Pilots - Here we go!

[dannyboy]

Susie

Of all the times for someone to ask you for a link and you not give one? What's wrong, dont have it? Thats what I thought. Called your bluff didn't he?

As for your assumption that the pilots are not easily replaced, which would be easier, replace a pilot that flies a cargo plane with one that can fly a passenger plane, when the cargo pilot is paid more? How many do you think would jump at the chance? How many are out there that are laid off just waiting for a chance? Hell, all they are feeder drivers driving different types of vehicles. Point A to point B. Just they dont have roads to follow.

Now take the feeder driver. YEah I know, they are the real backbone of the company too. But how long do you think it would take for the independents to be able to take up the slack should they all walk.

Now you need to take the lowly delivery driver. A bit harder to hire someone off the street and get them to fill the shoes without missing a beat.

OF the three, the delivery driver would be the hardest to replace and cause the most problems should they all not show up for work. The rest would cause a burp in the operations but within days would/could be overcome.

But then one more thought. Take management. IF they all walked, ....well.....well.....I dont know what would happen, but to hear them talk, it would not be good. So they would probably be the most difficult to replace of all.

d

 

[moreluck]

Last night's news mentioned that Delta Airlines could be going under.......those Delta pilots will need a new home.

 

[tieguy]

"Yes I have the address to the Pilot's forum. You would be better served to actually talk to a pilot. Surely you must know at least one. If not, go to the major airport nearest you, they fly in early in the morning nearly every day."

LOL , that may be a Suzie Classic. Why yes says suzie I talk to the pilots on a pilots forum all the time. Whats the web address you ask? Why I'm not telling you. Go talk to a pilot at a major airport in the morning. And she can't understand why she gets ripped on this board.

 

[Unregistered]

susiedriver;

Referencing your comment of....

"On top of that, four years is a long time to be in the amendable phase of a contract."

....according to the IPA's own website, the contract has only been in the "amendable" phase since December 31, 2003, and the union and the company mutually agreed to "extend Interest Based Bargaining through July 1, 2004"....after the union had sought a suspension of bargaining from 10/21/03 to January, 2003.

A long time, perhaps....but far from the "four years" you seem to claim the contract to be in the "amendable phase", I believe.

 

[susiedriver]

Susie

Of all the times for someone to ask you for a link and you not give one? What's wrong, dont have it? Thats what I thought. Called your bluff didn't he?

As for your assumption that the pilots are not easily replaced, which would be easier, replace a pilot that flies a cargo plane with one that can fly a passenger plane, when the cargo pilot is paid more? How many do you think would jump at the chance? How many are out there that are laid off just waiting for a chance? Hell, all they are feeder drivers driving different types of vehicles. Point A to point B. Just they dont have roads to follow.

danny,
I initially found the link to the pilot's forum right here at Browncafe. Do your own research. I won't give it here because the company is already planting stooges on their board, they don't need the aggravation from even more company cheerleaders.

Do you think that a pilot can just switch airlines and begin flying for a new company? Wrong. Why do you think a cargo pilot tops out at a hight rate than a legacy airline pilot? Guess what, wrong again. On top of that the pilots have a bit of a 'fraternity' thing going on, very few would risk being blackballed for the rest of their careers.

Everyone at UPS can be easily replaced, from reloaders to district managers. I've seen one of just about every position quit at peak, and the center never missed a beat, probably even less of a factor with PAS/EDD, but you have 2500 pilots walk at peak, and you have big problems.

UPS drivers are the highest paid in the industry, why not our pilots as well?

 

[susiedriver]

susiedriver;

Referencing your comment of....

"On top of that, four years is a long time to be in the amendable phase of a contract."

....according to the IPA's own website, the contract has only been in the "amendable" phase since December 31, 2003, and the union and the company mutually agreed to "extend Interest Based Bargaining through July 1, 2004"....after the union had sought a suspension of bargaining from 10/21/03 to January, 2003.

A long time, perhaps....but far from the "four years" you seem to claim the contract to be in the "amendable phase", I believe.

You are absolutely correct, mystery poster, the contact has only been amendable for two years, I believe that they have been in negotiations for nearly four years and direct negotiations for over three years. How would you like to be left hanging for a couple of years, especially if you were contemplating retiring?

 

[susiedriver]

This is a quote from the pilot's forum

As Teamsters President
James Hoffa rallied the
support of some 400
Local 89 members, he
also assured IPA leadership
that the Teamsters
are behind the pilots
efforts to obtain a much
deserved contract. In fact,
the IPA received a standing
ovation when Negotiating
Committee Member
Captain Chuck Patterson
mentioned the summer of
1997 when the IPA stood
side by side with the
Teamsters during a twoweek
strike.
The unity displayed by the Teamsters
and IPA sent a powerful message
to the Company that we were
united in our goal of fair and equitable
working agreements for every
union on UPS property, said Patterson.
After spending the evening with
Hoffa, Teamsters International Vice
President hall and Local 89
President Fred Z, Patterson
said it was clear the support for the
IPA was sincere and overwhelming.

