FedEx Ground

[59 Dano]

The multi decade decline in U.S. birth rates calls into question the claim that there is and will continue to be an adequate supply of young workers especially the number willing to go out there and drag crates around for scraps and tips.

Bacha with his obligatory "peak cheap labor" comment.

 

[vantexan]

Who's being exploited? HOW are they being exploited when, as you point out in your post, people aren't willing to work for the lower pay?

Do you even know what a market is or how it works?

Well aware. But the fact is for the upper income levels to be paid well there has to be an underclass willing to work for less. Socialism in it's pure form eventually falls apart. But do you know why we are constantly dealing with people wanting to give it a try? Of course you know why. Those in power are constantly pushing the low income people to accept less and produce more. Capitalism is by nature exploitive. And with the coronavirus wrecking our economy it most likely will get more exploitive. And lead to a greater push for socialism. I'm not pushing for socialism. I just wish those in charge would learn a little from less exploitive societies and share the wealth a bit more. You can blame those who make less on their personal failings all you want but for you and others to make better pay you have to depend on many to be willing to accept less. Otherwise your business model doesn't work.

 

[59 Dano]

Yup, because we all know all those truck and van drivers are "airline" employees. If you want to say we're under the RLA because our business is essential to the well being and security of the country fine. But most Express employees will never set foot in an airplane so let's not kid ourselves.

Express employees are under the RLA because the RLA covers the employees of airlines and employees of companies who primarily serve airlines.

 

[vantexan]

Express employees are under the RLA because the RLA covers the employees of airlines and employees of companies who primarily serve airlines.

No, airlines were included because they were deemed essential to the security and economic well being of the nation. Fred got Express ruled to be an airline so that it could be included under the RLA and thus make it very difficult to be unionized. Wasn't always seen as an airline but lobbying Congressmen works wonders.

 

[59 Dano]

Well aware. But the fact is for the upper income levels to be paid well there has to be an underclass willing to work for less. Socialism in it's pure form eventually falls apart. But do you know why we are constantly dealing with people wanting to give it a try? Of course you know why. Those in power are constantly pushing the low income people to accept less and produce more. Capitalism is by nature exploitive. And with the coronavirus wrecking our economy it most likely will get more exploitive. And lead to a greater push for socialism. I'm not pushing for socialism. I just wish those in charge would learn a little from less exploitive societies and share the wealth a bit more. You can blame those who make less on their personal failings all you want but for you and others to make better pay you have to depend on many to be willing to accept less. Otherwise your business model doesn't work.

To say that capitalism is exploitive is to either not know the definition of exploitive, capitalism, or both.

 

[vantexan]

To say that capitalism is exploitive is to either not know the definition of exploitive, capitalism, or both.

Or you're in denial. Capitalism feeds, clothes, houses the most people. It works. But then there's dog eat dog Darwinian capitalism. Forcing people to live paycheck to paycheck so that you can have that nice home, car, whatever, is exploitive. And telling them they're where they're at because they don't have the wherewithal you and others like you have just fuels the class envy and leads to the rise of various "isms". Surely you comprehend that, don't you?

 

[59 Dano]

No, airlines were included because they were deemed essential to the security and economic well being of the nation. Fred got Express ruled to be an airline so that it could be included under the RLA and thus make it very difficult to be unionized. Wasn't always seen as an airline but lobbying Congressmen works wonders.

Express has been covered under the RLA since its inception in 1973 and the NLRB has automatically referred all Express complaints to the National Mediation Board (the agency that handles RLA labor issues) as far back as 1978.

 

[vantexan]

Express has been covered under the RLA since its inception in 1973 and the NLRB has automatically referred all Express complaints to the National Mediation Board (the agency that handles RLA labor issues) as far back as 1978.

You sure about that? I seem to recall a ruling in the 90's.

