Hazzard pay

[Socrates]

What would the real @Socrates think about your mumbo jumbo

I think, if anyone, YOU would be ridiculed because you aren't offering any arguments - just snide comments. You refuse to engage, at all. You think just being dismissive is, in and of itself, an argument. It's not. You have nothing. Your revolver has 0 bullets.

 

[burrheadd]

I think, if anyone, YOU would be ridiculed because you aren't offering any arguments - just snide comments. You refuse to engage, at all. You think just being dismissive is, in and of itself, an argument. It's not. You have nothing. Your revolver has 0 bullets.

 

[Socrates]

I am right here.

Then explain WHY the 9.5 list is called the 9.5 list instead of the 8.5 list, or the 8.0 list. Go ahead, I'm all ears. I can't wait to see your explanation WHY a driver should simultaneously EXPECT to work 45-50 hours per week, but also, shouldn't budget for any more than 40, no matter what.

While we're being pedants, you can also explain WHY 40 hours and not 30. Hell, why not budget for 20 or even 15 hours? That would ensure you never live above your means. Right?

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

UPS is largely recession-proof, lad.

Take a look at the seniority list numbers around 2008 and the years following, then get back to me about that stupid post.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I think, if anyone, YOU would be ridiculed because you aren't offering any arguments - just snide comments. You refuse to engage, at all. You think just being dismissive is, in and of itself, an argument. It's not. You have nothing. Your revolver has 0 bullets.

Nothing wrong with shooting blanks-----makes post-divorce dating much more fun!

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Then explain WHY the 9.5 list is called the 9.5 list instead of the 8.5 list, or the 8.0 list. Go ahead, I'm all ears. I can't wait to see your explanation WHY a driver should simultaneously EXPECT to work 45-50 hours per week, but also, shouldn't budget for any more than 40, no matter what.

While we're being pedants, you can also explain WHY 40 hours and not 30. Hell, why not budget for 20 or even 15 hours? That would ensure you never live above your means. Right?

Budgeting based on 40 has no bearing on the number of hours one works; in fact, it just means that there will be more gravy once the bills are paid.

 

[burrheadd]

The

Do you want drivers to get more sleep, have less stress, be able to afford vitamins and supplements and masks/gloves/air purifiers/etc etc

Do you seriously think ups gives 2 s about any of that.
If you do you’re a bigger fool than I thought

 

[Socrates]

$10 says you're voting for this guy

 

[burrheadd]

$10 says you're voting for this guy

Maybe, could he be any worse than the other dip s

 

[Socrates]

Budgeting based on 40 has no bearing on the number of hours one works; in fact, it just means that there will be more gravy once the bills are paid.

Budgeting and Expectations are largely synonymous concepts. Most people already CAN pay all their bills with 40 or less hours, and they allocate the rest to Savings.

But if your hours (overtime, expecially) get cut by what amounts to $200-300/week, it makes it much more likely you will have to consider discontinuing your 401k/stock contributions because you need funding that will be more readily available in a crisis. Anyone who has tried to get a 401k loan or sell UPS Stock knows what a paperwork nightmare it is, and if SHTF, it's going to take even longer (and be much less profitable) than it would have been to just keep cash in the first place.

Please, keep going though. You're so very talkative to other folks when you're in the catbird seat and can be condescending to them. Not very enjoyable from the opposite position, now is it?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

401k loans are made based upon your balance, not your contributions, and should only be taken as a last resort.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Best post in a while!

 

[Old Man Jingles]

401k loans are made based upon your balance, not your contributions, and should only be taken as a last resort.

Especially at this time with the market so low.
They take out the funds that you borrow and those funds will not enjoy the market upturn when it does rebound.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

That being said, one of the provisions of this most recent bailout was the elimination of the 10% penalty for early withdrawal (under 59 1/2) from retirement plans.

 

[Socrates]

401k loans are made based upon your balance, not your contributions, and should only be taken as a last resort.

I would think rioting in the streets and the complete break-down of society would be considered 'a last resort'.

Your original objection was to people budgeting for 45 hours - let's not stray from that. Why did you not explain why a worker should simultaneously EXPECT to work 45-50 hours - as we all know from the first DAY we start driving - but not budget for that? I think we all deserve an explanation that goes beyond mumbling about 'gravy'.

When hours get cut, your cushioning gets cut. How would you like it if someone removed all the airbags in your car and told you "if you drove safely, you wouldn't need to worry about airbags"? Some people enjoy their overtime, not so they can rush out buy fancy toys, but so they can 'buy' themselves more days off, or invest more, or retire sooner. Working four 10s pays much better than working five 8s.

