Seniority...... who's got what???

[Feederquacker]

Well whenever there is change there are strong feelings. Obviously this is the way it has always been for you folks. Just curious,
what brought about the challenge to your system.

Well, for decades in my center, our Feeder jobs had been filled by Part Timers going full time. Every three to five years a Package driver would come over. For the last ten years though, it's been only Package drivers filling those spots. Now that they are at the bottom, they want things to change. Keep in mind that none of these guys had a problem with the system we have until it worked against them. Now look... I get it. But, if they truely think it's not fair, why only speak up now? Why not say something 25 years ago? As far as having a majority not wanting red circled status, the only ones that would include are the ones pushing it and the rest of Package. The top two thirds of Feeder would want to be red circled. The opposition would have the majority but its would be divided on a particular line. I just can't see taking anyone's seniority away from them and mandating a new place in a new seniority order. Especially to the ones who have held their spot for decades.

 

[East coast navy]

Well, for decades in my center, our Feeder jobs had been filled by Part Timers going full time. Every three to five years a Package driver would come over. For the last ten years though, it's been only Package drivers filling those spots. Now that they are at the bottom, they want things to change. Keep in mind that none of these guys had a problem with the system we have until it worked against them. Now look... I get it. But, if they truely think it's not fair, why only speak up now? Why not say something 25 years ago? As far as having a majority not wanting red circled status, the only ones that would include are the ones pushing it and the rest of Package. The top two thirds of Feeder would want to be red circled. The opposition would have the majority but its would be divided on a particular line. I just can't see taking anyone's seniority away from them and mandating a new place in a new seniority order. Especially to the ones who have held their spot for decades.

The reason why the package members never pushed so far as a majority to change classification seniority to company seniority in 177 is, changing it would have to include bidding out side of classification... That's not what happens in local 177... We bid with in classification... So when a group of guys came up with the idea that you still bid with in classification but you still can carry you seniority, it spread like wild fire... So big, that package members that are in package now are getting on broad... It hasn't gotten like this in over 60 years because of that one detail that could change everything.

So to answer your question... You have to start somewhere... If a feeder street is if is in a local that has classification seniority should have known that language can change at an new contract... They should have known that...

Also, they had every right to get hired in package and work days... Instead, they work nights and get a nice job but a package driver waits a decade or more busting is bass to do the same nice job, which could not get hired to do in the beginning because he or she didn't have a CDL, is told well you didn't say anything in your beginning years and you knew coming in... So suck it up and enjoy going to the bottom... At least you can pick vacation and layoff bassed on company, which members had to fight for that in 93!

 

[Coldworld]

The reason why the packages never pushed so far as a majority to change classification seniority to company seniority in 177 is we have been told changing it would have to include bidding out side of classification... That's not what happens in local 177... We bid with in classification... So when a group of guys came up with the idea that you still bid with in classification but you still can carry you seniority, it spread like wild fire... It hasn't gotten like this in over 60 years because of that one detail that could change everything.

Are you guys going to vote on this or what happens now??

 

[East coast navy]

Are you guys going to vote on this or what happens now??

We have to wait until the contract is renegotiated then we can bring it to a vote.

 

[Feederquacker]

The reason why the package members never pushed so far as a majority to change classification seniority to company seniority in 177 is, changing it would have to include bidding out side of classification... That's not what happens in local 177... We bid with in classification... So when a group of guys came up with the idea that you still bid with in classification but you still can carry you seniority, it spread like wild fire... So big, that package members that are in package now are getting on broad... It hasn't gotten like this in over 60 years because of that one detail that could change everything.

So to answer your question... You have to start somewhere... If a feeder street is if is in a local that has classification seniority should have known that language can change at an new contract... They should have known that...

Also, they had every right to get hired in package and work days... Instead, they work nights and get a nice job but a package driver waits a decade or more busting is bass to do the same nice job, which could not get hired to do in the beginning because he or she didn't have a CDL, is told well you didn't say anything in your beginning years and you knew coming in... So suck it up and enjoy going to the bottom... At least you can pick vacation and layoff bassed on company, which members had to fight for that in 93!

Not the case here. We haven't had a street hire for Feeder in 30 years. Our Package people have had the opportunity to switch or change the language for decades but never raised the idea. Everything is based on Classification except layoffs. Job bids and vacation bids are done by Classification. Just seems like they only want to change now because they aren't getting their way.

 

[East coast navy]

Not the case here. We haven't had a street hire for Feeder in 30 years. Our Package people have had the opportunity to switch or change the language for decades but never raised the idea. Everything is based on Classification except layoffs. Job bids and vacation bids are done by Classification. Just seems like they only want to change now because they aren't getting their way.

