potential problems with "ups freight"

[montecarlo12]

UPSDAWG,
When UPS went on strike years ago, Fedex did not use that as a marketing tool. I hope UPS and your Union come to an agreement on a contract before 7/08. I watched many friends and two family members really sweat out the strike and put alot of stress on there families. I Would never wish to see anyone have to go through it. With that said you also have to realize that UPS hurt alot of customers because of the length of time the strike went on for. There is no doubt Fedex capitalized on many new customers, but during the strike we did not let any companies, no matter the size, open a new account with us. We even had a package limit per customer at out front counters. That was no fun for us either because we were just an air division that was getting killed with packages. I still have my T-Shirt saying "I SURVIVED THE BROWN OUT" I understand the reason for the strike, but UPS has no one to blame but themselves if customers change there carriers if there is any mention of a strike in the future. Im not a union member but do understand that there are some companies and trades where employees need union protection. I would never cross a picket line to walk into a supermarket, or buy a 12pak of a Beer from a company where there drivers are being replaced by union busters and scabbs. Fedex feels there business model is the best in the industry, and will continue to do the things which has made it so successful. I wish only the best for UPS employees in 2008.

 

[worldwide]

montecarlo12 said the following things that need to be corrected/clarified.

""When UPS went on strike years ago, Fedex did not use that as a marketing tool."

UPS did NOT go on strike, the Teamsters went on strike against UPS. You want us to believe that no Fedex sales person mentioned the threat of a strike when making a sales pitch to a UPS customer in '97? You think that no Fedex sales person brings that up to customers now and will not next year ("remember what happened in '97, better open an account with Fedex"). Are you serious?

"With that said you also have to realize that UPS hurt alot of customers..."

The TEAMSTERS hurt a lot of customers--they went on strike against UPS.

"I understand the reason for the strike.."

Please share with us what that reason was.

"I would never cross a picket line to walk into a supermarket, or buy a 12pak of a Beer from a company where there drivers are being replaced by union busters and scabbs."

But you had no problem picking up and delivering packages that were formerly being picked up and delivered by UPS drivers. As a non-union driver taking work from a union UPS driver, does that not, in fact, make you a scab? Why would you support the supermarket in the above example but not the UPS drivers?

 

[over9five]

Worldwide said the following things that need to be corrected/clarified.

"The TEAMSTERS hurt a lot of customers--they went on strike against UPS."

UPS hurt a lot of customers AND employees with their "Last, Best and FINAL offer".

 

[worldwide]

"UPS hurt a lot of customers AND employees with their "Last, Best and FINAL offer"."

Who walked off the job? Who refused to work? UPS was still opeerating with as many dedicated UPSers as possible.

Please post what the "last, best and final offer" was and what the final contract was. BTW, where is the man who was responsible for the strike-Carey? What ever happened to him?

 

[ikoi62]

UPS was still opeerating with as many dedicated UPSers as possible.

scabs.....

 

[montecarlo12]

worldwide,
education time.....Back in "97" Fedex was strictly an Express carrier. Fedex Express employees more then double the pilots and has a much larger air fleet then UPS. Every one of these Fedex pilots are Unionized.
I believe back in "97" about 90% of UPS volume was ground packages. FEDEX EXPRESS has never delivered a GROUND package to this day. If a customer used UPS exclusively for ground and air they had to wait the strike out with UPS. Fedex would not allow any UPS customers to open a new account as the strike was going on.

Please explain to me how any Fedex express employee was a scab in (97)
were not in a union, we didnt pick up or deliver 1 UPS package. What makes you feel I dont have the right to go to work because another company in the same industry was on strike? I hate to tell you Worldwide but it was UPS and not the union who caused the work stoppage. If UPS had negotiated in good faith in "97" that mess could have been avoided. Worldwide...correct me if im wrong, but it does say UPS on those brown trucks, and the pissed off customers were trying to ship there goods through the UPS system in (97). I always thought UPS was the package company, and the union was there to protect the employee from the employer. UPS (the company) has only themselves to blame for any lost business and the jump start for FEDEX

 

[wornoutupser]

"UPS hurt a lot of customers AND employees with their "Last, Best and FINAL offer"."

