New union contract - package handlers

[Bubblehead]

I will have to disagree with your opinion, that it's an embarrassment.

And, refer you to this thread;


Automation? Good/Bad


It's a generational problem, without being able to get a work force.

10 years ago.... the company discharged hub people for using their phone

while on the clock. Now, they can't get them in the door without them.


Where does the problem really lie ?

Technology.. poor parenting.. the American culture in general ?

You didn't sign this post....


....so I'm not sure we can consider it genuine???




~Bbbl~™

 

[Boku41]

I preloaded for 3 years, then drove package car for 17. A death in the family caused me to quit for 8 years. Now I am back preloading for the last 15 months. I was making $9/hr plus incentive for loading extra trucks in 1989. Now I am making $11/hr with no extra incentive. Do I think preloaders should make the same as drivers? No way. Do I think driving is harder than preloading? No way. Any driver that thinks they are working harder than preloaders are just lying to themselves, and it really isn't that much more skilled. What it all boils down to is that unless there is a significant pay raise for new part-timers (not the ones that have been there for 15+ years), there will continue to be massive turnover and terrible loads. UPS doesn't care as much about the loads as they used to, especially packages left in the building. Higher pay and treat the preloaders better instead of beating them down mentally and physically. (I load an industrial area and the weight of the packages takes a toll on most of the loaders that rotate through here.)

 

[PT Car Washer]

that rotate through here.)

Key phrase "rotate through here". Sometimes on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis. The only employees my building can count on showing up everyday are the 2/3 Art 22.3's and the career PTers making $30+/hr. But UPS cannot afford to increase starting PT wages?

 

[HockFaraday]

It's a generational problem, without being able to get a work force.

No, it's a problem of my already paltry wages being effectively garnished by a union that doesn't see my voice as worth listening to because of my "part-time" status or my seniority.

Where does the problem really lie ?

Technology.. poor parenting.. the American culture in general ?

I apologize if I believe I should be making more than minimum wage for what I do: a physically demanding job that carries a significant risk of injury and also requires specialized training to safely operate equipment around aircraft. And I also apologize if I believe that I should also have the opportunity to receive the same benefits my co-workers receive without waiting an arbitrary amount of time. I guess you can say I'm "spoiled" because I feel that an honest day's work should come with an honest day's pay.

 

[burrheadd]

No, it's a problem of my already paltry wages being effectively garnished by a union that doesn't see my voice as worth listening to because of my "part-time" status or my seniority.



I apologize if I believe I should be making more than minimum wage for what I do: a physically demanding job that carries a significant risk of injury and also requires specialized training to safely operate equipment around aircraft. And I also apologize if I believe that I should also have the opportunity to receive the same benefits my co-workers receive without waiting an arbitrary amount of time. I guess you can say I'm "spoiled" because I feel that an honest day's work should come with an honest day's pay.

So, tell us why it is you stay

Young padawan

 

[HockFaraday]

So, tell us why it is you stay

Young padawan

Funny you mention. I've actually put in my two weeks. I start a new job on Monday.

There are lots of benefits to the job I have now. I like the exercise and I get to work outside around planes. But it is impossible for me to pay my bills without taking a second job - and the hours that UPS demands of me make taking a second job that isn't third shift nearly impossible. So I had to find another means of employment. I'm not alone; lots of new-hires have left because the pay simply doesn't match the work being done, nor the demand for availability anywhere from 10am til 8pm. (That's not even mentioning peak.)

*EDIT* The fact that the apparent solution for new-hires is "find another job" does not bode well for either the union or the company.

 

[Bubblehead]

No, it's a problem of my already paltry wages being effectively garnished by a union that doesn't see my voice as worth listening to because of my "part-time" status or my seniority.



I apologize if I believe I should be making more than minimum wage for what I do: a physically demanding job that carries a significant risk of injury and also requires specialized training to safely operate equipment around aircraft. And I also apologize if I believe that I should also have the opportunity to receive the same benefits my co-workers receive without waiting an arbitrary amount of time. I guess you can say I'm "spoiled" because I feel that an honest day's work should come with an honest day's pay.