He also says the IPA needs to be
clear about the task at hand, We
need to refocus our attention to our
goal, which is a new contract. When
we joined hands with the Teamsters,
we demonstrated what unity can do
for us and we need to acknowledge
what the lack of unity can do to us,
said Patterson.
In speaking to his members, Hoffa
said, these are exciting times as the
Teamsters work to organize more
companies, including UPSs recently
acquired Overnite Corp. He also said
another key to their newly found success
was quitting the AFL-CIO. The
Teamsters joined with six other
unions to form the Change to Win
Coalition as an alternative.
Hoffa has been touring the country
in an effort to revive union support.
The IPA was invited to attend a Teamster
rally/dinner with General President James P.
Hoffa. Pictured from left, IPA Negotiating Com-
mittee Member Chuck Patterson, Teamster
International Vice President hall, Hoffa
and Local 89 President Fred Z.
Hoffa Vows Support for IPA During
Teamster Rally

 

[dannyboy]

"I won't give it here"

What a joke. With all the unrequested links you posted, and finally someone asks you for one and you refuse? What a joke.

"but you have 2500 pilots walk at peak, and you have big problems."

YEah, let them walk at peak and see what happens. Nothing like getting a black eye in the public arena of ideals. IF they manage to let the union call the strike at peak, and Hoffa calls the drivers out in support, look for massive crossings over the line. And look for 50-80% lay offs as a merry Christmas. All the way down the line.

The union won the public support in the last strike, sorta, but this one will bite them big time.

d

 

[moreluck]

"In speaking to his members, Hoffa
said, these are exciting times as the
Teamsters work to organize more
companies...."

Why don't they just concentrate on FDX this time...??

 

[Unregistered]

Why don't they just concentrate on FDX this time...??

Theyre not going to get FedEx.

Theyre not going to get Overnite either.

Theyll lose UPS if they try. Just watch.

 

[Unregistered]

Freedom

Why aren't the UPS pilots picketing the NWA or Delta ticket counters in support of their brethren. Simply, it is all about them. If it so bad,quit. they aren't the heroes of the 30's through the 60's, technology has proven that the less they do the better! As a result they should get paid more? let me cry a river of tears. I don't work for UPS but I hope the pilots get hit hard enough to work for a living.

 

[susiedriver]

"I won't give it here"

What a joke. With all the unrequested links you posted, and finally someone asks you for one and you refuse? What a joke.

"but you have 2500 pilots walk at peak, and you have big problems."

YEah, let them walk at peak and see what happens. Nothing like getting a black eye in the public arena of ideals. IF they manage to let the union call the strike at peak, and Hoffa calls the drivers out in support, look for massive crossings over the line. And look for 50-80% lay offs as a merry Christmas. All the way down the line.

The union won the public support in the last strike, sorta, but this one will bite them big time.

d

Do your own research. I'm not here to provide your lazy butt information as you call for it. It's all here on this very site.

I suggest we see what the major announcement is tomorrow, so far it's nothing but conjecture what will happen.

Why don't you want the pilots to have the same industry leading wages and benefits you used to enjoy? Answer that.

 

[racerx]

Actually, Susie, Danny didnt ask for the information I did. It was a simple request, one that I though would have been responded to with civility. Because thats what I would have done had you asked me for further information. But I guess I am that kind of person, and you are not. I asked for that site for the simple purpose of seeing what the pilots were saying. As I stated earlier in this post, I want to know what they are asking for. Irregardless of what you think, I dont want to post to their site I want information.

As I am relatively new to this forum, I thought a lot of the folks here were giving you a bad rap. Sure, your political views are 180 degrees opposite of mine, but I was interested in hearing your side. Not any more. You just proved that I was wrong, and everyone else was right. {REMOVED BY MODERATOR... violation of flame policy} Rather than argue issues, you point fingers and attempt to cause derision.

UPS drivers are the highest paid in the industry, why not our pilots as well?

Oh, and by the way, they are not your pilots. You lost the right to associate yourself with UPS the last day you walked {REMOVED BY MODERATOR... violation of flame policy} out of the center.

 

[susiedriver]

An Explanation From A UPS Pilot

Originally Posted by *****
Now talk about being an idiot. No business no job Einstien.
We have seen IPA pilots berate us drivers and loaders. We have seen them contact our customers and take out these ads the latest being yesterday. We have seen them place blame but unable to accept responsibility. We have seen them call names.We have seen them whine how bad they have it and how little they make when they work 13 days a month and make over 6 figures. Sure you haven't had a raise in 4 years but you are still one of the highest paid in the entire industry. An industry that is full of furloughs, cutbacks, and bankruptcy. Put yourselves in our shoes for a second. I'm trying to see your points but it is very hard to. .