Who walked off the job? Who refused to work? UPS was still opeerating with as many dedicated UPSers as possible.

Please post what the "last, best and final offer" was and what the final contract was. BTW, where is the man who was responsible for the strike-Carey? What ever happened to him?

Here is my opinion.

Let's get to the point- WHO threw down a crap offer that was so bad that a strike vote was authorized? Who thought that no one would stand up to them?

UPS

I think that the blame squarely goes onto Jim Kelly. Period.

If you research the strike, look up Mikey's famous quote. He called all of us hourlies "pesky labor costs".
My opinion of him is that he is an unfit CEO. The stock price stinks, PAS is a nightmare that seems to take forever to work IF it ever does, missed packages are everywhere and so on.
My area has drivers out till all hours of the night, yet UPS will not allow any more hires. We are now told that we drive 14 hours because UPS decided that the rule does not apply to us. Why? Because "they" say that we are not behind the wheel for the entire time, therefore we are exempt.
We had a driver violate 14 hours this week and still missed over 30 stops that night!
THE ONLY PERSON THAT SUFFERS IS THE CUSTOMER and Atlanta has seemed to forgotten that fact. If we took care of the customers to begin with (by taking care of our employees and keeping our own house in order internally), then there would not have been a strike or the internal turmoil that is posted on this board daily.
As a stockholder, I am appalled by the lack of drivers and equipment that is needed to do the job, yet Atlanta has the mighty RSU bonus system to reward themselves for a job that I feel is not worth them being there. UPS is a company that knows how to make money, but "they" certainly do not want it to leave the corporate offices in Atlanta.
There is a driver in my area that I recently posted about. "They" refuse to honor his seniority that was announced to an entire driver group. This driver STILL has not had his benefits paid with a infant at home. He STILL does not have a payraise...after six months-yet Atlanta gets a RSU bonus of at least 50%?
Where is the fairness here?
UPS needs to get its own affairs in order!



As for Carey?? The last time that I checked he was cleared after being banned for life. Is my information correct?

 

[worldwide]

monte said "If UPS had negotiated in good faith in "97" that mess could have been avoided."

OK, I'll ask again...Please post what the "last, best and final offer" was and what the final contract was. How, specifically, did UPS not negotaite in "good faith?" How are offers of profit-sharing and a more lucrative pension program not "good faith?"

As a result of the strike, the rank-and-file Teamsters that comprised the strikers at UPS lost two weeks of wages, their annual profit shares, and the opportunity to accept a corporate pension plan that was far more generous than the one negotiated by the Teamsters (How's that Teamster pension plan look now?).

One point on which the Teamsters proclaimed victory is the rejection of the UPS management's proposal to convert the current Teamster-run, multi-employer pension plans to a plan solely for UPS retirees, administered jointly by UPS and the Teamsters. Under the company's proposed plan, UPS retirees would have gained up to 25 percent in benefits over the current multi-employer plans. UPS could have improved pensions for its Teamsters because it no longer would have been compelled to subsidize pensions for employees of other, less-profitable companies that contribute less on behalf of their employees. (UPS also guaranteed it would fulfill its existing financial obligations under the multi-employer plans at a cost of over $700 million.)

 

[tieguy]

montecarlo12 said the following things that need to be corrected/clarified.

""When UPS went on strike years ago, Fedex did not use that as a marketing tool."

UPS did NOT go on strike, the Teamsters went on strike against UPS. You want us to believe that no Fedex sales person mentioned the threat of a strike when making a sales pitch to a UPS customer in '97? You think that no Fedex sales person brings that up to customers now and will not next year ("remember what happened in '97, better open an account with Fedex"). Are you serious?

I don't know where he comes up with this crap. Our customers tell us fdx clearly uses the threat of every contract to drum up sales including the 97 strike.

