Pilots - Here we go!

U

Unregistered

Guest
"OMG, I think it's a mother-daughter tag team !!"


No. Just one loon. Too bad she wasn't shot full of depo-provera or something.

She has reproduced, no doubt... to the detriment of society.
 

ok2bclever

I Re Member
It must be so frustrating to be so easily and continuously confused tie.

However, in this case I understand why you are baffled.

In your little world butt kisser is either a verb for climbing the management ladder or a term of endearment you use for your underlings.

Well, I am not one of your underlings and those of us in the real world would consider it an insult, aka: a flame.

Albeit a fairly mild one from such a benevolent dic tator wannabee, such as yourself. :cool:

Good to know nothing has really changed in your childish name calling mind while you were pretending to be an adult the last month or so since you last ran away.

Still self-proclaiming yourself the winner :D of every argument as well I see.:rolleyes:
 

tieguy

Banned
If we can get back to the gist of this thread before Okie starting begging me for my attention......again......

Pilot you don't seem like a bad guy. I do think you have this one in your gut too much. you're trying to convince yourself the company does not care about you and trying a little too hard to convince us that you deserve whatever you get. The contract will be what it will be. when you lay some blame don't forget the guys representing you.
These negotiations are never about one side not bargaining in good faith. When this drags out as long as this one has personalities on both sides are getting in the way.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Tieguy, you wrote,

"It is normal during long contract negotiations for the members of a union to start feeling underappreciated as the stress of the negotiations wear thin. Strike authorization votes always garner the results you show. Its a show of force and the members are told that. You appear to be psyching yourself up for the battle by telling yourself and us that you are underappreciated. Take your gut out of it. Its just business. Nothing more , nothing less."

You are right! It is normal to feel UNDERAPPRECIATED" during negotiations! I (WE) are not "PSYCHED UP" during the stress of the negotiations! That is one thing the company does not understand, there is an underlying foundation of RESOLVE! Nothing more, nothing less! The company is beside themselves due to the fact that they have been unable to take "HOSTAGES", fire or discipline a pilot for some trump up infraction! Wrong answer! We have been professional from the beginning; an example is last peak during the Louisville snowstorm. The pilot went above and beyond to make things work! They did not! Again, I have to agree with you, "It is just business, nothing more, nothing less." My gut is out of it, is yours?

And one more thing, the "underappreciated" feeling? It has been that way from DAY ONE!!!!!!! We have been made to feel that way because we did not start out in "the AM sort in Fargo North Dakota during the winter blizzard of 19...."

And you wrote,

"Pilot you don't seem like a bad guy. I do think you have this one in your gut too much. you're trying to convince yourself the company does not care about you and trying a little too hard to convince us that you deserve whatever you get. The contract will be what it will be. when you lay some blame don't forget the guys representing you.
These negotiations are never about one side not bargaining in good faith. When this drags out as long as this one has personalities on both sides are getting in the way."

I made a statement that the company was hiding behind the RLA! You seemed to have glossed over that! The IPA would have not gone public if the company had been bargaining "In good faith The last union meeting that I attended on Friday, NOV 18th, the union said the negotiations broke down because the company had "Buyers Remorse", tried reopening closed, or TA'ed (Tentatively Agreed on) articles. Up until the last round, the only articles left, were Scope, Retirement, Medical, Scheduling, and Compensation, and oh ya, Facilities! Huge fight over the cost of supplying 100 beds in Louisville at the "World Hub" for the pilot to rest in during the sort, company complains that it will cost $6.5 Million to remodel the building!!! I would like that contract, $65,000 a bed! Of course that number is not accurate! This improvement is critical! None other that the EX-NTSB, National Transportation Safety Board Chief, Jim Hall has recommended in an on going effort to prevent an accident! Ya, I (WE) feel appreciated! Our safety record is great, our company can hold there head high in regards to that, but I do think we the pilots have played a small roll, maybe, just maybe! SCOPE! This may be the number one issue! The growth of our company! The company wants to "OUTSOURSE JOBS"!!!! Hey, let's have China Air fly our packages and take our jobs!!!! Again, RESOLVE, not "PSYCHED UP"!!

The company does not want to reward the pilot group for our contribution! It is time for the company to address this problem & resolve it! It is time for all of US to pay attention to our "CUSTOMERS"!!!!!! It's time to put this behind us!! I say again, the blame rests at the doorstep of our CEO, Mike Esscew!!!!!! He has the power to say enough! SIGN THE CONTRACT! Make this go away! He is hurting OUR company and OUR CUSTOMERS! As long as the company HIDES behind the RLA, our only tool the IPA has to get the company attention is to inform our customers that there shipping may be in jeopardy! Nothing more, nothing less!

I would like to finish with this though; UPS works because of the "Package Car Drivers" and their relationship with our customers!!!! They are our front line; I would like to thank them and everyone else who makes this place work!


NOT PSYCHED UP, JUST RESOLVED!! Oh by the way, we are not going away! The company can hide behind the RLA all they want, these issues are not going away! At the end of the day, we will still be here! Not PSYCHED UP, JUST RESOLVED, WHAT EVER IT TAKES!!!

just a line slug
 

ok2bclever

I Re Member
typical tie, personal attacks and blame the union, any union.