 

[59 Dano]

Or you're in denial. Capitalism feeds, clothes, houses, the most people. It works. But then there's dog eat dog Darwinian capitalism. Forcing people to live paycheck to paycheck so that you can have that nice home, car, whatever, is exploitive.
And telling them they're where they're at because they don't have the wherewithal you and others like you have just fuels the class envy and leads to the rise of various "isms". Surely you comprehend that, don't you?

When I was younger and working for peanuts in radio and barely scraping by, I decided that I didn't want to be working for peanuts in an industry that I'd probably never see any real success in and scraping by for the rest of my life. I found something else to do.

You see capitalism as something that holds people back. I see capitalism as something that gave me the opportunity to leave a cheap line of work that I was all but doomed to fail in for something better.

 

[59 Dano]

You sure about that? I seem to recall a ruling in the 90's.

Ruling by whom?

 

[vantexan]

When I was younger and working for peanuts in radio and barely scraping by, I decided that I didn't want to be working for peanuts in an industry that I'd probably never see any real success in and scraping by for the rest of my life. I found something else to do.

You see capitalism as something that holds people back. I see capitalism as something that gave me the opportunity to leave a cheap line of work that I was all but doomed to fail in for something better.

No, I don't see capitalism as something that holds people back. I see the people in charge making decisions that limits opportunity and reduces the middle class. Good for you that you worked yourself into a better position. There's only so many of such positions to go around. Do you think the company you work for wants to see everyone do the same? They need the bulk of the employees to settle for less so that they can increase profits and the stock's price. They can't force anyone to stay with the company, but doesn't really matter because across the board nationwide there's plenty of opportunity to be a wage slave, limited opportunities to do better. You need people to accept less so that you can have your job. Be thankful.

 

[AB831]

When I was younger and working for peanuts in radio and barely scraping by, I decided that I didn't want to be working for peanuts in an industry that I'd probably never see any real success in and scraping by for the rest of my life. I found something else to do.

You see capitalism as something that holds people back. I see capitalism as something that gave me the opportunity to leave a cheap line of work that I was all but doomed to fail in for something better.

You're actually 100% right. If you're working a low income job that you hate, there are plenty of opportunities to find something else. They might require a lot of extraordinary effort and be time consuming, but if you refuse to lose, you will more than likely not come up empty handed. Lots of fast food jobs offer educational assistance and/or scholarships. It will be hard as hell and your social life will probably take a big hit for awhile, but it is possible to do better. It's just a matter of wanting it badly enough and utilizing the opportunities as they come up.

 

[bacha29]

Bacha with his obligatory "peak cheap labor" comment.

You're a numbers guy. Simply go check out the birth rate numbers. Then again the only numbers you acknowledge are the ones in which you find comfort and serve to keep you in your sheltered and delusional little world.

 

[vantexan]

Express has been covered under the RLA since its inception in 1973 and the NLRB has automatically referred all Express complaints to the National Mediation Board (the agency that handles RLA labor issues) as far back as 1978.

Mea culpa, you're right on that. Although website I looked up said 1971.

 

[59 Dano]

No, I don't see capitalism as something that holds people back. I see the people in charge making decisions that limits opportunity and reduces the middle class. Good for you that you worked yourself into a better position. There's only so many of such positions to go around. Do you think the company you work for wants to see everyone do the same? They need the bulk of the employees to settle for less so that they can increase profits and the stock's price.

Guess what! Some people want to punch in, work 8 hours at jobs that don't require a high degree of responsibility and aren't all that hard, punch out, and not have to think about work for the next 16 hours. The money isn't great but "My time outside of work is more important."

They can't force anyone to stay with the company, but doesn't really matter because across the board nationwide there's plenty of opportunity to be a wage slave, limited opportunities to do better. You need people to accept less so that you can have your job. Be thankful.

The opportunities are there. It's an issue of looking for them and taking them.