If you don't think UPS can afford Hazard Pay, then say so. Make the argument. Just be aware that the BOTH of us know you will be lying if you take that position, and I will happily expose you and anyone who agrees with you. And I'll do it while remaining a right-leaning Capitalist who despises Left-Authoritarian ideology.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Budget based on 40 and the rest is gravy.

 

[Indecisi0n]

In a way.....Yes. People have mortgages, people have families, finances are largely already accounted for. UPS doesn't want the fall-out of drivers out working 12-hour days, so many routes are being cut down to size, resulting in a loss of overtime for some drivers.

Do you want drivers to get more sleep, have less stress, be able to afford vitamins and supplements and masks/gloves/air purifiers/etc etc? Then give them a higher salary while at the same time, making it very clear that they are expecting us to "do our part" to sleep more, cut back on smoking/alcohol, try to eat healthier, etc. It would, of course, be unenforceable but it would still show they're at least trying to do their part.

This is the dumbest argument thus far.

 

[Socrates]

Can you imagine the fall-out if Millions of Americans (who are stuck at home, btw) started looking into UPS's finances, found out they made BILLIONS (with a B) in profits last year, and were laying off workers by the thousands (and cancelling their health insurance), not because profits were down, but because they wanted to make their balance sheet look better? They would be absolutely pilloried on Social Media and, eventually, Leftist MSM media like CBS, CNN, and so on. UPS has little choice right now but to work every single warm body available - even if it means adding routes that aren't really needed.

This also has negative effects: it means your average 5-15 year vet, who doesn't sign up for the 9.5 because he doesn't mind helping other drivers, closing out UPS stores, shagging misloads, etc, is now routinely coming in under 45 hours per week. This has deleterious effects whether you and others want to recognize it or not. Your fixed expenses stay the same, or mostly the same (mortgage, electricity etc); but it will make some folks (like yours truly) think about cutting back on foods/supplements/etc. Many of us are already missing out on things like Chiro visits, massages, acupuncture, gym/fitness, and other services we take advantage of to help us unwind, relax, heal, and rest up for the next day at work. Once those businesses go back to work - but our finances remain stagnant - we may not be able to integrate those things back into our schedules as easily as we once did, especially with our stock portfolios taking a big hit.

But I'm going to stop typing paragraphs because, why bother. This forum has shown to be just incredibly low-effort meme-posting, nobody here has the courage to actually engage in debate. It's all just everyone friend-posting and inside jokes and other crap. I knew I should have just stayed logged out. Silly me for thinking I could actually find someone to match me intellectually, point for point, on a UPS website of all places. I always knew being a UPS Driver was beneath me, but I never realized it was this far beneath me.

 

[Dirk Digler]

Take a look at the seniority list numbers around 2008 and the years following, then get back to me about that stupid post.

I read that post and thought the very same thing. Whoever wrote that post hasn’t been in the workforce long enough to of seen bad times in the past.

 

[Over70irregs]

I wanna say something but I’m lost.

Can you imagine the fall-out if Millions of Americans (who are stuck at home, btw) started looking into UPS's finances, found out they made BILLIONS (with a B) in profits last year, and were laying off workers by the thousands (and cancelling their health insurance), not because profits were down, but because they wanted to make their balance sheet look better? They would be absolutely pilloried on Social Media and, eventually, Leftist MSM media like CBS, CNN, and so on. UPS has little choice right now but to work every single warm body available - even if it means adding routes that aren't really needed.

This also has negative effects: it means your average 5-15 year vet, who doesn't sign up for the 9.5 because he doesn't mind helping other drivers, closing out UPS stores, shagging misloads, etc, is now routinely coming in under 45 hours per week. This has deleterious effects whether you and others want to recognize it or not. Your fixed expenses stay the same, or mostly the same (mortgage, electricity etc); but it will make some folks (like yours truly) think about cutting back on foods/supplements/etc. Many of us are already missing out on things like Chiro visits, massages, acupuncture, gym/fitness, and other services we take advantage of to help us unwind, relax, heal, and rest up for the next day at work. Once those businesses go back to work - but our finances remain stagnant - we may not be able to integrate those things back into our schedules as easily as we once did, especially with our stock portfolios taking a big hit.

But I'm going to stop typing paragraphs because, why bother. This forum has shown to be just incredibly low-effort meme-posting, nobody here has the courage to actually engage in debate. It's all just everyone friend-posting and inside jokes and other crap. I knew I should have just stayed logged out. Silly me for thinking I could actually find someone to match me intellectually, point for point, on a UPS website of all places. I always knew being a UPS Driver was beneath me, but I never realized it was this far beneath me.

Possibly condense your points or ideas. Allow some of the fluff to filter out. After while the starters will roll through.