assertions.
Goldilocks
Well-Known Member
And this is how most Senior employees feel about what Fred has done....
thedownhillEXPRESS
Well-Known Member
But Express is still making money, it is self sufficient.
Ground needed huge initial and continuing investment until it became the monster it is now.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
...and these are certainly justified but, as bbsam so aptly pointed out, why lash out at Ground for something they had nothing to do with?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
If you think they are big now you ain't seen nothing yet.
and I don't deny that. But RPS was profitable when Fred bought it. It became even more so with alot of Ground profit being reinvested back into its infrastructure as well. To suggest that Express came along and save a fledgling Ground network from certain extinction is pure fallacy.
RPS wasn't nearly as big as Ground is now. Fred bought an idea, a framework. And while it's more profitable per pkg the bulk of the business is still overnight. What they did was while building Ground they had to show profit for Wall Street so they took from us to keep profits up. Ground is catching up in profits, but it's this latest move towards Ground that they've been working towards for years that's really starting to cannibalize Express. I've met plenty of decent Ground people, they're just trying to get by like the rest of us. It's this whole concept of holding labor costs down so that a relative few can do extraordinarily well while looking us in the eye and telling us how much FedEx cares about us and our future that has us upset. Not expecting UPS pay, just enough to have some choices. This is a hustle business, not a casual job. We are out in all kinds of weather, we have to run a sort, we have to be flexible on our start times, we can never really plan for anything outside of work that starts close to the end of our day, we have to deal with dangerous goods and international, we have to manage our rts around various commitments, we have to be willing at the drop of a hat to take on freight in other areas we aren't familiar with, to work long hours around holidays, we have to give and give and in return we get squat for raises, our pension plan terminated, our healthcare premiums raised, and more and more demands to find ways to be more productive, further reducing our pay. And now lopping off a big chunk of our volume so that it's hard to get a full 40, let alone overtime. They in effect have taken back most of the little raises they gave us in the last 5 years, putting us further behind the eight ball as inflation marches on. It's not that Ground people are terrible, etc, it's being told we'd top out in 7 or 8 years, that we have a future, when all along they had no intention to provide a better life for us, just use us to cash in.
I understand and respect your position, van. What I don't see is Ground itself being the focus of the problem that some have portrayed. That is a fight between labor and corporations or a distressing situation in which nobody in the business or political world care about the middle class.
northbound
Well-Known Member
Express is all employees right? Where the friend is your union? Don't blame rla blah blah blah
The problem concerning you is you are doing well helping FedEx achieve it's goals. Goals that are coming at Express couriers' expense. Goals that have many thousands of Ground drivers working at not much above the poverty line if they have a family. Goals that have dragged many couriers down from the middle class while still having middle class obligations. I don't mean this personally, but Ground contractors are a bit like the Jewish police force that helped the Nazis maintain order at the death camps in exchange for better treatment for themselves. I know that's a terrible sounding analogy but in terms of structure I think it's accurate. Watched Schindler's List awhile back and it struck me that way. Most Jews went meekly to their death while all their possessions were confiscated by the Nazis. And their possessions were sorted by value by other Jews while Jews with clubs kept them in line and herded them to their death. Obviously not quite the same but you get the idea.
Well it's not that extreme but any time you have those in power exploiting large groups of people, those who do well assisting those in power are going to be resented by those who's lives are becoming more and more a struggle just to get by. Look at the Soviet Union. Multiple families sharing apartments. Long lines because a store had some bread or cheese that day. People drinking themselves to death because life was so bleak. And yet those that helped the power structure, like elite athletes who helped prop up an image of Soviets, given their own apartments, cars, clothes, food, special privileges. Think the average citizen resented that? No matter the system, if the bulk of the people are struggling while those who help the system do well, the ones doing well will always be resented by many. That's the backlash you are getting here. Might not be what you want to hear, but it's a theory.
Well, van, you may as well add the Republican party, the US Chamber of Commerce and alot of conservative Democrats in your ridiculous list of Nazi sympathizers. Anyone not willing to "take a bullet" to form a union as well. The sheeple, if you will. Know any of them?
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
I can't look inside Smith's evil pea brain, but he absolutely sold us out in order to buy Ground and make it his main focus. I'm not sure where your irrational argument here comes from, but I don't feel "victimized" by the existence of Ground because it does have a niche in the overall transportation market, which gives FedEx (a systems integrator), a ground presence, which is necessary.
My objection with Ground has always been it's exploitative nature, which I won't go into again, since it's been explained relentlessly on BC. It seems like you need to go back and take a refresher course for your amateur psychology degree, because you're barking up the wrong tree...again.