 

[59 Dano]

You're a numbers guy. Simply go check out the birth rate numbers. Then again the only numbers you acknowledge are the ones in which you find comfort and serve to keep you in your sheltered and delusional little world.

You know what the numbers are, you just never know what they mean.

 

[floridays]

You know what the numbers are, you just never know what they mean.

You think you can think, you never do.

 

[vantexan]

Guess what! Some people want to punch in, work 8 hours at jobs that don't require a high degree of responsibility and aren't all that hard, punch out, and not have to think about work for the next 16 hours. The money isn't great but "My time outside of work is more important."



The opportunities are there. It's an issue of looking for them and taking them.

So you're of the opinion that couriers in general just want a minimal effort job so that they can go have fun in their off hours? Not too concerned about meeting their mortgage and car payments? Educating their kids? Retiring decently? Have a little something extra for a vacation or putting a new roof on the house? Only those who get the better pay up the ladder are concerned with such things? The courier position has the most employees by far. Think they're just a bunch of overgrown kids who want to party all the time? Do you salve your conscience by thinking they don't deserve anymore than they're getting? You're a Christian. All those years the company was lying about how soon we would top out...did that bother you at all? I've defended the company to a point as far as their ability to pay UPS comparable pay and benefits. But they're highly dishonest with their employees and that sir smacks of exploitation. They made a huge improvement with their new pay plan but are they going to stick with it or is it just another bunch of lies? Are they going to stick with their already low quality pension plan or are they going to reneg on that too? Are they even going to give employees enough hours for them to fund their 401k's or are they going to give Ground so much freight that overtime is a thing of the past and the 35 hour guarantee might soon follow? All the while telling employees better times are just around the corner, hang in there because we still need you the many to sacrifice for us management types so that we can have a much better life than you'll ever have. And the couriers will just have to like it because us managers deserve more than you because we're much more clever. Don't think we are? Well that's why you're just a courier.

 

[59 Dano]

You think you can think, you never do.

Read it here first.

 

[59 Dano]

So you're of the opinion that couriers in general just want a minimal effort job so that they can go have fun in their off hours? Not too concerned about meeting their mortgage and car payments? Educating their kids? Retiring decently? Have a little something extra for a vacation or putting a new roof on the house? Only those who get the better pay up the ladder are concerned with such things?

Couriers know what the job is and what it pays. Same goes for any other job anywhere else. When enough people think that it doesn't pay enough, and staffing becomes a serious issue, then they'll do something about the pay.

I've never taken a job and been told that my compensation would take care of my mortgage, car payments, kids' education, new roofs - they said "Here's the job and here's what it pays. Up to you."

The courier position has the most employees by far. Think they're just a bunch of overgrown kids who want to party all the time Do you salve your conscience by thinking they don't deserve anymore than they're getting? You're a Christian. All those years the company was lying about how soon we would top out...did that bother you at all?

What?

I've defended the company to a point as far as their ability to pay UPS comparable pay and benefits. But they're highly dishonest with their employees and that sir smacks of exploitation. They made a huge improvement with their new pay plan but are they going to stick with it or is it just another bunch of lies? Are they going to stick with their already low quality pension plan or are they going to reneg on that too? Are they even going to give employees enough hours for them to fund their 401k's or are they going to give Ground so much freight that overtime is a thing of the past and the 35 hour guarantee might soon follow? All the while telling employees better times are just around the corner, hang in there because we still need you the many to sacrifice for us management types so that we can have a much better life than you'll ever have. And the couriers will just have to like it because us managers deserve more than you because we're much more clever. Don't think we are? Well that's why you're just a courier.

Or the couriers can decide that they're not going to be exploited and the new pay plan is a bunch of lies and the pension sucks and they're tired of not getting enough hours to fund their 401ks and they don't like Ground getting Express freight and not believing that better times are just around the corner and they don't want managers to have better lives and don't believe they're more clever... and decide they've had enough of Express and THEY'LL GO TO WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE.

See how that works?