The Runner Gunner Lunch Skippers are HATING the new DOT lunch rule

['Lord Brown's bidding']

It's obvious no ones going to change your mind so go and get all you can get. Just don't get caught.

Get caught doing what?

Definitions. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

​Guys, there is no rule saying we cannot sort during lunch. It's interesting to note there isn't an allowance given for "sorting" the car, outside of the 30 in selection area. So, if I sort every shelf but the 30in selection area of the shelf am I working, even under UPS' guidelines? The wording is not very precise and vague. Again, you can't just "watch someone for 10 mins" and know for sure whether or not they are "working", because people are different (I'd hate to get fined for clearing space on a shelf for a nap).

Also, it's interesting on that site I posted that "break" used to mean one had to leave the vehicle, but it was recognized that it wasn't practical or prudent to force drivers out of their vehicles for "breaks" in areas not suitable for "rest", thus they can stay in their vehicles. Also, "rest" can be incurred just from a break in one's work routine, even if the activity is "non-rest" related. At 10-20 mins in a ten hour day, sorting is hardly part of our routine, at least not the kind one would do on a break; it's definitely not a part of my routine.

I found the definition of work time including "reporting to job-site in a readiness for work state". So, how many of you "never will I sort on my break" shine your shoes off the clock? Stretch? Look at your DIADs? Any one of these are considered part of our proper work routine, but we are not paid for them. No DOT auditor is going to ding you for doing any of them, and if they saw you in the back of your package car moving packages at a leisurely pace, sitting for 20-30 mins, they are going to ask a question before they levy a fine. Sorting packages is not what the law was intended for, and is not something they will be looking out for, necessarily. However, the vets on the board know that UPS cannot force us to sort, just as they cannot force us to run our lunches. Ultimately, it depends on one's definition of work. Sorting for me is more preparatory than actual work, although I don't sort during off-duty time; however, I reserve the right to be able do so if something I deem more important than lying in a hot car or sitting at a fast food joint or sitting by a serene lake playing my banjo lonely, with no one I love around to enjoy my playing, should come along.

 

[Upsmule]

It's obvious no ones going to change your mind so go and get all you can get. Just don't get caught.

Get caught doing what?

Definitions. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

​Guys, there is no rule saying we cannot sort during lunch. It's interesting to note there isn't an allowance given for "sorting" the car, outside of the 30 in selection area. So, if I sort every shelf but the 30in selection area of the shelf am I working, even under UPS' guidelines? The wording is not very precise and vague. Again, you can't just "watch someone for 10 mins" and know for sure whether or not they are "working", because people are different (I'd hate to get fined for clearing space on a shelf for a nap).

Also, it's interesting on that site I posted that "break" used to mean one had to leave the vehicle, but it was recognized that it wasn't practical or prudent to force drivers out of their vehicles for "breaks" in areas not suitable for "rest", thus they can stay in their vehicles. Also, "rest" can be incurred just from a break in one's work routine, even if the activity is "non-rest" related. At 10-20 mins in a ten hour day, sorting is hardly part of our routine, at least not the kind one would do on a break; it's definitely not a part of my routine.

I found the definition of work time including "reporting to job-site in a readiness for work state". So, how many of you "never will I sort on my break" shine your shoes off the clock? Stretch? Look at your DIADs? Any one of these are considered part of our proper work routine, but we are not paid for them. No DOT auditor is going to ding you for doing any of them, and if they saw you in the back of your package car moving packages at a leisurely pace, sitting for 20-30 mins, they are going to ask a question before they levy a fine. Sorting packages is not what the law was intended for, and is not something they will be looking out for, necessarily. However, the vets on the board know that UPS cannot force us to sort, just as they cannot force us to run our lunches. Ultimately, it depends on one's definition of work. Sorting for me is more preparatory than actual work, although I don't sort during off-duty time; however, I reserve the right to be able do so if something I deem more important than lying in a hot car or sitting at a fast food joint or sitting by a serene lake playing my banjo lonely, with no one I love around to enjoy my playing, should come along.

What he said.

 

[soberups]

There is a large equestrian facility on my route that boards horses, offers riding lessons, and has barrel-racing fields and pastures and covered riding arenas. Its situated on both sides of a gravel road and its a big place, maybe half a mile long.