Funny you mention. I've actually put in my two weeks. I start a new job on Monday.

There are lots of benefits to the job I have now. I like the exercise and I get to work outside around planes. But it is impossible for me to pay my bills without taking a second job - and the hours that UPS demands of me make taking a second job that isn't third shift nearly impossible. So I had to find another means of employment. I'm not alone; lots of new-hires have left because the pay simply doesn't match the work being done, nor the demand for availability anywhere from 10am til 8pm. (That's not even mentioning peak.)

*EDIT* The fact that the apparent solution for new-hires is "find another job" does not bode well for either the union or the company.

I'm not replying to dispute anything you said, rather to get your input as to why it is an undeniable fact that part time employees at UPS do not vote on their contracts?

Do you believe that if they did, that as a majority of the workforce, they could control their own destiny to a large extent?

Tell me what you think, and I will give you my theory.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

It's a generational problem, without being able to get a work force.

So, tell us why it is you stay

Young padawan

Funny you mention. I've actually put in my two weeks. I start a new job on Monday.

Doesn't that make my point ?

But it is impossible for me to pay my bills without taking a second job

I believe that I should also have the opportunity to receive the same benefits my co-workers receive without waiting an arbitrary amount of time.

Thousands of us worked 2 jobs when we were part-time. Some of us worked

full-time jobs, in addition to UPS. And we waited our turn out of respect

for seniority. This whole mindset of wanting everything NOW is short-sighted

and a generational problem.


I'm not saying this to offend anyone.... but it is reality.

I do agree, the starting wage for part-timers needs increased.



-Bug-

 

[PT Stewie]

When I started PT I didn't even bring home what I put in the Teamster 401K per week now and I am still part time averaging 19.5 a week. If there was a different rate for air ramp people it would be taken by seniority employees. You have to do the time.
PS. I have worked under article 40 for years and had to work holidays for straight time while drivers received double. It is just the deal.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

When I started PT I didn't even bring home what I put in the Teamster 401K per week now and I am still part time averaging 19.5 a week. If there was a different rate for air ramp people it would be taken by seniority employees. You have to do the time.
PS. I have worked under article 40 for years and had to work holidays for straight time while drivers received double. It is just the deal.

@PT Stewie works under some of the crap provisions of Art 40....

And still doesn't complain. He should get some kind of Teamster Award.



-Bug-

 

[polyp]

I'm not replying to dispute anything you said, rather to get your input as to why it is an undeniable fact that part time employees at UPS do not vote on their contracts?

Part-timers tend to be young, and they tend to be poor. If they move to chase lower rents, what are the odds they update their address with the union hall? They probably don't even know that they need to. Their address is on their paycheck, and their dues are on their pay check, so it's sorted, right? I'd guess that the share of part-timers who never even see their ballots because of this is stupidly high.

Is it the whole problem? No. We all know better. But a drive by the union to make sure addresses are up-to-date would be a good, easy first step to increasing participation.

Another good step would be to have the union promote that a vote is happening. We frequently get DRIVE cookouts in front of the hub, lists of endorsed local politicians, fight right to work petitions, ect. Can't be that hard to have a guy standing there saying: "vote in the IBT election", or "vote on the contract". I've never seen that. Maybe I just called in on those days...

The blame rests on both parties here. Part-timers need to care, and the union needs to make even a minimal amount of outreach. Simply shaming part-timers for not attending meetings isn't going to endear them to the cause. If you want them to take the union seriously, reciprocate that. Don't bury our contract proposal meeting at 8 am on a saturday like my local did.

 

[HockFaraday]

Do you believe that if they did, that as a majority of the workforce, they could control their own destiny to a large extent?

Most of the part-timers here don't even know how to go about voting. It's more a matter of making sure the folks out here know that they have a voice. Outreach to the part-timers is almost non-existent.

