retired benefits major hike

[vantexan]

By your own admission your income hasn't exceeded the minimum filing requirements in recent years meaning no federal liability. Now replacing the FIT with a VAT will slap a 23% surcharge onto nearly everything you buy . Now just how will it benefit you when you have no FIT liability to begin with?

A VAT would require a degree of voluntary compliance higher than could be reasonably expected.

Now over here sits my piano. Now let's say that you came here and bought my piano for let's say $500 and you paid me in paper dollars. Now do you actually think that I would go to the bother of filling out a VAT voucher, stroke a check and mail it in?

Whatever benefit a VAT might have means nothing if it can be easily cheated on.

By my own admission? When did I admit that? My pension is $22k a year. About to get over $19k in SS in February. Not only will I have to pay taxes on my pension but on 50% of my SS.

If you went and bought a piano at a business you'd pay the VAT.

And again, like everyone else I'd get a private check for taxes on necessities. Groceries, gas, that sort of thing. And since no taxes are taken from paychecks workers will be better armed to buy a luxury now and then.

 

[vantexan]

Then why should the public bonds and the liability that goes with them be dumped onto the guy who can't afford to go to the game.?

And your so called "Fair Tax"?
Even if in the unlikely event a "Fair Tax' bill even makes it into congressional committee before it can even get out of committee here are the kinds of questions that will require answers:

1. What will the setup costs be for an entirely new system of taxation?
2. What will the collection enforcement costs be and what percentage of the total Fair Tax liability can the enforcement network
be able to collect 70%....50%....30%?
3. If the 23% VAT tax fails to fully replace dollar for dollar the eliminated revenue streams, when the proponents said it will what
options will Congress have at it's disposal to make up the shortfall when 71% of all federal spending is mandated by law and
there's no going back to the old system>
4. When you slap a 23% surcharge on medical supplies and equipment what impact will it have on healthcare spending
including Medicare?

5. What impact will the elimination of the tax deduction incentive have on charitable giving and the charities ability to care for
the needy?
6. What impact will the elimination of the tax deduction incentive have on churches and the humanitarian causes they serve
both here and abroad?

I'm certain Wally that you took all of these matters into consideration before coming out in support of a VAT tax. So tell us
your solutions to these troubling questions.

When did you care about what happened to churches? Unlike you Philistines people who care won't need an incentive to give.

 

[bacha29]

By my own admission? When did I admit that? My pension is $22k a year. About to get over $19k in SS in February. Not only will I have to pay taxes on my pension but on 50% of my SS.

If you went and bought a piano at a business you'd pay the VAT.

And again, like everyone else I'd get a private check for taxes on necessities. Groceries, gas, that sort of thing. And since no taxes are taken from paychecks workers will be better armed to buy a luxury now and then.

If the vendor an EIN and a tax certificate but how many private, person to person cash only sales will escape the tax?
I suggest that you try to answer the questions I asked Wally a moment to see if you can answer them these are the kind of questions likely to be asked at a congressional hearing of a VAT bill even makes it into committee.

 

[vantexan]

If the vendor an EIN and a tax certificate but how many private, person to person cash only sales will escape the tax?
I suggest that you try to answer the questions I asked Wally a moment to see if you can answer them these are the kind of questions likely to be asked at a congressional hearing of a VAT bill even makes it into committee.

Let's say you buy that piano from a private party. When has that ever been a Federal tax transaction? The only private transaction I'm aware of that involves paying tax is buying a car. Pay sales tax to the state when registering the car. Or anything else that has to be registered with the state.

 

[bacha29]

When did you care about what happened to churches? Unlike you Philistines people who care won't need an incentive to give.

Where did it say that I did? The point is if a VAT tax bill makes it into committee a good share of the testimony before the committee will surround these matters.

You're the guy who is the strong advocate of a VAT tax and therefore I sure you've taken these matters into consideration before voicing your strong support for the bill.

 

[bacha29]

Let's say you buy that piano from a private party. When has that ever been a Federal tax transaction? The only private transaction I'm aware of that involves paying tax is buying a car. Pay sales tax to the state when registering the car. Or anything else that has to be registered with the state.

Cars have titles, pianos .don't along transfer fees and a paper trail . And I seriously doubt that you're going to get the title to that car until that paper trail is satisfied and the taxes paid.

 

[vantexan]

Where did it say that I did? The point is if a VAT tax bill makes it into committee a good share of the testimony before the committee will surround these matters.

You're the guy who is the strong advocate of a VAT tax and therefore I sure you've taken these matters into consideration before voicing your strong support for the bill.

Yes, I spent countless hours fact checking everyone else on it. Not. Knowing that a rabid tax and spend Democrat is against the Fair Tax automatically makes it worth pursuing in my book.

