Should union membership be optional?

[Catatonic]

Your point would have been made just as effectively without including the chart in your reply. Just sayin'

Actually better since New Mexico, Ohio, Colorado, Nevada, Ohio and the Dakotas are all listed as Republican when they are strong Democrat or leaning Democrat states.

These glaring mis-categorizations bring into question the validity of the chart.

What Dracula does not comprehend is that these rural areas understand this and are willing to fore go their largess to support the concept of reduced National government spending.

I have been aware of this imbalance from my teenage years when the Northern Democrats gave the Southern Dixiecrats these redistribution of wealth grants in order to buy their votes for other Socialist programs. One of these early Dixiecrats was my namesake, Hoke Smith ... that is why I was aware of this so early.
In fact, the National Income Tax was passed to generate revenue to support these Southern Dixiecrat bought programs.

I have friends in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut that I thank every time I see or talk to them. They are paying higher tax rates on their higher income to support people like me that live 9 miles from anything resembling a city while I make less and pay little taxes compared to them.
My friends in NYC (East Manhattan) pay 54% in taxes for all National, State and Local governments). That is in theory of course, they pay lawyers and tax consultants to help not pay taxes but they still paid well over a million in taxes last year.

 

[Dracula]

Yet it doesn't buy their votes. This is why Democrats never understood how so many poor people vote against their economic interests. I remember a front page newspaper article here in Missouri back in 2004, when we elected a Republican governor. The article was about poor, rural white voters who voted with the GOP because of the pro-life and lower taxes promised by this governor. First thing he did when he was sworn in was start cutting programs designed for poorer populations. These people just couldn't believe--EGADS!!--that their favorite governor would do such thing to them. Programs like Medicaid, WIC programs, Early Start, Daycare assistance, etc.

I'm not sure about your history regarding the National Income Tax, unless you remember that back in 1913. That would make you one of the oldest members on this forum. This was the 16TH Amendment to the Constitution, and it nothing to do with Southern Dixiecrats. In 1913, just what Socialist programs are you referring to? Do a simple Google search to straighten out your facts.

Also, your argument can be made in the opposite direction too. Some of those blue states lean red. And every state you mentioned except Colorado has a GOP governor, and six of those blue states have Republican controlled state assemblies.

 

[stink219]

We all pay union dues. We pay for a service provided by the teamsters. They are suppose to represent us in our workplace. But what happens when the union fails to make good on those services? I believe that if we are not getting are due services, it should not be mandatory to pay for those services. Would you pay your auto mechanic after finding out he did nothing to fix your car? Would you continue to pay for a magazine subscription if you never recieve any magazines?

Maybe if the teamsters had some motivation to represent us, they would do a better job. Fact is... they are getting paid union dues whether they represent us or dont represent us. And most sates dont have "right to work" laws to give us that choice.

So what do you think? While gaining employment with UPS, should teamsters membership be optional?

I'd ask anyone that was fired and got their job back. My opinion is that we are a union shop and I went to UPS over FedEx because of that.

 

[Bagels]

Actually better since New Mexico, Ohio, Colorado, Nevada, Ohio and the Dakotas are all listed as Republican when they are strong Democrat or leaning Democrat states.

These glaring mis-categorizations bring into question the validity of the chart.

Oh, boy.

The states you listed are Republican-leaning. Sure, I'll agree the population (in some, not all) is Democrat-leaning, but though the magic of Gerrymandering, state Congress as well as their US House are Republic-leaning. Take Ohio for example: the governorship is Republican, the state Senate has a Republican super majority and the state House is one seat away (with two races undecided, with Republicans leading both) from a Republican super majority. The entire population may be Democrat-leaning but when you stick one Representative for several million people, and multiple for a few hundred thousand, you suddenly become a Red state.

And FWIW, most Americans are increasingly supportive of socialist programs. That includes the South. Of course, the South cares much more about banning gay marriage and converting everybody to Christianity -- a strategy Newt Gingrich recognized and embraced in expediting the South to solid Republican territory.

 

[tourists24]

actually I think union membership is optional even in non RTW states.... If you want a union job you can work for UPS.... If not you can always work for Fed Ex....

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

actually I think union membership is optional even in non RTW states.... If you want a union job you can work for UPS.... If not you can always work for Fed Ex....

