browniehound
Well-Known Member
Hey Bubblehead. Thanks for introducing and describing yourself. Its great that you're honest and don't pretend that you care about anyone else's job except your own,
Browniehound
Has anyone noticed stewards becoming weak all of a sudden?
- Thread starter BIGBROWNLONGHORN
- Start date
Hey Bubblehead. Thanks for introducing and describing yourself. Its great that you're honest and don't pretend that you care about anyone else's job except your own,
Browniehound
browniehound
Well-Known Member
Asking for less than a 9.5 hour day is not strangling the company. However demanding it through a grievence gives the impression of a spoiled cry baby when 10% of the nation's workforce in unemployed.
Are you serious about this over 9.5 thing??
God help us.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
You're right, BH, asking the company to abide by a contract which they agreed to is selfish.
I see your point and agree (to a point) but I also see Bubblehead's point.
Next you'll be saying we should be happy we have a job.
I see your point and agree (to a point) but I also see Bubblehead's point.
Next you'll be saying we should be happy we have a job.
705red
Browncafe Steward
Its ok to suck it up and work over 9.5 without any penalty because the rest of the country is out of work? What happens if you get laid off and a sup does your work would you file then? Or is it ok that the sup still has a job in this economy right now?
farmerbrown
Active Member
9.5QUOTE=tieguy;569877]Like I said I think its great you still have a few thriving companies out there to practice your "steward stuff" on.
I wonder if the guys in the bread lines worry about manipulating contract language. [/QUOTE]
Just because the 9.5 language is suddenly not advantageous to the company does not mean it can be ignored. Do you actually believe that the petty bullying that comes to drivers once they file a 9.5 is justified because of economics?
I wonder if the guys in the bread lines worry about manipulating contract language. [/QUOTE]
Just because the 9.5 language is suddenly not advantageous to the company does not mean it can be ignored. Do you actually believe that the petty bullying that comes to drivers once they file a 9.5 is justified because of economics?
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Tie and Brownie
I understand the thinking behind your respective posts. It is a tough time for sure. And some drivers dont mind the extra time.
But some do. And it is not a manipulation of the contract language for that driver to ask to have his hours lowered. It is in the contract, language that you helped write (truth be known, you wrote it and the teamsters agreed.)
In exchange for that language, we conceded items of value to UPS. That is the way contract language is done. You give us things, you get things in return that you want.
We gave you what you wanted in return for the 9.5 language. But all of a sudden, we are manipulating the contract when we ask for what you agreed to?
Please, do not insult the readership in this way.
If you are not going to honor your agreement, then give us back what we gave you in exchange for the 9.5 language.
You cant have it both ways.
d
browniehound
Well-Known Member
Yes, I think we should be happy we have a job. That is the whole crux of my argument. Unemployement is at its highest since 1983. Millions of people that want to work, can't. You have plenty of it and you're crying.
Its about survival and feeding your family. So you're a little over worked?
From my up-bringing, it means its time to man-up.
Spew your contractual rights to somebody who lived through the great depression and they'll think you're a spoiled little sissy that has NO IDEA have great you have it now.
trplnkl
555
The only thing I can think of is you have lost your freaking mind.
Yes unemployment is at it's highest level in decades, but some of those people are UPS people that have lost their jobs due to the company's manipulation of the contract by working so many over 9.5.
Brownie, when you work an 11 hour day, that is 1.5 hours of someone's day that now is not getting to work at all, making them part of the unemployed. Can you not see this?
Tell me how it is being a spoiled little sissy to want to try to help your fellow worker that isn't getting to work at all? We have men and women laid off, not making a pay check period while higher seniority people are working OVERTIME hours that could be spread out amongst more people. I guess only 20+ year drivers have a right to feel happy they have a job. I guess that from your upbringing, it OK to man up and grab some other person's hours that would allow them to feed their families?
Spew your "at least I have a job" ideas to laid off UPS employees and they'll think you are the most selfish sissy that ever lived.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
I would like to think that there is more than luck involved in the fact that I have a job. I would also like to think that I have a strong work ethic.
No one is complaining about doing the job. The point being discussed here is a blatant violation of the contract while fellow employees are either working on the inside or not working at all.
BH, I am fully aware of the exceptional wage and benefit package that I enjoy. Not a day goes by that I am not asked if we are hiring. My income far exceeds the average for my area.
This issue does not personally affect me as I can't recall the last time I worked past 9.5 but I do have several co-workers who do and also have several co-workers who could use more hours. We are simply asking UPS to honor the contract which, as d said, they wrote and we basically nodded yes.
BH, I do hope things turn around for you but please don't let your misfortune cloud your judgement. Dave.
bubsdad
"Hang in there!"
I mean no disrespect but your work ethic has nothing to do with it. Your seniority does. That is your union benefit. If the company could choose from top to bottom who works and disregard seniority, there would be a different conversation.
