The Trump Election and FedEx

[bbsam]

No, you miss my point. Bacha repeatedly has said if we don't believe in various Democrat created programs we shouldn't receive any benefit from them. OK, only Democrats should pay for them then if we can't participate.

I think he is suggesting that you, as far right and seemingly to blame Democrats for EVERYTHING bad in this country, really personally benefit more from their policies than the Republican policies.

Consider where you would be without left leaning policies. Not better off. You know how I know? Because this country has been far, far right of center since the 1980s. By what true measure can you and I and all the other working stiffs say we are better off than the blue collar families of the 60s and 70s?

Trump speaks to this and I hope he follows through. But I think we live in another world now and the America he wants back is long gone. There is no simple going back without massive and painful upheaval.

 

[vantexan]

Really van? You really should take a business class sometime. No business with any decent accountant pays anything close to 35%. Not even close. As our accountant once told me, tax code is written by business for business. Accountants are just there to apply the code to the business' specific circumstances.

Yes, they pass on taxes to consumers. But they still pay that bill to the government rather than keeping it for themselves, which could be used for expansion, R&D, etc. Businesses certainly should pay taxes, but reducing taxes increases economic activity, creates jobs, and ultimately increases gov't revenue.

 

[bbsam]

National debt was at 9 trillion at the end of GWB's presidency. And he spent plenty. The spending under Obama has gone way beyond saving us from the recession. And I agree, with plenty of Republican support in Congress. When are you going to realize you can't spend your way out of every problem? Might get away with it for awhile but the bills are coming due. The only real chance we have of getting out from under is making the U.S. the premier country for investment with a strong economy. Money will pour in from all over the world if they see real rewards for risking their money, which will never happen with the welfare state we're becoming.

We already have the strongest country and economy in the world.

And with massive debt, there is NO excuse for tax cuts. None. Zero.

Go ahead and deregulate. LOL. I guarantee there will be nothing to save the common man (you and me) but a welfare state. Ask any Ground ISP here. They'll give you the low down on how the capitalist system works. All money to the top. What they don't get this year, find a way to get next year. You see it happen at Express. Imagine if they no longer had to provide health care. No union protection, no pesky government to get in their way...and all along there's van cheering on Smith and Trump and blaming Obama (?) for forcing a terrible economy to which the Republican leaders have no choice but to stick it in your rear...again...and again...and again.

 

[bbsam]

Yes, they pass on taxes to consumers. But they still pay that bill to the government rather than keeping it for themselves, which could be used for expansion, R&D, etc. Businesses certainly should pay taxes, but reducing taxes increases economic activity, creates jobs, and ultimately increases gov't revenue.

That's a very old theory and one that has had one constant--higher stock prices and profit margins. It hasn't gotten you or me a substantial raise. When that topic comes up, you'll hear jabber of "uncertainty in the market". That means "no raise for you".

 

[bacha29]

You've got that backwards. It's the highest it's been since WWII. Look it up.

In 1948 the federal deficit as a percentage of GDP was 4.50%. In 2016 is was 3.2%. from 1948-2016 the average was 2.11% The worst year was 2009 when it was 9.80% No need to ask what happened that year.

 

[vantexan]

I think he is suggesting that you, as far right and seemingly to blame Democrats for EVERYTHING bad in this country, really personally benefit more from their policies than the Republican policies.

Consider where you would be without left leaning policies. Not better off. You know how I know? Because this country has been far, far right of center since the 1980s. By what true measure can you and I and all the other working stiffs say we are better off than the blue collar families of the 60s and 70s?

Trump speaks to this and I hope he follows through. But I think we live in another world now and the America he wants back is long gone. There is no simple going back without massive and painful upheaval.

If only it were that simple. The unions of the 60's and 70's constantly pushed for more and more. Heck, look at the constant grumbling of the UPS drivers on this forum. There's plenty of blame to go around, it's never just one side. As long as they keep their word, big if, then I think FedEx has gone a long way towards correcting the pay problem with the new pay plan. Too late for me, and they really did screw over a lot of people. But the young couriers will have decent pay. But look how many here speak of the plan. It's not enough according to them. If Express still drove the big stepvans and handled tons of boxes like we used to pre-Ground they'd have a case. But what we do now is pretty fairly covered by the new plan IMO. Same with welfare. Millions of people are used to the gov't meeting their needs. Fine for a stop gap measure between jobs, but not a lifestyle. Bottom line companies should strive to provide a living wage and people should accept that wage without constantly pushing for unrealistic high pay. Higher pay should reflect achievement, not be an inalienable right.

 

[bbsam]

Bottom line companies should strive to provide a living wage and people should accept that wage without constantly pushing for unrealistic high pay. Higher pay should reflect achievement, not be an inalienable right.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think a living wage is?

 

[vantexan]

That's a very old theory and one that has had one constant--higher stock prices and profit margins. It hasn't gotten you or me a substantial raise. When that topic comes up, you'll hear jabber of "uncertainty in the market". That means "no raise for you".

No, what we've had for some time is a system that benefits Wall Street and corporate exec's WITHOUT increased economic activity that provides opportunities for everyone else. The economy is stagnant, not robust, and taxes are a major cause of that.

 

[vantexan]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think a living wage is?

If I'm working a strict 40 then the top pay on my payscale is very decent for the city I live in. I think it's $26.31hr. 9 years to reach that is reasonable if inflation is low. If one wants more than that they should get the education or training that will improve their situation.