We do have the option of opting out of the union here--we still have to pay 99.44% of the union dues as an "agency fee".

 

[tourists24]

We do have the option of opting out of the union here--we still have to pay 99.44% of the union dues as an "agency fee".

Well yes... and here in NC you dont even have to belong at all or pay any dues.... My point was kind of if a person was so hellbent on not being in a union then they shouldnt take a union job.... they have options..... I think its the height of scumbagism to like to take that union pay but not pay the dues that goes with it.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Well yes... and here in NC you dont even have to belong at all or pay any dues.... My point was kind of if a person was so hellbent on not being in a union then they shouldnt take a union job.... they have options..... I think its the height of scumbagism to like to take that union pay but not pay the dues that goes with it.

When I was looking for a job with UPS the last thing on my mind was the union. All I wanted was a job that would help me provide for my family.

 

[tourists24]

When I was looking for a job with UPS the last thing on my mind was the union. All I wanted was a job that would help me provide for my family.

Well I can understand that for sure..... but there eventually comes a point when you realize you are in a union job. At that point you have a decision to make. Whether you are a supporter of unions or not it is a union job where all of the working conditions have been negotiated and covered with a contract. It takes funds to run that union and the least you can do is join and pay your dues. If you want no part of a union, at least imo, you should start looking for somewhere else that is non union and let that spot be filled by someone who will.

Now again I am speaking of my situation being in a right to work state..... Other places the situation will be different

 

[menotyou]

When I was looking for a job with UPS the last thing on my mind was the union. All I wanted was a job that would help me provide for my family.

A job which did that thanks the Union that negotiated your contract.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

A job which did that thanks the Union that negotiated your contract.

My point was I didn't begin my job search by looking for companies with a unionized workforce.

 

[menotyou]

My point was I didn't begin my job search by looking for companies with a unionized workforce.

My point is those whining about the union are idiots.

 

[soberups]

When I was looking for a job with UPS the last thing on my mind was the union. All I wanted was a job that would help me provide for my family.

When you accepted that job, it came with conditions that you were made aware of upfront. For instance...you would be required to maintain a valid drivers license. You would be required to shave off your beard. You would be required to wear a uniform. You would be required to work on some holidays. And....you would also be required to join a union.

I dont have a problem with anyone who finds these conditions of employment unacceptable...as long as they make that determination before accepting the job and not after.

You have shared on this forum that you live in a condominium. I am assuming when you made the choice to buy your condo, you agreed upfront to pay some sort of Homeowners Association fee and to abide by certain restrictions regarding parking, outside storage of personal items, noise, pets, etc. In return for joining the HOA and paying the monthly fee, you are no longer required to worry about items such as maintainence, painting, lawn mowing, snow removal etc. do you think it would be fair to you as a dues-paying and rule-following member if someone bought the condo next to you and then decided after the fact that, since they disagreed with the policies of the HOA, they would simply not pay dues or follow any of the rules that you do?

 

[brown_trousers]

You have shared on this forum that you live in a condominium. I am assuming when you made the choice to buy your condo, you agreed upfront to pay some sort of Homeowners Association fee and to abide by certain restrictions regarding parking, outside storage of personal items, noise, pets, etc. In return for joining the HOA and paying the monthly fee, you are no longer required to worry about items such as maintainence, painting, lawn mowing, snow removal etc. do you think it would be fair to you as a dues-paying and rule-following member if someone bought the condo next to you and then decided after the fact that, since they disagreed with the policies of the HOA, they would simply not pay dues or follow any of the rules that you do?

HOAs are the worst!

 

[bogeyball]

When I was looking for a job with UPS the last thing on my mind was the union. All I wanted was a job that would help me provide for my family.

When you accepted that job, it came with conditions that you were made aware of upfront. For instance...you would be required to maintain a valid drivers license. You would be required to shave off your beard. You would be required to wear a uniform. You would be required to work on some holidays. And....you would also be required to join a union.

I dont have a problem with anyone who finds these conditions of employment unacceptable...as long as they make that determination before accepting the job and not

All of the aforementioned is true...but one; "that joining the union is a requirement"

I chose to be in the union, had I been forced...well I probably wouldn't be responding to this thread.

