Question about dishonesty and cardinal sins/rules

[Drivingonempty]

Is dishonesty defined anywhere? It falls under a cardinal rule and reason for immediate discharge but where is dishonesty itself defined? Its seems like such a general term that virtually anything could fall under such a catagory.

 

[brownrodster]

Is dishonesty defined anywhere? It falls under a cardinal rule and reason for immediate discharge but where is dishonesty itself defined? Its seems like such a general term that virtually anything could fall under such a catagory.

Dictionary?

 

[Drivingonempty]

That's not really funny when people are being fired at whim and family's are suffering because of it.

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

Drivingonempty,

I do believe it is outlined in the contract...I don't have one in front of me but I am pretty sure it's in there.....

 

[cachsux]

Lying,stealing,sleeping with the center manager`s wife,etc.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Lying,stealing,sleeping with the center manager`s wife,etc.

sleeping with the CMs mistress (outside or hourly)

 

[tourists24]

Using a public restroom instead of a pee bottle

 

[Babagounj]

Lying,stealing,sleeping with the center manager`s wife,etc.

sleeping with the CMs mistress (outside or hourly)

or sleeping with the center manager.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

or sleeping with the center manager.

some of the stewards do it

 

[Catatonic]

Is dishonesty defined anywhere?

Dictionary?

That's not really funny when people are being fired at whim and family's are suffering because of it.

Sorry Jackson, but yes that was funny.

 

[chopstic]

sleeping with the CMs mistress (outside or hourly)

but only if you lie about it...

 

[rocket man]

Lying,stealing,sleeping with the center manager`s wife,etc.

DOSE IT APPLY IN FL ST PETE

 

[cachsux]

dose it apply in fl st pete

what!? I`m sorry but you`ll have to speak up!

 

[filthpig]

The cardinal sins are:
Dishonesty
No seat belt

Now you know.

 

[MC4YOU2]

That's not really funny when people are being fired at whim and family's are suffering because of it.

This is a favorite loophole that UPS loves to use to intimidate the troops with. Since they can declare dishonesty to include virtually anything, which I doubt was the original intent of the language, they can pretty much fire anyone they want at any time for "dishonesty". Just another area of language that obviously now needs rewording to allow those charged with it a panel hearing immediately to determine the rationale for the accusation in the first place. It's just too much undue hardship for employees to endure the long wait before hearing at panel and then region and maybe even arbitration, especially since most are reinstated anyway. Just a bunch of posturing by the higher ups to assert dominance over the lowly hourlies imho.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Is dishonesty defined anywhere? It falls under a cardinal rule and reason for immediate discharge but where is dishonesty itself defined? Its seems like such a general term that virtually anything could fall under such a catagory.

So this has to beg the question....

Do you think there should be certain levels of dishonesty ??

ie: It's OK to be dishonest to a certain degree..?? But once you cross that line....

"That's not really funny when people are being fired at whim and family's are suffering because of it."

So it's OK as long as you have a family..??


Help me with this one....



-BUG-
_________________________________________________________

"Stupid people should be encourged to say stupid things.... that way, we always know who the stupid people are"

 

[UnconTROLLed]

So this has to beg the question....

Do you think there should be certain levels of dishonesty ??

ie: It's OK to be dishonest to a certain degree..?? But once you cross that line....

"That's not really funny when people are being fired at whim and family's are suffering because of it."

So it's OK as long as you have a family..??


Help me with this one....



-BUG-

Let me help you.

If management is firing people for "alleged" dishonesty - is that OK with you? Guilty until proven innocent, while losing their job at least temporarily and losing a source of income so management can improve their already phoney balogna numbers and paid hours?

I do not think anyone is talking about proven dishonesty - which is an inherently different animal.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Sleve,

The original post was asking for a defined list.... at least that's my impression. And why would you want such a definitive description ?

Alot of "white paper" contract's have such language.... especially for attendance.

4 infractions = verbal warning
5 infractions = written warning
6 infractions = suspension
7 infractions = termination............ PERIOD !! With no recourse.

It gives you room to negotiate with less defined language.

Let's face it.... even with a grievance procedure.... a panel system ( in most area's ) it's a lower threshold of proof the company has to offer. It's not like a court of law where they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

So why would you want to give them any more ammunition ?


-BUG-

______________________________

 

[anonymous6]

That's not really funny when people are being fired at whim and family's are suffering because of it.

Can you give some specific examples of coworkers being discharged ?

 

[639OldTimer]

In Industrial Arbitration "dishonesty" is defined as "intent to deceive, defraud & profit from your actions". As you know the Company alleges dishonesty when in fact the violation is usually methods or procedures.

Article 7 is supposed to keep employee(s) on the clock except for "Cardinal Infractions" under the local supplement or rider.