 

[vantexan]

Cars have titles, pianos .don't along transfer fees and a paper trail . And I seriously doubt that you're going to get the title to that car until that paper trail is satisfied and the taxes paid.

What does that have to do with anything? Neither transaction would be a Federal tax situation. You're creating problems where there aren't any.

 

[Fred's Myth]

So, no taxes? How are things paid for? The Fair Tax wouldn't run parallel to the current Federal income tax, it would completely replace it as well as all other Federal taxes.

No, the Fair thing would be to limit, as a percentage of income, what the state could tax you. The FEDERAL government would be limited to what it could tax, and would only be able to tax the State government, not its citizens.

THAT would be tax simplification.

 

[vantexan]

No, the Fair thing would be to limit, as a percentage of income, what the state could tax you. The FEDERAL government would be limited to what it could tax, and would only be able to tax the State government, not its citizens.

THAT would be tax simplification.

That's a new wrinkle I hadn't heard before.

 

[bacha29]

What does that have to do with anything? Neither transaction would be a Federal tax situation. You're creating problems where there aren't any.

You just got done mentioning cars earlier. Now would car purchases be subjected to the 23% federal so called "Fair Tax"? If not then just exactly what items would be subject to the tax?

 

[Wally]

We need
less taxes. Less spending. Any VAT would be a disaster.

 

[vantexan]

You just got done mentioning cars earlier. Now would car purchases be subjected to the 23% federal so called "Fair Tax"? If not then just exactly what items would be subject to the tax?

When you buy something new it would be subject to the Federal 23% tax. To my knowledge a private transaction buying a used car would only incur the state sales tax when registering it. A private transaction involving the sale of personal items doesn't incur a tax, same as now. So go sell your piano.

 

[bacha29]

No, the Fair thing would be to limit, as a percentage of income, what the state could tax you. The FEDERAL government would be limited to what it could tax, and would only be able to tax the State government, not its citizens.

THAT would be tax simplification.

Great idea! Now just where in the hell is the state going to get the money to pay the tax the federal government has levied on it?

 

[vantexan]

We need
less taxes. Less spending. Any VAT would be a disaster.

Under the current system you have taxes taken from your paycheck. Under the Fair Tax you only incur taxes on consumption. You decide how best to use your money. Earned $1500? Take home $1500.

 

[bacha29]

We need
less taxes. Less spending. Any VAT would be a disaster.

Surprise surprise! My how you changed your tune about a VAT when I challenged you to answer the kind of questions that would undoubtedly be asked at a congressional hearing on a VAT bill.

Now let's go ask Van what kind of answers he has to those questions.

 

[Fred's Myth]

Great idea! Now just where in the hell is the state going to get the money to pay the tax the federal government has levied on it?

Boy, do you need remedial reading comprehension course. Try reading slowly this time...

The State taxes its citizens to the limit its citizens have voted to permit.
The Federal government taxes the State to the limits its citizens have voted to permit.
Both State and Federal governments are required to live within their income, with the exception of declared war.
The savings to the Federal government alone on the IRS would be around $15 billion.

 

[bacha29]

Under the current system you have taxes taken from your paycheck. Under the Fair Tax you only incur taxes on consumption. You decide how best to use your money. Earned $1500? Take home $1500.

70% of the US economy is consumer spending . So here's a question for you along with the others you haven't answered . Just exactly what impact would slapping a 23% surcharge have on consumer spending?
In addition you still haven't answered the questions I asked Wally you still haven't identified the specific items that would be subject to the surcharge and those that would be exempt.

 

[Fred's Myth]

70% of the US economy is consumer spending . So here's a question for you along with the others you haven't answered . Just exactly what impact would slapping a 23% surcharge have on consumer spending?
In addition you still haven't answered the questions I asked Wally you still haven't identified the specific items that would be subject to the surcharge and those that would be exempt.

The Achilles Heel of the VAT is that it isn't added to a product one time. "A Value-Added Tax (VAT) is a consumption tax assessed on the value added in each production stage of a good or service." What is a Value-Added Tax (VAT)?

 

[bacha29]

Boy, do you need remedial reading comprehension course. Try reading slowly this time...

The State taxes its citizens to the limit its citizens have voted to permit.
The Federal government taxes the State to the limits its citizens have voted to permit.
Both State and Federal governments are required to live within their income, with the exception of declared war.
The savings to the Federal government alone on the IRS would be around $15 billion.

If the federal government taxes the state to the full limits the citizens of the state will permit then where will the state get the money to pay for state mandated services? You know, little things like schools and roads.
You plainly stated it in sentence #3.