 

[upsdawg]

Worldwide------I totally agree with your recent post. UPS Teamsters authorized the Union to call a strike on their behalf---and when push came to shove could not retract it---do the Teamsters want UPS to take control of the Teamster Pension Plan---hell no!

Monte----Fed Ex Sales people were indeed signing up accounts immediately prior to the 97 UPS Teamster Strike---and FED Ex got real good at it the next go around( 2002)------telling customers that if they were not alrady a Fed Ex customer--the only way that they would take any new business was to have the customer sign a 1 year agreement----for "GROUND" as well as air----do I blame you---absolutely not, because it is the name of the game---get more business and be smart about it---shame on the UPS Teamsters and UPS for putting us in this situation in the first place.

Real question is this------would the UPS Teamsters be in a better position now with UPS controlling the Pension Plan or the way it stands now??

(WornoutUPSter---- ??after six months-yet Atlanta gets a RSU bonus of at least 50%?----excuse my ignorance, but what is a RSU??)

 

[montecarlo12]

Tieguy.
Not only can you not read an earnings report and understand it, but you also cant read a post. My conversation with Worldwide is about The strike in 1997. I Said FEDEX did not take any of UPS's customers or packages while the strike was going on. Why wouldnt Fedex sales use it to there advantage after the strike??? Remember when UPS could walk into a customer and say "if you give us all of Fedex's air packages, we will give you a larger discount on your ground shipments". That was UPS capitolizing on a opportunity, and an unfair advantage over Fedex that did not have a ground division. If Fedex sales (does infact) remind customers what did, and could happen in the future as part of a sales pitch, does that make it wrong?? Seems to me that they are taking advantage of whats happened in the past. Its just to companies looking for an edge over the other.

 

[tieguy]

Perhaps both sides of the table made a lot of mistakes in 97. Perhaps we should learn from those mistakes and move on?

 

[worldwide]

monte,

Keep your stories straight.

On 3/3 you posted "When UPS went on strike years ago, Fedex did not use that as a marketing tool."

Now it's "If Fedex sales (does infact) remind customers what did, and could happen in the future as part of a sales pitch, does that make it wrong??"

Do you still claim that Fedex did not, does not and will not use the threat of a Teamster strike as a marketing tool?

Oh yes, you still seem not able to answer a question about something you said. OK, I'll ask again...Please post what the "last, best and final offer" was and what the final contract was. How, specifically, did UPS not negotaite in "good faith?" How are offers of profit-sharing and a more lucrative pension program not "good faith?"

"Remember when UPS could walk into a customer and say "if you give us all of Fedex's air packages, we will give you a larger discount on your ground shipments". That was UPS capitolizing on a opportunity."

Actually, it is capitalizing on a unique strength UPS has that Fedex does not-a single, unified network. As much as Fedex likes to give the impression of one network. it's still seperate Express and Ground divisions with two different drivers and two different invoices and two seperate systems.

A UPS network advantage and system benefit is not the same thing as Fedex fear mongering ("you better switch now just in case...I can't help you later if you don't do something now"). That approach has "used car salesmen" all over it ("act now! What do I have to do to get you to buy today?").

 

[montecarlo12]

Worldwide,
HAHAHAHA...Your in UPS management also huh??
I said back in 97, Fedex did not use the strike to there advantage. We did not take your packages or accept new accounts from UPS customers. Remember you called me a scab you idiot??
If fedex used that "scare" tactic as you suggested when work resumed, its fair game. Fedex would be dumb not to take advantage of the mistake that UPS made and hurt alot of customers. What kind of weight would the "scare" tactic have anyway if UPS made better decisions in 97? What would Fedex sales have to remind customers about?? hmmm. You say im changing stories. How about going to my post #21, 26, and 31 and underlining it for us. One post is talking about during the strike, and the others are talking about after the strike was over. you made the decision to put the two time frames together. Again Fedex didnt use your "scare" tactic before or during the strike.