So predictable.

How generous of you to bestow your judgement that you don't think BBD is a bad guy as you then go on to denigrade him and his union.

I don't think you are a bad guy either brownbusdriver.

Period. :D

More appropriately, I enjoy your insight and agree with your points.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Just a consumer's view.......if there is informational picketing at UPS Stores during this time of year, you are not going to get my attention as a consumer.

Everybody during this season has the S.T.D. mentality. ( :censored2: to do).

People are not going to stop to listen to the many points that brownbusdriver has brought up here. Basically they are going to look at what kind of $$$ the pilots make and then look at the kind of $$$ they themselselves make and the pilots will come off as greedy when John & Jane Doe are pulling in $45,000 a yr.

There are a lot of people out there right now in front of stores wanting us consumers to stop and sign and read various petitions....we have no time for that right now.

JMHO
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
moreluck said:
Just a consumer's view.......if there is informational picketing at UPS Stores during this time of year, you are not going to get my attention as a consumer.

Everybody during this season has the S.T.D. mentality. ( :censored2: to do).

People are not going to stop to listen to the many points that brownbusdriver has brought up here. Basically they are going to look at what kind of $$$ the pilots make and then look at the kind of $$$ they themselselves make and the pilots will come off as greedy when John & Jane Doe are pulling in $45,000 a yr.

There are a lot of people out there right now in front of stores wanting us consumers to stop and sign and read various petitions....we have no time for that right now.

JMHO

Please tell me you don't actually believe the consumer is the intended audience for the pickets (coincidentally being held in the largest MEDIA markets in the country).
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Why else would informational pickets be at the UPS Stores??? And remember if it weren't for consumers, no company would even be in business.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
This is where I read it....

UPS Store owners have mixed feelings about IPA picket plan

Updated: 7:00 p.m. ET Nov. 27, 2005
An Independent Pilots Association plan to picket outside The UPS Store locations in Louisville and other cities with large United Parcel Service Inc. operations is leaving some store franchisees frustrated.

The union, which represents UPS pilots, took out a full-page ad in USA Today earlier this month, alerting customers that "informational picketing" was "coming soon to a UPS Store near you."

Story continues below ↓
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The pickets are an attempt to draw attention to the negotiations, which have dragged on since October 2002.

But some Louisville franchisees, including Michael Seiler, aren't happy that their stores were chosen as a battleground for a fight that doesn't involve them.

Seiler, owner of a store at 974 Breckinridge Lane, said he and other franchisees pay royalties to UPS subsidiary Mail Boxes Etc. Inc. and follow a uniform retail format, but that's the extent of their relationship with UPS.

Although the UPS logo and the company's trademark brown are predominant in signage at the stores, Seiler said he isn't taking sides in the ongoing dispute between UPS and its pilots.

UPS bought Mail Boxes Etc. in 2001 and changed store names to The UPS Store in 2003, but the individual outlets are owned by independent franchisees.

"I am upset that they're using us to get their point across," Seiler said. "I have spoken to some of our regular customers, and they understand that we aren't owned by UPS, but I'm sure there are people out there" who think the stores are owned by UPS.

In the ad, the IPA said it wanted to bring the lengthy negotiations to the attention of customers at The UPS Store locations in UPS's hometown, Atlanta, as well as Los Angeles, Dallas, Orlando and Louisville.

"We're going to be polite about it," IPA president Capt. Tom Nicholson said. "Before we picket, we'll go in and talk to the shop owner, and we'll hold doors for customers and we'll be polite. We just think the public, shippers and investors need to know that we feel that this has gone on for too long."

Pilots 'within their legal rights' to picket
Steve Holmes, an Atlanta-based public relations manager for UPS, declined to say whether any store franchisees have contacted the company to express concerns about the picketing.

"We have advised the store owners that the pilots are within their legal rights to do picketing," he said.

It was unclear when and where IPA pilots might picket in Louisville. Nicholson declined to disclose specific information, but he said picketing is planned for mid-December.

Joyce Vallance, owner of The UPS Store in Floyds Knobs, said she hasn't been informed that her store will be picketed, but she said she is doubtful that picket lines outside any of The UPS Store locations will net the desired effect.

"UPS isn't going to be paying attention to anything that is going on in front of UPS Stores," Vallance said. "This is not our fight."

Pilots see stores as retail face of UPS
But Nicholson said the pilots decided to picket outside The UPS Store locations because they are widely seen as retail outlets that represent the company.

IPA officials have not coordinated picket lines with any franchisee, but about half of the franchisees who have contacted the IPA about the plans have been supportive, even inviting pilots to picket in front of their stores, Nicholson said.

The other half are concerned that the picketers might drive away customers, Nicholson said.

"We're glad to receive their feedback, but the IPA solely exists to take care of pilots who fly for UPS," added Brian Gaudet, president of Washington, D.C.-based Brian Gaudet and Associates, a public relations firm representing the IPA.

Pilots find sympathy among some franchisees
Some franchisees of The UPS Store have contacted the IPA and told them they would speak out on behalf of the pilots, Gaudet said.

