Seniority...... who's got what???

[Bubblehead]

So should I be able to transfer into your center from a different local and have more seniority than you?......that is if I've been humping bundles longer than you as you put it

So, should I be able to converse with you, without you asking a continuous string of increasingly abstract questions, that are not germane to the issue at hand.

Case in point, what Regional Supplement or State Level Rider allows for commonplace transfers from one Local to another, for full-time employees.

What a silly question.

 

[Bubblehead]

@Whatbrownwontdoforyou, are you ready to take this movement region, if not, nationwide?

 

[Feederquacker]

Let's say that there is a Feeder driver with 360 months or 30 yrs as a Feeder driver and a Package driver with 361 months or 30 yrs and a month as a Package driver. Both drivers have stayed in their respective Classifications for the duration of their careers and now the Package driver wants to change. You are comfortable with him jumping the line in Feeder even though he has never previously held a Feeder position? How do you square that?

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

So, should I be able to converse with you, without you asking a continuous string of increasingly abstract questions, that are not germane to the issue at hand.

Case in point, what Regional Supplement or State Level Rider allows for commonplace transfers from one Local to another, for full-time employees.

What a silly question.

I didn't derail...the topic is company seniority......also I know it's sounds stupid for me to be able to transfer to your local and have more seniority than you in your center.......it wouldn't be fair to bubblehead to change a system in 2018 that everyone agreed to and voted on since 1988

 

[Bubblehead]

Let's say that there is a Feeder driver with 360 months or 30 yrs as a Feeder driver and a Package driver with 361 months or 30 yrs and a month as a Package driver. Both drivers have stayed in their respective Classifications for the duration of their careers and now the Package driver wants to change. You are comfortable with him jumping the line in Feeder even though he has never previously held a Feeder position? How do you square that?

It would be "comfortably squared" by our full time seniority in my Local.

It's termed "dovetailed".

 

[Bubblehead]

I didn't derail...the topic is company seniority......also I know it's sounds stupid for me to be able to transfer to your local and have more seniority than you in your center.......it wouldn't be fair to bubblehead to change a system in 2018 that everyone agreed to and voted on since 1988

Bubblehead wouldn't be changing anything.
It would be changed by those negotiating the contract.
What makes the decision made in 1988 absolute and beyond being challenged?
It happens every 5 years if you haven't noticed?

Under your rationale, was it "fair" for anything to have changed in the 2013 contract?
How about the progression changing for a 9 year part timer looking to go full time?
Where do you draw that line, if it can be drawn at all.

I have never subscribed to the notion that we are bound to past mistakes.

 

[East coast navy]

Let's say that there is a Feeder driver with 360 months or 30 yrs as a Feeder driver and a Package driver with 361 months or 30 yrs and a month as a Package driver. Both drivers have stayed in their respective Classifications for the duration of their careers and now the Package driver wants to change. You are comfortable with him jumping the line in Feeder even though he has never previously held a Feeder position? How do you square that?

Yes.

 

[East coast navy]

I didn't derail...the topic is company seniority......also I know it's sounds stupid for me to be able to transfer to your local and have more seniority than you in your center.......it wouldn't be fair to bubblehead to change a system in 2018 that everyone agreed to and voted on since 1988

When seniority can be voted on, it can change at any contract renewal... If the guys that are going to get affected in a negative way, should have know that a red line can only happen if the majority thinks it's ok to do so... Red lines were made for groups that wanted them as a majority. They just are not law... Red lines are ideas for members to decide on...

 

[Jones]

Let's say that there is a Feeder driver with 360 months or 30 yrs as a Feeder driver and a Package driver with 361 months or 30 yrs and a month as a Package driver. Both drivers have stayed in their respective Classifications for the duration of their careers and now the Package driver wants to change. You are comfortable with him jumping the line in Feeder even though he has never previously held a Feeder position? How do you square that?

Absolutely. Its not "jumping the line" its seniority, whether 10 years or 10 days the senior employee selects work first. What I'm not comfortable with is stripping 30 years of hard earned seniority from a fellow teamster just because he changes jobs. For the record that's not the norm at least around here, most drivers with 25+ years in package tend to stay there.

 

[Feederquacker]

Absolutely. Its not "jumping the line" its seniority, whether 10 years or 10 days the senior employee selects work first. What I'm not comfortable with is stripping 30 years of hard earned seniority from a fellow teamster just because he changes jobs. For the record that's not the norm at least around here, most drivers with 25+ years in package tend to stay there.