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MechanicForBrown
Prblm found,part on order
upstate, where did the red sox avitar go?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
It's on the bench for now. 5 1/2 games back.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
Suggesting that the company no longer needs to abide by the 9.5 wording in the contract because the economy is in a slump is a joke. And, to say that somehow it's wrong to file a grievance against the company if they choose to violate the contract is just as crazy. Would the company accept the poor economy as an excuse if I choose to violate the terms of the contract. I am held accountable to obey all of the terms of the contract, and UPS is equally obligated. If some of the hard nosed center manager's choose to blame the economy and violate these provisions, then a grievance should follow.
The stewards can do nothing if you won't sign the grievance book.
The stewards can do nothing if you won't sign the grievance book.
tieguy
Banned
I'm not saying you completely ignore violations of contractual language. I'm saying you recognize the economic conditions this company is presently under. Maybe appreciate the point that this company is surviving when many large unsinkable companies have sunk. Maybe keep that in the back of your mind as you decide where you're drawing the line.
Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
Tie, the 9.5 issue isn't where the line is drawn. It's not even nearby. If the company's strategy for business development in a recession economy is to violate the 9.5 language of the contract, we need to find some new managers.
What you are saying is that profits are harder to come by now, so, we can just ignor the contract at the drivers' expense, to maximize profits.
That's an old song, tie. I can think of a dozen ways to save more money and attract more business, but, in reality, management doesn't want to hear about them.
What you are saying is that profits are harder to come by now, so, we can just ignor the contract at the drivers' expense, to maximize profits.
That's an old song, tie. I can think of a dozen ways to save more money and attract more business, but, in reality, management doesn't want to hear about them.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Tie
I understand managements commitment to keeping the man hours per stop/package down to a minimum. We all are trying to work hard to keep UPS from sinking.
The problem is that you were doing business as usual two years ago. Five and ten years ago. So basically, outside of putting more work per car, relooping to cut areas, treating business sections of a route no differently than a residential area when it comes to cut/add, all these things were done to bolster the bottom line. And as time goes on, more and more is done to make the bottom line more solid.
Maybe its time to go to a four day week, if you want us to work 10-12 hours a day. I dont know.
But what I do know is that you agreed the last contract to reduce paid days as requested. In some centers, they are at least trying. I know there will be those weeks and days that are beyond control. But not day after day.
I remember before micro management from on high, our center manager would be there at the end of the PCM. He would say "Guys, its Friday. They wanted me to cut the splits, but I left them in. Do your best to bring it in for me please". Know what? Most of the time it worked. Drivers brought it in on Friday night, cause they knew they would have been slammed had the splits been cut.
The over all center cost might have been a few bucks more, but over all, there was not a significant cost that would have been offset by cutting those routes.
One more thought before I finish.
UPS has teamsters working for them. And I like to use the horse analogy.
You can take a horse and break it down. Take all the spirit, all the spring to the step, all the fire that comes with doing a job better than anyone else. Take that "game" from that horse, and you will have an animal that will do the basics of what they are told, but nothing else.
There is no incentive to work harder, faster, safer, smarter etc etc. You have taken all that away. You (UPS) have reduced a workforce second to none in the world to a bunch of broken horses pulling a wagon along the same trail over and over again. At the end of the day, put them up, and do it again the next day. A mindless routine that will never change.
Pretty soon, the horse forgets its potential. There is no reason to excel.
d
I understand managements commitment to keeping the man hours per stop/package down to a minimum. We all are trying to work hard to keep UPS from sinking.
The problem is that you were doing business as usual two years ago. Five and ten years ago. So basically, outside of putting more work per car, relooping to cut areas, treating business sections of a route no differently than a residential area when it comes to cut/add, all these things were done to bolster the bottom line. And as time goes on, more and more is done to make the bottom line more solid.
Maybe its time to go to a four day week, if you want us to work 10-12 hours a day. I dont know.
But what I do know is that you agreed the last contract to reduce paid days as requested. In some centers, they are at least trying. I know there will be those weeks and days that are beyond control. But not day after day.
I remember before micro management from on high, our center manager would be there at the end of the PCM. He would say "Guys, its Friday. They wanted me to cut the splits, but I left them in. Do your best to bring it in for me please". Know what? Most of the time it worked. Drivers brought it in on Friday night, cause they knew they would have been slammed had the splits been cut.
The over all center cost might have been a few bucks more, but over all, there was not a significant cost that would have been offset by cutting those routes.
One more thought before I finish.
UPS has teamsters working for them. And I like to use the horse analogy.
You can take a horse and break it down. Take all the spirit, all the spring to the step, all the fire that comes with doing a job better than anyone else. Take that "game" from that horse, and you will have an animal that will do the basics of what they are told, but nothing else.
There is no incentive to work harder, faster, safer, smarter etc etc. You have taken all that away. You (UPS) have reduced a workforce second to none in the world to a bunch of broken horses pulling a wagon along the same trail over and over again. At the end of the day, put them up, and do it again the next day. A mindless routine that will never change.
Pretty soon, the horse forgets its potential. There is no reason to excel.
d