Granted the union has had its heyday, and rightly so. But if you look at the ever declining membership over the years. Its usefulness is declining, and it is my belief that this phenomena is a direct correlation to its members.

I've seen this "me, me, me" attitude that works contrary to the overall mission of the union. We, my brothers are our own worst enemy!

Rank and file has progressively gotten lazier, while asking for more. Filing selfish grievances paying no mind to the "unintended consequences"....and then wondering why the hell the "company" is screwing us.

Look in the mirror friends....also, expect more states to adopt RTW legislation.

Don't be fooled by the rhetoric coming out of Hoffa and the rest...lest we forget that the union spent 23 million in Michigan campaigning to amend the state constitution to put the union over the law. It lost by 15 points....seems that money could of been better utilized elsewhere. Just saying.

 

[Dracula]

All of the aforementioned is true...but one; "that joining the union is a requirement"

I chose to be in the union, had I been forced...well I probably wouldn't be responding to this thread.

Granted the union has had its heyday, and rightly so. But if you look at the ever declining membership over the years. Its usefulness is declining, and it is my belief that this phenomena is a direct correlation to its members.

I've seen this "me, me, me" attitude that works contrary to the overall mission of the union. We, my brothers are our own worst enemy!

Rank and file has progressively gotten lazier, while asking for more. Filing selfish grievances paying no mind to the "unintended consequences"....and then wondering why the hell the "company" is screwing us.

Look in the mirror friends....also, expect more states to adopt RTW legislation.

Don't be fooled by the rhetoric coming out of Hoffa and the rest...lest we forget that the union spent 23 million in Michigan campaigning to amend the state constitution to put the union over the law. It lost by 15 points....seems that money could of been better utilized elsewhere. Just saying.

If the union goes away, your pay will go down, your benefits will wither away, and you will lose your right for redress where you have been wronged. Overnight? No, but it will come.

Does the union make mistakes and missteps? Of course. The bigger question is what are you doing about it? Do you attend meetings? Do you hold your Business Agent's feet to the fire if he deserves it? So many on this forum and at work bitch and moan about the union, but very few actually try to change things. It's so much easier to anonymously moan and complain than to actually give yourself a real hand up.

Either way, don't be stupid. If we lose or union rights, we will be the brown Fed-Ex.

 

[Grammarly1959]

I think union membership should be optional. However, if an employee chooses not to join the union, neither should he benefit from anything the union bargains for their members. Its only fair, IMO.

My son works for UPS but is thinking of switching to Fedex because he doesn't like the idea of having to (eventually) join the union. Neither of us like the idea of it being mandatory. And in case you think I know nothing about unions, I grew up in a union household with a father who was a labor union president of his local.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not against the existence of labor unions; I think they're fine for people who choose to join one. My problem is that unions (like management at times), when out of control, can be dangerous. I deliberately never chose to work for a company that was unionized because I didn't want my union dues going to fund political candidates I might not agree with. Unions have also become much more thuggish since my father's time as a union president (and they were thuggish then too!). Absolute power, whether on the side of management OR unions, corrupts absolutely.

 

[menotyou]

I think union membership should be optional. However, if an employee chooses not to join the union, neither should he benefit from anything the union bargains for their members. Its only fair, IMO.

My son works for UPS but is thinking of switching to Fedex because he doesn't like the idea of having to (eventually) join the union. Neither of us like the idea of it being mandatory. And in case you think I know nothing about unions, I grew up in a union household with a father who was a labor union president of his local.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not against the existence of labor unions; I think they're fine for people who choose to join one. My problem is that unions (like management at times), when out of control, can be dangerous. I deliberately never chose to work for a company that was unionized because I didn't want my union dues going to fund political candidates I might not agree with. Unions have also become much more thuggish since my father's time as a union president (and they were thuggish then too!). Absolute power, whether on the side of management OR unions, corrupts absolutely.

They were never 'thuggish' in my father's union. He was higher, in power.

 

[Grammarly1959]

My Dad wasn't thuggish, but a lot of the rank and file, esp. the Teamsters that the drivers in his newspaper belonged to (he was president of the Newspaper Guild).

 

[rudy5150]

It should not be optional. You either join and pay your dues or your out!