 

[vantexan]

In 1948 the federal deficit as a percentage of GDP was 4.50%. In 2016 is was 3.2%. from 1948-2016 the average was 2.11% The worst year was 2009 when it was 9.80% No need to ask what happened that year.

I think I'm thinking debt, not deficit.

 

[vantexan]

We already have the strongest country and economy in the world.

And with massive debt, there is NO excuse for tax cuts. None. Zero.

Go ahead and deregulate. LOL. I guarantee there will be nothing to save the common man (you and me) but a welfare state. Ask any Ground ISP here. They'll give you the low down on how the capitalist system works. All money to the top. What they don't get this year, find a way to get next year. You see it happen at Express. Imagine if they no longer had to provide health care. No union protection, no pesky government to get in their way...and all along there's van cheering on Smith and Trump and blaming Obama (?) for forcing a terrible economy to which the Republican leaders have no choice but to stick it in your rear...again...and again...and again.

You sound very different from the bbsam that argued years ago that everything was pretty straightforward in your contract with FedEx and you were in control of your business. I'm not cheering on the corporate wolves who've turned this country into their playground. The one thing that means anything to them is money. That's why I point out we could bring them to the bargaining table if we refused to participate in the 401k system. They could learn to live with less while paying us decently but it falls on deaf ears. The document that our political system developed from was the Magna Carta. In it the English nobles forced the king to share power with them. Took winning a battle to get that done. If people don't fight with every means legally available to them to correct a wrong, then they shouldn't complain.

 

[vantexan]

If I'm working a strict 40 then the top pay on my payscale is very decent for the city I live in. I think it's $26.31hr. 9 years to reach that is reasonable if inflation is low. If one wants more than that they should get the education or training that will improve their situation.

Of course if you have a stagnant economy you have limited opportunity to improve your situation.

 

[overflowed]

If only it were that simple. The unions of the 60's and 70's constantly pushed for more and more. Heck, look at the constant grumbling of the UPS drivers on this forum. There's plenty of blame to go around, it's never just one side. As long as they keep their word, big if, then I think FedEx has gone a long way towards correcting the pay problem with the new pay plan. Too late for me, and they really did screw over a lot of people. But the young couriers will have decent pay. But look how many here speak of the plan. It's not enough according to them. If Express still drove the big stepvans and handled tons of boxes like we used to pre-Ground they'd have a case. But what we do now is pretty fairly covered by the new plan IMO. Same with welfare. Millions of people are used to the gov't meeting their needs. Fine for a stop gap measure between jobs, but not a lifestyle. Bottom line companies should strive to provide a living wage and people should accept that wage without constantly pushing for unrealistic high pay. Higher pay should reflect achievement, not be an inalienable right.

My friend, you have lost your mind over this election. I hear the UPS guys grumbling over minor things compared to Fedex gripes. Are they gonna make us work Saturday ground? This sort of thing. I hear nothing about pay or benefits. All working people will gripe about work. Human nature. The new pay plan? I have left, but from the vibe I got, they are lying as usual.

 

[overflowed]

I can't stand either of them but my vote went to the better evil I felt wouldn't burn the country into the ground. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[vantexan]

My friend, you have lost your mind over this election. I hear the UPS guys grumbling over minor things compared to Fedex gripes. Are they gonna make us work Saturday ground? This sort of thing. I hear nothing about pay or benefits. All working people will gripe about work. Human nature. The new pay plan? I have left, but from the vibe I got, they are lying as usual.

Sorry, but I've seen them gripe that current pay isn't enough at UPS. Of course we have greater reason to grumble at FedEx and no, I don't trust our executives. But, as I said, if they keep their word with this new pay plan then in my opinion it's fair for what we do. In spite of all they have at UPS it's most likely when the contract is up they'll push for more because they have a union. Will be interesting if FedEx Ground keeps taking market share if they will make concessions to UPS or insist on more money.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

You've got that backwards. It's the highest it's been since WWII. Look it up.

As a percentage of GDP?

 

[bbsam]

You sound very different from the bbsam that argued years ago that everything was pretty straightforward in your contract with FedEx and you were in control of your business. I'm not cheering on the corporate wolves who've turned this country into their playground. The one thing that means anything to them is money. That's why I point out we could bring them to the bargaining table if we refused to participate in the 401k system. They could learn to live with less while paying us decently but it falls on deaf ears. The document that our political system developed from was the Magna Carta. In it the English nobles forced the king to share power with them. Took winning a battle to get that done. If people don't fight with every means legally available to them to correct a wrong, then they shouldn't complain.

I am the same. They have changed.

 

[vantexan]

I am the same. They have changed.

And we used to say on this forum wait until they start doing to you contractors what they're doing to us.

 

[bbsam]

And we used to say on this forum wait until they start doing to you contractors what they're doing to us.

Yes. Again, they changed, not me.

 

[bacha29]

And we used to say on this forum wait until they start doing to you contractors what they're doing to us.

They're already do it.At the barn I hauled out of they have eliminated all hourly temps except 2. Ctr's now have to line up their own reserve machines and manpower. Of course they are losing their nuts on them .As a result they are locked into practically mortal combat trying to dump stops and work areas onto one another. In the past the temps hired through the staffing agency made decent made decent hourly wage and they were paid OT. Not many would accept the perdiem deal ctr's offered. So to no one's surprise I got call yesterday to come out and help. My answer?....."Too bad boys. I kept you all informed of upcoming developments and how they could be easily postponed until January but you acted like you didn't want me around anymore so I just simply moved on. "