 

[Bubblehead]

Part-timers tend to be young, and they tend to be poor. If they move to chase lower rents, what are the odds they update their address with the union hall? They probably don't even know that they need to. Their address is on their paycheck, and their dues are on their pay check, so it's sorted, right? I'd guess that the share of part-timers who never even see their ballots because of this is stupidly high.

Is it the whole problem? No. We all know better. But a drive by the union to make sure addresses are up-to-date would be a good, easy first step to increasing participation.

Another good step would be to have the union promote that a vote is happening. We frequently get DRIVE cookouts in front of the hub, lists of endorsed local politicians, fight right to work petitions, ect. Can't be that hard to have a guy standing there saying: "vote in the IBT election", or "vote on the contract". I've never seen that. Maybe I just called in on those days...

The blame rests on both parties here. Part-timers need to care, and the union needs to make even a minimal amount of outreach. Simply shaming part-timers for not attending meetings isn't going to endear them to the cause. If you want them to take the union seriously, reciprocate that. Don't bury our contract proposal meeting at 8 am on a saturday like my local did.

Most of the part-timers here don't even know how to go about voting. It's more a matter of making sure the folks out here know that they have a voice. Outreach to the part-timers is almost non-existent.

....and there it is.


It's almost like it is by design?



~Bbbl~™

 

[Bubblehead]

@PT Stewie works under some of the crap provisions of Art 40....

And still doesn't complain. He should get some kind of Teamster Award.



-Bug-

How long have these "crap provisions" existed in Article 40?


Instead of celebrating @PT Stewie as a martyr, wouldn't it be a fitting "Teamster Award" to pay that notion forward for future PT Stewie's, by flushing the "crap provisions" of Article 40 in the upcoming contract?



~Bbbl ~™

 

[PT Stewie]

Stewie will be fine just put more money in the PT pension;at the very least put the $60.00 per month from seniority date not from 2008 forward.
In all seriousness I have campaigned for the article 40 corrections for years, I even spoke to KH personally about it. All to deaf ears.

 

[Mr. Marshall]

And besides all that, 10.25 isn't a living wage in Oregon. It's disgusting how expensive rent can be for a 2 bed 1 bath. Couples who work a FT and a PT job apply for public assistance.

People say oh you have no sales tax.. yeah well property tax on my cars and state out of my paycheck is enormous. A married couple with two FT jobs at minimum wage here are the working poor.

The bennies you said you are here for are worth more than $15k which is real money UPS is paying you (just not directly). The only real to achieve real pay raises for PT employees is to allow people to opt out of benefits or into a cheaper plan.

 

[Mr. Marshall]

Stewie will be fine just put more money in the PT pension;at the very least put the $60.00 per month from seniority date not from 2008 forward.
In all seriousness I have campaigned for the article 40 corrections for years, I even spoke to KH personally about it. All to deaf ears.

I also think we have to look into killing the PT pension to raise wages for PT employees. It's one of the only jobs in the country with a PT pension and the reasonable answer is a fat 401k match. I understand the union doesn't want to do that because they are making all the money off the non-vested members but those are real dollars UPS are paying that could go into raising the starting pay.

 

[BrownMonk]

I also think we have to look into killing the PT pension to raise wages for PT employees. It's one of the only jobs in the country with a PT pension and the reasonable answer is a fat 401k match. I understand the union doesn't want to do that because they are making all the money off the non-vested members but those are real dollars UPS are paying that could go into raising the starting pay.

The Union makes no money from non vested members since the part time pension is through the Company.

 

[BrownMonk]

The bennies you said you are here for are worth more than $15k which is real money UPS is paying you (just not directly). The only real to achieve real pay raises for PT employees is to allow people to opt out of benefits or into a cheaper plan.

The health benefits are worth far more than that for a family. I'm guessing you are looking at the $15K for an individual.

 

[Inthegame]

The Union makes no money from non vested members since the part time pension is through the Company.

As a factual matter, the "union" makes no money on any pension contribution. Those moneys go to the respective jointly trusteed funds, not the "union".