The speed limit on the county road is 35 MPH but only an would drive through there that fast. In the summer you would kick up way too much dust and scare the hell out of the horses. I make it a point to roll through there at 5MPH while politely waving at everyone. Sometimes there will be people actually riding horses on the road, because part of the training process for a young horse is to get it accustomed to auto traffic. When I see horses approaching, I pull over immediately and shut the motor off until it rider waves at me to proceed forward. Some of the horses are used to trucks and others arent so I do this just to be safe. Because of this courtesy, I am entitled to pull in there at any time whether I have a delivery or not to use the restroom and refill my water bottle, which comes in real handy in a rural area. Over the years that I have delivered that area, I would "guesstimate" that I have probably "lost" about an hour of UPS productivity time due to driving slow, shutting engine off etc.

A couple years ago one night during the winter, I was driving on that road maybe 5 mph faster than I should have been and a deer jumped in front of me. There was about 3" of snow on the ground with ice underneath, I overcorrected, and wound up putting the car in the ditch. No damage, but I was stuck and going nowhere. Had I called the center, it would have been at least 2 hours before they could have gotten a tow truck up there, and probably $200 or so in charges. So instead of calling...I walked 1/4 of a mile to the equestrian center and knocked on the owners door. She was in the middle of eating dinner in her flannel nightgown, but without hesitation she threw on a parka and a pair of muck boots and drove me back up to my package car in her 1-ton 4x4 pickup where she proceeded to pull me out of that ditch in less than a minute. She did this because, in her eyes, I was the polite UPS guy who always waved and drove past her place every day at 5MPH to keep the dust down and avoid scaring her horses. That hour or so of "wasted" time I racked up over the years driving so slow? It was nothing compared to how much money UPS saved that night in lost time and tow bills.

The moral to this story for you "runner-gunners" is this; Karma is a BITCH, but it up to you to decide whether she is your bitch or someone elses.

 

[cachsux]

Get caught doing what?

Ultimately, it depends on one's definition of work.

You answered your own question.


And apparently you can read the mind of a DOT agent? "No DOT auditor is going to ding you for doing any of them"

All it takes is for someone, UPS or DOT, to have a hard-on and they'll determine that you were working instead of taking a break and you'll face discipline and or a fine.

If the ivory tower at UPS says ding them then bet your check they'll be good little soldiers protecting their own ass at your expense to ding you on a report.

As far as a DOT agent do you really think they'll give a flip of what YOUR interpretation of work is? They'll take a pic of you in the back touching a box, check your DIAD and see that it says your on break, and they'll break out the pen. File a report. fine UPS (like the DOT ivory tower won't be out to rack up some fines), fine you. UPS won't like the fine and you'll be disciplined by the very mgmt group that says Good Job any other 364 days out of the year.

NO ONE will fall on a sword for you so it's up to YOU to make the right choice. Don't want to? No big loss for us. Do what you want.

 

[oldngray]

There is a large equestrian facility on my route that boards horses, offers riding lessons, and has barrel-racing fields and pastures and covered riding arenas. Its situated on both sides of a gravel road and its a big place, maybe half a mile long.

The speed limit on the county road is 35 MPH but only an would drive through there that fast. In the summer you would kick up way too much dust and scare the hell out of the horses. I make it a point to roll through there at 5MPH while politely waving at everyone. Sometimes there will be people actually riding horses on the road, because part of the training process for a young horse is to get it accustomed to auto traffic. When I see horses approaching, I pull over immediately and shut the motor off until it rider waves at me to proceed forward. Some of the horses are used to trucks and others arent so I do this just to be safe. Because of this courtesy, I am entitled to pull in there at any time whether I have a delivery or not to use the restroom and refill my water bottle, which comes in real handy in a rural area. Over the years that I have delivered that area, I would "guesstimate" that I have probably "lost" about an hour of UPS productivity time due to driving slow, shutting engine off etc.

A couple years ago one night during the winter, I was driving on that road maybe 5 mph faster than I should have been and a deer jumped in front of me. There was about 3" of snow on the ground with ice underneath, I overcorrected, and wound up putting the car in the ditch. No damage, but I was stuck and going nowhere. Had I called the center, it would have been at least 2 hours before they could have gotten a tow truck up there, and probably $200 or so in charges. So instead of calling...I walked 1/4 of a mile to the equestrian center and knocked on the owners door. She was in the middle of eating dinner in her flannel nightgown, but without hesitation she threw on a parka and a pair of muck boots and drove me back up to my package car in her 1-ton 4x4 pickup where she proceeded to pull me out of that ditch in less than a minute. She did this because, in her eyes, I was the polite UPS guy who always waved and drove past her place every day at 5MPH to keep the dust down and avoid scaring her horses. That hour or so of "wasted" time I racked up over the years driving so slow? It was nothing compared to how much money UPS saved that night in lost time and tow bills.