Many of them are members of The Brown Board Owners Association Inc., a coalition of several hundred franchisees who have banded together to raise concerns about increasing costs and declining profitability at their stores.

Brown Board members could not be reached for comment.

The franchisees have accused UPS of undercutting them by offering cheaper shipping rates to customers who purchase shipping labels online and by touting its direct pickup service.

"We have our own issues with UPS," Seiler said. "We want the UPS pilots to be fairly compensated, but it's not our issue."

Strike could be looming
After more than three years of negotiations with UPS, the IPA announced on Nov. 18 that it would give the company until Dec. 23 to present a labor agreement it deems acceptable.

According to the IPA's Web site, www.ipapilot.org, contracts governed by the Railway Labor Act have "amendable dates," rather than an expiration date. The pilots currently are working under an agreement that became amendable on Dec. 31, 2003. The IPA has negotiated with UPS since October 2002.

The company and union differ over matters such as health care premiums and sleeping quarters for pilots waiting for planes to be loaded.

If an agreement isn't reached before the deadline, the IPA will seek a release from mediation. If a release is granted by the National Mediation Board, the union would be required to observe a 30-day "cooling off" period before a strike could officially begin, according to the Railway Labor Act. UPS also could lock out its pilots after that 30-day period.

Nicholson said two decisions made by the National Mediation Board earlier this year lead him to believe that the IPA could be released from mediation if it requests such a release.

The board released Northwest Airlines Inc. mechanics and Polar Air Cargo Inc. pilots from negotiations with their respective companies, allowing the workers to strike.

UPS officials have downplayed the IPA's tactics, saying that the National Mediation Board has not given any indication it will consider granting the IPA a release from mediation.

Negotiations are set to resume Dec. 19 to 23 in Green Bay, Wis.

"Additional negotiating dates would not have been scheduled if the parties were at an impasse or if the NMB thought a release was appropriate," Louisville-based UPS Airlines public relations manager Mark Giuffre said last week in an e-mail to the media. "Any discussion by the IPA about being released from negotiations is pure rhetoric."

Not leaving anything to chance, Seiler said he has a backup plan if IPA pilots decide to resort to a strike in the coming months.

"We rely on UPS to handle our shipping, but it's not our only option," Seiler said. "We also offer DHL."

2005 Business First of Louisville
 

ok2bclever

I Re Member
tie,

In truth, beyond your half-wit (benefit of the doubt there) offensive style of personal attacks I find your pathetic take on virtually every issue disgusting.

And calling me your god won't change that. :D

Man, talk about a butt kisser. :p
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
ok2be...off topic ?

How come you never go in the chat room to discuss all of these ups issues and life in general?

If you do decide to enter, please make it a Sunday night when the talk is very lively and there are 10-12 folks in there....around 7PM.pacific time.
Bring your girlfriend Susie along too.....you can help her drag that suitcase full of links with her......because obviously she has no thoughts of her own.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
I don't believe that hitting the UPS stores would be wise. Try the center's shipping area.

As a UPS store owner, one that is non union, how would you try to gain support, except by people that have some ax to grind with UPS. And the majority of those who drop packages off at the stores would not fall in that category.

Before you picket there, let's organize the UPS store owners and the employees and make them teamsters. ;)

As a UPS store owner, I dont think that they do have a legal right to picket my store, even if it is for informational purposes. Most are in shopping centers with anti loitering laws, so that should prohibit pickets as well.

Im with morelock. Show up here where the average wage is less than 20 grand, and union wages are less than 30 and see what support you get for your cause.

d
 

ok2bclever

I Re Member
I understand your justifiable and certifiable (you are certainly certifiable) inferiority complex tie, but you absolutely have to get over this fixation about me being your god. :p

moreluck, I not big into real time chatting as I check in to help while editing and seldom have time to concentrate on an ongoing real time conversation.

As far as susie, it is true she can be abrasive and I know you are republican in your philosophies so do not like her, but you lessen yourself lying about her mental faculties.

Links only intimidate the weak and close minded and I would hope you don't consider yourself in that category.

danny, who is this morelock you are with?

Does your wife know?

I doubt if you will see the pilots doing something as silly as information picketing an anti-union location with such low average wages as you say your state is.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
In my part of the state, I can get people to work all day long for 6 bucks an hour. Further west, we have turnover at the hubs that approaches 500% and they pay 850 and have a free computer to any one that stays 30 days. So the whole state is not like it is here, and for 100 miles in every direction.

I check in to help while editing

I thought I detected a "savior mentality" in many of your posts. That would explain much. That might also be why you and Tie have this thing going on about "my God"?

As for Morelucky and I, yeppers, we will be getting together the first of the year. Looking forward to spending some time with, and maybe stuffing a turkey or two. :D

d
 

ok2bclever

I Re Member
<!--StartFragment -->You are really sounding like a landlord with boasting you can get people to work for you for $6 an hour all day.

You forgot to crow without benefits.

"So the whole state is not like it is here, and for 100 miles in every direction."

Did you mistate that sentence or does it actually make sense to you?
 
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