Worldwide,
I dont know which company has the better business model. I dont think our opinions count in the whole scheme of things. Lets leave it to Wall Street and customers to decide. fair enough??

 

[montecarlo12]

Worldwide,
All seven Fedex companies share the same system. I think Fedex's approach is to stream line separate divisions in there respective markets to make the package flow as efficient as possible through its own networks. It also allows Fedex to be nimble enough to take advantage of changing domestic and Intl markets depending on customers needs.

 

[Coldworld]

wall street plays favorites...does everyone agree. ups has had contineous growth for almost 100 years, year after year after year. How many other companies can say that. One would think that wall street would eat that right up....hmmm. wrong. Why is it that a company can beat wall streets estimates, but the stock goes down. Just because fedex stock is the way to go now doesnt mean jack down the road. If you want to compare "problems" down the road, I think fedex will have more than ups. The post office and dhl will have more that fedex and ups. but time will tell

 

[tieguy]

I agree in that the rules are different for both UPS and Fdx. Fdx as the up and comer in the ground business gets a free ride right now. The critical eye has not yet been applied to their results. Thus they still have the opportunity to embellish or spin their results. UPS recieves the critical eye on their results but at the same time carries the higher valuation that makes them the financial leader in the industry. Whatever happens here on out both will eventually be evaluated on their results and they manner in which they handle the challenges that are unique to each.

 

[upsdawg]

Tie....I agree in that the rules are different for both UPS and Fdx. Fdx as the up and comer in the ground business gets a free ride right now.

Time will tell, as you say. RPS/Fed-Ex Ground has some huge hurdles to cross with the outsourcing of their Independant Contractors---maybe when that catches up to them, Wall Street may look differently on them. Fed Ex does a wonderful job spinning their successes--used to be they would pump up the fact that their revenues were increasing, and never made much reference to their profit------kind of the same now---their new ground volume and revenue is increasing so they must be driving UPS out of business because they are stealing marketshare!! The fact that UPS profit for 4th Qtr 2005 was >$1 billion (Monte--what was Fed Ex for their last qtr ending?) should make Wall Street take notice but is doesn't!

Time will tell and I will put my money on UPS----UPS Freight is the right way to go--so is Menlo--so Is SCS---I say let Fed Ex have some ground (low revenue--high cost to serve)volume and we will focus on Int'l growth and being the Supply Chain Solutions leader in the industry---a $300 Billion market!!

 

[BigBrownBill]

The only problems I can see with UPS Freight is that they give our customers the same respect and service they are recieving on our package side. As bad as some of the FedEx drivers look and operate, have you seen a FedEx Freight operator lately...pretty bad....I just don't want UPS to fall into that problem as well.

 

[montecarlo12]

"UPS hurt a lot of customers AND employees with their "Last, Best and FINAL offer"."

Who walked off the job? Who refused to work? UPS was still opeerating with as many dedicated UPSers as possible.

Please post what the "last, best and final offer" was and what the final contract was. BTW, where is the man who was responsible for the strike-Carey? What ever happened to him?

Worldwide,
have a definition for you....

SCAB \'skab\ 3: a worker who replaces a striker or works under conditions not authorized by a union.

those dedicated UPSers that continued to work during the strike are all scabs including yourself. It doesnt matter that you are in management and not in a union. You crossed a picket line at least twice a day and replaced someone who was picketing for something he or she believed in. Im also not in a union but like I posted before, would never purchase a product from a striking company or cross a picket line ( Doesn't matter if I agree with there cause or not) You made a conscious decision to cross a picket like and take the place of a striker. Fedex Express...UPS's largest competitor would not even take a package from a UPS customer while there employees were striking. Worldwide....guess that makes you not only a scab...but a piece of ****, huh? What was harder, driving through the picket lines twice a day, or knowing that every motorist you past on the road new you were a scab and a piece of ****?? Please respond..Im gonna chew you up and spit you out. You have alot of nerve to call someone a scab!