The moral to this story for you "runner-gunners" is this; Karma is a BITCH, but it up to you to decide whether she is your bitch or someone elses.

Exactly. Take care of your customers and they will take care of you. I can't count the times I had customers pull me out when I was stuck.

 

[cachsux]

What he said.

Fine. Keep it up. I'll high-five ya in the morning at the start of the day and or shake your hand and say Tough Break when they walk you out.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

You answered your own question.


And apparently you can read the mind of a DOT agent? "No DOT auditor is going to ding you for doing any of them"

All it takes is for someone, UPS or DOT, to have a hard-on and they'll determine that you were working instead of taking a break and you'll face discipline and or a fine.

If the ivory tower at UPS says ding them then bet your check they'll be good little soldiers protecting their own ass at your expense to ding you on a report.

As far as a DOT agent do you really think they'll give a flip of what YOUR interpretation of work is? They'll take a pic of you in the back touching a box, check your DIAD and see that it says your on break, and they'll break out the pen. File a report. fine UPS (like the DOT ivory tower won't be out to rack up some fines), fine you. UPS won't like the fine and you'll be disciplined by the very mgmt group that says Good Job any other 364 days out of the year.

NO ONE will fall on a sword for you so it's up to YOU to make the right choice. Don't want to? No big loss for us. Do what you want.

Cach, where anywhere on the DOT site does it even mention packages? Sorting? We don't load or unload our trucks, and sorting is not loading. Again, laws are generally explicit, if they aren't one can't just apply it how they see it without investigating first. Where are we explicitly​ forbidden from sorting? You assume as much as I do.

 

[Jones]

Cach, where anywhere on the DOT site does it even mention packages? Sorting? We don't load or unload our trucks, and sorting is not loading. Again, laws are generally explicit, if they aren't one can't just apply it how they see it. Where are we explicitly​ forbidden from sorting?

If you're in your work area doing work related stuff you're working. You're not on break.

 

[hellfire]

Fine. Keep it up. I'll high-five ya in the morning at the start of the day and or shake your hand and say Tough Break when they walk you out.

im allmost at 29 yrs as a runner, ups does not fire runners, you people need to quit perpetuating that lie

 

[oldngray]

UPS never fires runners. Until something happens and then the runners will get no thanks for their hard work.

 

[cachsux]

Cach, where anywhere on the DOT site does it even mention packages? Sorting? We don't load or unload our trucks, and sorting is not loading. Again, laws are generally explicit, if they aren't one can't just apply it how they see it without investigating first. Where are we explicitly​ forbidden from sorting? You assume as much as I do.

I'm not trying to talk you out of it. Go with it. And when UPS or DOT interpret it different from you then remember it's on you. Put your brown pants on and live by your decision.

 

[over9five]

Cach, where anywhere on the DOT site does it even mention packages? Sorting? We don't load or unload our trucks, and sorting is not loading. Again, laws are generally explicit, if they aren't one can't just apply it how they see it without investigating first. Where are we explicitly​ forbidden from sorting? You assume as much as I do.

It doesn't mention sorting, but it defines "on duty time" and "off duty time". Sorting would be considered an on duty activity. To suggest otherwise is just making yourself look silly.

 

[cachsux]

im allmost at 29 yrs as a runner, ups does not fire runners until they're ass is in a wringer, you people need to quit perpetuating that lie

Go for it. Run twice as fast. Have fun. Enjoy.

P.s. I've seen runners walked out. I guess I must be lying to myself.

My only interest in it is if some of you are higher on the board than me. I want your vacation time.

 

[728ups]

im allmost at 29 yrs as a runner, ups does not fire runners, you people need to quit perpetuating that lie

seen quite a few fired when they fudge numbers orhave wrecks that are determined to have been caused by reckless driving .
This is the NEW UPS,and the old mindsets so many have on this forum will get one fired

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

This isn't about "working" off the clock that can be revealed by auditing records; the very act itself may or may not be work, depending on perspective. And in regards to your assertion that a DOT auditor doesn't care about one's interpretation of the law, again, concluding that sorting is prohibited by the law is but one's interpretation, for no where is that explicitly found.

Why must we split hairs? Don't sort on your lunch, but don't report me to the DOT or mgmt if I do, nevermind I probably wouldn't be in any trouble unless it can be proven I was coerced into doing so. Mind your business.