In 177 they hire street feeder all the time... I have a 106 street guys ahead of me... I have 15 years company.

 

[Coldworld]

In 177 they hire street feeder all the time... I have a 106 street guys ahead of me... I have 15 years company.

that's bs... Did nobody from pkgs want to go feeder???

 

[rama'nfeeders]

So East Coast you have 15 years in which probably you are in the bottom half of the full time Local 177 s overall seniority list. So you want to jump the 106 street guys, but meanwhile you have approximately 2000 full time members ahead of you and they can all come into Feeders and they can continue to knock you backwards until the very last one retires. In the system you are in you only go up......what are you missing man??? Stop drinking the coolaid!!!

 

[East coast navy]

that's bs... Did nobody from pkgs want to go feeder???

That's not counting pkgs members in feeder... I will go up 106 spots.

 

[East coast navy]

So East Coast you have 15 years in which probably you are in the bottom half of the full time Local 177 s overall seniority list. So you want to jump the 106 street guys, but meanwhile you have approximately 2000 full time members ahead of you and they can all come into Feeders and they can continue to knock you backwards until the very last one retires. In the system you are in you only go up......what are you missing man??? Stop drinking the coolaid!!!

There is just under 900 feeder drivers in local 177... So if 2000 full time employees are coming into feeders, that means the company would have to transfer 2000 memebers in my next 15 years... Do you even listen to your self talk?

 

[rama'nfeeders]

The spiked coolaid is really hitting you!!! Anyone of them at anytime can come onto Feeders if in a year, 5 years and 10 and 12 can enter Feeder and knick you down the seniority list. Do you not see that potential???

 

[Inthegame]

I will go up 106 spots.

And there we have the real motivation...
Rama is trying to point out that in your present system you'll always move up, but in your proposed system you'll leapfrog those 106 and then possibly never move up again.

 

[rama'nfeeders]

Thank you IntheGame that's what alot of driver's are trying to explain to the drivers who only have 10, 15, even 20 years that you aren't in the top 1300 full time members in Local 177. I called the Hall and asked them where I stand in full time years and I was amazed how far back I was with my years. So go ahead and make that call and you will find out the TRUTH of what you want and when you hear your number you will realize the system we have works. If you want one list transfer to Local 804.

 

[oldupsman]

And there we have the real motivation...
Rama is trying to point out that in your present system you'll always move up, but in your proposed system you'll leapfrog those 106 and then possibly never move up again.

Of course he'll move up again. Nobody works forever. No matter how long they stay sooner or later they DIE.
For goodness sakes doesn't anybody in that local retire. Look, the more years you get in the less chance of
someone jumping in front of you.

My local would outright laugh at classification seniority. A guy with 5 years in bidding
in front of a guy with 20? I don't care what he's driving. It's the most stupid thing I ever heard of.

 

[Inthegame]

Of course he'll move up again. Nobody works forever. No matter how long they stay sooner or later they DIE.
For goodness sakes doesn't anybody in that local retire. Look, the more years you get in the less chance of
someone jumping in front of you.

My local would outright laugh at classification seniority. A guy with 5 years in bidding
in front of a guy with 20? I don't care what he's driving. It's the most stupid thing I ever heard of.

And changing seniority in your local wouldn't make any more sense than this as any system change after the fact screws someone.

Vote to red circle present employees and make all the changes you want, after they retire.

To your point though... this guy will most likely move up but the threat of more senior Pkg drivers jumping ahead of him will continually exist. Classification seniority removes that threat. 15 years from now, East Coast will want classification seniority.

 

[oldupsman]

To your point though... this guy will most likely move up but the threat of more senior Pkg drivers jumping ahead of him will continually exist. Classification seniority removes that threat. 15 years from now, East Coast will want classification seniority.

Well, for awhile but for how long? But we're never going to agree. I just don't see how anybody can
think it's okay for a 5 year guy to bid before a 20 year guy for anything. It goes against the whole idea of what seniority
is supposed to be. But hey, it's your local. Stay safe out there.

 

[542thruNthru]

So is this something that will be voted on by the memebers? We have classification here it's never seemed to bother anyone.

 

[rama'nfeeders]

Hey 542thruNthru what Local are you and in what part of the country??? I am very curious.

 

[542thruNthru]

Hey 542thruNthru what Local are you and in what part of the country??? I am very curious.

San Diego CA

 

[Coldworld]

That's not counting pkgs members in feeder... I will go up 106 spots.

How many feeder guys do you have total in your Dept???