Perfect. The point though is that if the system that is currently in place says your Classification seniority rules, then, if you change it to mean something else, there should be protections in place to not harm anyone. Going forward it should be whatever the rule change is but for those in place currently, there should be a red circle to ensure they don't get displaced by this rule change. But to say that your version of seniority is the only right one is utter nonsense. It leads to hurt feelings and fist fights which no one wants. I hope. Everyone has to come to an understanding that there are different types of seniority over different locals and supplements. I know that our supplement covers like 9 states. All of them are under Classification seniority. For anyone to get on here and say that that isn't "real" seniority is being a maroon. Rule changes like this have accompanied a red line or red circle in the past and should going forward. Ask someone in South Carolina how it went down when the switched over thirty years ago.(if there is anyone left)

 

[East coast navy]

Perfect. The point though is that if the system that is currently in place says your Classification seniority rules, then, if you change it to mean something else, there should be protections in place to not harm anyone. Going forward it should be whatever the rule change is but for those in place currently, there should be a red circle to ensure they don't get displaced by this rule change. But to say that your version of seniority is the only right one is utter nonsense. It leads to hurt feelings and fist fights which no one wants. I hope. Everyone has to come to an understanding that there are different types of seniority over different locals and supplements. I know that our supplement covers like 9 states. All of them are under Classification seniority. For anyone to get on here and say that that isn't "real" seniority is being a maroon. Rule changes like this have accompanied a red line or red circle in the past and should going forward. Ask someone in South Carolina how it went down when the switched over thirty years ago.(if there is anyone left)

I'm not saying it's not the only way to go... I don't like classification seniority because I think it's wrong but if that's what members want who am I to say it is so... So what I'm trying to get at is why should you red line when a majority of members don't want it... Where is it written that you can never harm someone when changing language in a contract? Where is that written? Can you show me?

 

[Jones]

Perfect. The point though is that if the system that is currently in place says your Classification seniority rules, then, if you change it to mean something else, there should be protections in place to not harm anyone. Going forward it should be whatever the rule change is but for those in place currently, there should be a red circle to ensure they don't get displaced by this rule change. But to say that your version of seniority is the only right one is utter nonsense. It leads to hurt feelings and fist fights which no one wants. I hope. Everyone has to come to an understanding that there are different types of seniority over different locals and supplements. I know that our supplement covers like 9 states. All of them are under Classification seniority. For anyone to get on here and say that that isn't "real" seniority is being a maroon. Rule changes like this have accompanied a red line or red circle in the past and should going forward. Ask someone in South Carolina how it went down when the switched over thirty years ago.(if there is anyone left)

In package here we bid every year so people get their feelings hurt on the regular, never seen any fist fights though. As far as members being harmed by the switch from classification seniority to company seniority, like I said earlier I just don't see it. If you've been in feeders the whole time and have 15 years seniority you will still have 15 years seniority, the only change is that you will no longer be able to select work ahead of a driver who has worked for the company longer than you have. Ultimately though like ECN says that is up to the members. If the majority want classification seniority then that's what it will be.

 

[oldupsman]

Let's say that there is a Feeder driver with 360 months or 30 yrs as a Feeder driver and a Package driver with 361 months or 30 yrs and a month as a Package driver. Both drivers have stayed in their respective Classifications for the duration of their careers and now the Package driver wants to change. You are comfortable with him jumping the line in Feeder even though he has never previously held a Feeder position? How do you square that?

So what if he never held a a feeder position. What? Feeder drivers are God's gift to the world? And package car drivers
aren't nearly as skilled as feeder drivers and can't possibly come in and be safe? Please!

 

[oldupsman]

Nothing irks me more than feeder drivers who somehow think they're superior to package car drivers.
In my 32 years I saw plenty of bad feeder drivers.
And bad package drivers too.

 

[East coast navy]

So what if he never held a a feeder position. What? Feeder drivers are God's gift to the world? And package car drivers
aren't nearly as skilled as feeder drivers and can't possibly come in and be safe? Please!

Nothing irks me more than feeder drivers who somehow think they're superior to package car drivers.
In my 32 years I saw plenty of bad feeder drivers.
And bad package drivers too.

Local 177 has been dealing with for a long time!

 

[oldupsman]

I figured that's what this has been about from the start. You got a bunch of off the street feeder drivers with
4 or 5 years in who think they should be ahead of guys with 25 years in package because feeder
driving is SO much tougher than driving package. Yeah well, bleep them. Put your time in.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

I've purposely stayed out of this thread, just to watch the responses.


My Local recognizes company seniority. (as it should be)

I only know of one Local in the Central, that doesn't.


A 2 year guy off the street, should not have seniority, over a 25 year pkg driver.

It's as simple as that.


The funniest thing I have ever heard, was from a junior (off the street driver) claiming

"They are stealing our work"

But.... when faced with the decision of a layoff, or bumping into Pkg....

You can guess, what the guy chose.


More importantly, we shouldn't be trying to "pit" one against the other.

Put it to a vote of the membership.... and live with the results.



-Bug-

 

[Jones]

Big Chief Bug has spoken! Everybody get in line!

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Big Chief Bug has spoken! Everybody get in line!

Maybe, you could put down your cocktail.... And, cobble together a coherent point ??

WTF



-Bug-

 

[Jones]

Maybe, you could put down your cocktail.... And, cobble together a coherent point ??

WTF



-Bug-

Just joshing ya big guy