As for the repeated assertion that "skipping one's lunch robs others of FT jobs, or screws the cover with a performance standard one cannot repeat". For starters, already pointed out there are a couple of types who skip their lunch: those who feel they have to, and those who do so because they want to. No one here is defending those who feel they have to, and for those who want to, this law won't change anything for them, nor do I think they should sacrifice their family time so some PTmer can get a job. Few signed up for this gig to work extremely long hours, and probably few are doing this for the union-experience. Everyone's motives are different, and provided nothing overtly wrong is being done, to each their own. Shoot, in a bonus center even working through one's lunch isn't necessarily "evil", since they get that time back. Making them take their lunch forces them to work an additional hour, but it won't lead to a part-timer getting a job. That's the problem when people engage in these scenarios; they don't look at the real picture, only the "numbers"; that's what I.E. does, remember? Pigeon-hole all of us into being the same based off numbers?

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

seen quite a few fired when they fudge numbers orhave wrecks that are determined to have been caused by reckless driving .
This is the NEW UPS,and the old mindsets so many have on this forum will get one fired

You assume that's why they were driving reckless, and true "gunners" don't have to fudge numbers. In fact, why would they fudge numbers? That sounds like someone trying to stay off a report. That's not a runner; that's a desperate person.

 

[soberups]

. BTW, I have the best center manager in the world. And that means everything at this job as we all know.

Having a good center manager means nothing.

Dont get me wrong...I have a great center manager right now and its nice...but I have been through probably 10 or 15 of 'em in my time here and I will probably have a few more before I finally retire. They are transient figures. Some of them were great. Some of them were flat out ass holes. Some of them were totally incompetent. As long as my paycheck clears the bank every Friday, it doesnt really matter too much to me one way or the other. I was here before they showed up and I will still be here after they are gone.

 

[cachsux]

This isn't about "working" off the clock that can be revealed by auditing records; the very act itself may or may not be work, depending on perspective. And in regards to your assertion that a DOT auditor doesn't care about one's interpretation of the law, again, concluding that sorting is prohibited by the law is but one's interpretation, for no where is that explicitly found.

Why must we split hairs? Don't sort on your lunch, but don't report me to the DOT or mgmt if I do, nevermind I probably wouldn't be in any trouble unless it can be proven I was coerced into doing so. Mind your business.

As for the repeated assertion that "skipping one's lunch robs others of FT jobs, or screws the cover with a performance standard one cannot repeat". For starters, already pointed out there are a couple of types who skip their lunch: those who feel they have to, and those who do so because they want to. No one here is defending those who feel they have to, and for those who want to, this law won't change anything for them, nor do I think they should sacrifice their family time so some PTmer can get a job. Few signed up for this gig to work extremely long hours, and probably few are doing this for the union-experience. Everyone's motives are different, and provided nothing overtly wrong is being done, to each their own. Shoot, in a bonus center even working through one's lunch isn't necessarily "evil", since they get that time back. Making them take their lunch forces them to work an additional hour, but it won't lead to a part-timer getting a job. That's the problem when people engage in these scenarios; they don't look at the real picture, only the "numbers"; that's what I.E. does, remember? Pigeon-hole all of us into being the same based off numbers?

You're getting your panties in a bundle because you think we're trying to make you stop. We're just tossing out advice. YOU will make the choice and YOU will suffer the consequences.

We know the mindset of mgmt because from experience we've seen the actions they've on other things when the crap hits the fan and those didn't have a federal law behind it.

 

[cachsux]

Having a good center manager means nothing.

Dont get me wrong...I have a great center manager right now and its nice...but I have been through probably 10 or 15 of 'em in my time here and I will probably have a few more before I finally retire. They are transient figures. Some of them were great. Some of them were flat out ass holes. Some of them were totally incompetent. As long as my paycheck clears the bank every Friday, it doesnt really matter too much to me one way or the other. I was here before they showed up and I will still be here after they are gone.

And every one of them will jump out of the way when the bus comes through because they have familys to provide for and jobs to try and keep.

 

[soberups]

I'm not going to sit here and self-righteously claim that I have never skipped my lunch.

What I will do...is sit here and self-righteously claim that on the few occasions when I did skip my lunch, at least I had the integrity to be honest about it and enter "lunch 12:00-12:00" in the DIAD so that I wasnt working for free or falsifying my timecard.

We all have families, we all have lives, and we have all wound up skipping our lunch or break for whatever reason. Ive done it. Its wrong. I'm not going to apologize for it, nor am I going to try to justify it. But if you are going to do it for whatever reason, then at least have the balls to accurately record it on your time card. If that means taking some heat from your supervisor the next day, then grow a friend///ing pair and take the heat. Dont be a liar and dont be a scared little bitch who skips lunch and then enters an hour just to keep from being overallowed on a stupid report.