Sir, I am going to try and explain our position as simply as possible for you to understand. An Airline pilot is a professional career. We are not 9-5 bankers, accountants, laywers, doctors..etc. We are pilots. As such it takes many years to achieve the amount of qualified flight hours to even apply for this type of job. We are put through extensive training throughout our entire careers. Did you realize whenever UPS buys a new jet aircraft that we have to cram an entire systems manual into our heads in about 3 weeks of groundschool? Then there is approx. 3 weeks of simulator training just to be qualified to fly a new airplane. Do you have any clue as to how difficult this is? Most likely not. We are governed by the FAA and must pass a Class I or Class II physical to be able to do our job. A class I physical requires us to see a FAA governed doctor every 6 monts. After the age of 40 you are required to have a EKG done on your heart every year. One wrong heart beat and your career is over. Do you realize there are so many prescription and non-prescription drugs that we can't even take for such things as a common cold? I bet yoiu didn't know that. The Federal Government says we must retire at the age of 60. When are you required to retire? Back to the job itself. The vast majority of us are college educated. Many of us are post college graduates. Some of us are even Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants..etc. and still do this job because we love to fly airplanes. Lots of us are even Military Acadamy graduates. We are required to spend countless days away from our families every month. Flying to places all around the world. Possibly catching any types of diseases floating around. How about 9-11? I don't recall any package trucks being jacked and driven into the World Trade Center. Did you know some of us may even be packing a six shooter? I bet not. Where exactly do you have to travel and how often are you away from home? I certainly bet not as often as we are. Getting to the point of pay. Why shouldn't we be paid the salaries we are currently being paid? Noone has ever said that a package car driver shouldn't be paid a 6 figure salary. If you think you deserve it then bargin for it. If you are jealous of our salaries and lifestyles then go out and get get your flying licence and see how long it takes to make a 6 figure salary. Do you know it cost me nearly $50,000 for my pilot's licence just to get my first flying job paying only $11,000 the first year. I bet you didn't know that either. Hell, I want to be professional baseball player and be paid a 7 figure salary but I know how few ever make it that far. I certainly do not think a professional sports figure should ask for less. The team owners pay them what they are worth. Professional sports is just like an airline. If you want the best players on the field then it's going to cost you. UPS knows this but just doesn't want to step up to the plate yet. As for the airline industry being in a decline. SO WHAT!!! 16 years ago when I was hired the airlines were going strong but UPS could have cared less. They stated then that they could not compare us to the passenger airlines. Well now that has come back and bit them in the . Just because the airlines are struggling now you can bet for sure because it has happened in the past, the salaries and pensions will increase again. Count on it. Now as for any of my IPA brothers and sisters who have treated you or any other driver with disrespect, I am sorry. There is no place for that in our profession. I go completely out of my way to be friendly with all personnel working around my aircraft. So please try and understand where we are coming from. UPS is a multi-billion dollar company and everyone deserves a piece of the pie. I would love it if you could truly walk a day or week in my shoes. Only then would you understand.
Respectfully,
CW

 

[Unregistered/rushfan]

Fedex has the same problem. What if pilots from both companies walked off the same time.

 

[Unregistered]

Out of curiousity, why would a package car driver make any more than a pizza delivery guy? All they're doing is delivering door-to-door. Why would a feeder driver make more than a bus driver? The bus driver is actually carrying people and not boxes.

The previous questions were out of jest, however reading some of the posts regarding the pilot's contract the same logic used above is being used by many here towards the pilots. I'm not a manager, teamster, or a pilot, but I've often wondered if the teamsters would stand behind the pilots as they did for them in 97. Comparing UPS pilots to the passenger industry is comparing apples to oranges. Like it or not they're highest trained and educated employees per capita within the company, top managers included.

What if in 97 the pilots said "You want how much for unskilled labor?" and "Why should the drivers make more than a taxi driver when they actually deliver people and work longer hours?" Not one pilot crossed the teamster's line, not one.

UPS is the best and employes the best. Every union member needs to remember that solidarity forges they're future. Don't ever sell yourself short or another class and craft.

 

[dannyboy]

Sweetie

I didnt ask for anything, as racer pointed out

"I'm not here to provide your lazy butt information as you call for it.'

As for you not providing my lazy butt with information, why would that stop you now? It has NEVER EVER stopped you before. Why now? I just find that a bit funny. Kinda like catching some teens in the back seat of the car on the back 40. No matter what gets said, every one knows the truth.

So just keep on doing the mad dog routine, biting everyones hand.

d

 

[worldwide]

Pilot Forum Link

Danny,

Here's the link that for some unknown reason Susie would not post.

http://forums.airlinepilotcentral.com/forumdisplay.php?friend=4

What's the big deal?

 

[wkmac]

Sounds Like FedEx Pilots Are Ramping Up Contract Rumblings Too!

 

[dannyboy]

I didnt ask for the link, racer did. The big deal is that the queen of unsolicited links when finally asked for one, would/could not post the link. That is the big deal. The fact that many of us have accessed the site before he posted had nothing to do with the response that Susie gave.

As far as UPS pilots go, There is one that lives less than 4 miles from me. HAve never met him in person cause I never had the time. It would seem we have different working hours. Now that I have more time, we will have to change that.

d