Time to go

[Coldworld]

This couldn't be farther from the truth. One is a bright young man. Bagels is a bright young man.

Every 6 months or so someone like bagels comes on here and thinks they have all the answers..thinks they know everything about ups because they have worked here for 22 months...they come stir the pot then leave...you have seen it before 407...right???bagles will be no different than the rest..here one minute and gone the next.

 

[Catatonic]

Every 6 months or so someone like bagels comes on here and thinks they have all the answers..thinks they know everything about ups because they have worked here for 22 months...they come stir the pot then leave...you have seen it before 407...right???bagles will be no different than the rest..here one minute and gone the next.

​Yep, the one's that stay don't have the answers.

 

[Bagels]

Every 6 months or so someone like bagels comes on here and thinks they have all the answers..thinks they know everything about ups because they have worked here for 22 months...they come stir the pot then leave...you have seen it before 407...right???bagles will be no different than the rest..here one minute and gone the next.

The person stirring the pot is you, not me. If you disagree with an assertion I've made, I welcome you to provide a rebuttal, instead of launching personal attacks against me. Weren't you taught as a youngster to "attack the argument, not the person?" Generally, when people are unable to do the former, they choose the latter.

 

[grgrcr88]

Everything being grieved about is what lead UPS into maintaining its status as a highly profitable, highly productive, highly successful company despite turbulent times & high labor costs. I know it's hard for the "old timers" to accept -- whether they're hourly or management -- but you're benefiting (financially) from the company's success and there's a line of "newbies" ready, willing and able to do your job. There's no turning back at this point.

Your obviously not in an operations position. There is no one waiting to take my or any other drivers place in my building. They can't get anyone to drive no matter what they pay them!

 

[East coast navy]

UPS could have Richard Trumka as CEO and the company still would not provide a play-by-play of contract negotiations. I'm pretty ignorant of how UPS corporate operates, but I'm sure contract negotiations fall under the Labor Relations/HR department and Davis isn't exactly sitting at the table for them. I have mixed feelings about how the IBT handled negotiations, but -- to be honest -- I prefer UPS not providing any details to our members about contract negotiations.

The TNT deal fell through because the European Union blocked it under their anti-trust regulations, which are a lot more stringent there than it is in the US.

The "management techniques" you mention have been in play before UPS went public and got substantially worse afterward. That ain't changing while UPS is a publicly traded company.

I don't really see how you can list these reasons as ousting the CEO. It doesn't matter who the CEO of UPS is, I'd still probably hate him.

You are right on all your points but one. Management techniques. Scott Davis is the big reason for this issue. Don't get me wrong. They were in place for year but he is the reason it got worse. Giving drivers warning letters for the craziest things. Union BA's saying they haven't seen it this bad ever. This is what happens when you put a accountant at the helm of the company. Penny pinching everything.

There where audits done in 09 where they found that they can save millions of dollars a year by cutting are turkeys and morning coffee. Hell they even found that they can save 1.5 million a year to cut the lights off in the vending machines.

​ It's good to save money but when the troops aren't happen. That's like buying a race car and putting stock parts in it.

 

[Bagels]

Your obviously not in an operations position. There is no one waiting to take my or any other drivers place in my building. They can't get anyone to drive no matter what they pay them!

LOL! This is what we call a logical fallacy. Despite PTers reporting waits of more than 10 years to go into FT driving in most locations, you truly believe UPS "..can't get anyone to drive no matter what they pay them!" Same's true on the operational managerial side: Most PT supervisors have reported long waits to go into FT management (typically 'you're near the top of the list for a promotion ... there's just no jobs available.') Same's true on the professional side: There's literally a handful of jobs available systemwide, despite UPS being one of the world's largest companies. Contrast that with smaller, similar companies such as FedEx which has oodles of openings. If UPS were truly under-compensating its employee groups, there's simply no way this would be true. UPS may not be the place it was years ago. But UPS pays significantly more than its competition for similar jobs requisitioning similar skill sets sets.

Comments about the hostile work environment that UPS is coupled with low pay are just flat out silly. If you believe this to be true, then take yourself to a higher-paying employer that provides a better work culture (unfortunately, Camelot only exists in fiction). UPS may not be a fun place to work. But it compensates its employees (sans PTers in the early reigns of their careers) well and money talks.

And quite honestly, all the FT drivers earning in excess of $30/hour (plus full no-cost health & welfare benefits) who believe nobody could replicate their work performance and/or nobody else would work for the wage they earn really needs to get over themselves.

 

[Coldworld]

​Yep, the one's that stay don't have the answers.

We all know upstate left a hole in your heart when he left....looks like you have made a new friend..I know you are pissed that Dave was run off...admit it.

 

[Coldworld]

The person stirring the pot is you, not me. If you disagree with an assertion I've made, I welcome you to provide a rebuttal, instead of launching personal attacks against me. Weren't you taught as a youngster to "attack the argument, not the person?" Generally, when people are unable to do the former, they choose the latter.

 

[Coldworld]

LOL! This is what we call a logical fallacy. Despite PTers reporting waits of more than 10 years to go into FT driving in most locations, you truly believe UPS "..can't get anyone to drive no matter what they pay them!" Same's true on the operational managerial side: Most PT supervisors have reported long waits to go into FT management (typically 'you're near the top of the list for a promotion ... there's just no jobs available.') Same's true on the professional side: There's literally a handful of jobs available systemwide, despite UPS being one of the world's largest companies. Contrast that with smaller, similar companies such as FedEx which has oodles of openings. If UPS were truly under-compensating its employee groups, there's simply no way this would be true. UPS may not be the place it was years ago. But UPS pays significantly more than its competition for similar jobs requisitioning similar skill sets sets.

Comments about the hostile work environment that UPS is coupled with low pay are just flat out silly. If you believe this to be true, then take yourself to a higher-paying employer that provides a better work culture (unfortunately, Camelot only exists in fiction). UPS may not be a fun place to work. But it compensates its employees (sans PTers in the early reigns of their careers) well and money talks.

And quite honestly, all the FT drivers earning in excess of $30/hour (plus full no-cost health & welfare benefits) who believe nobody could replicate their work performance and/or nobody else would work for the wage they earn really needs to get over themselves.

you really need to tone down the fancy talk...remember, we are just dumb truck drivers and don't understand most of what you're saying..and regarding your statement on other jobs not paying as well as ups, Mrs.cold and colds brother both work at union employment and are paid in the general ballpark as ups drivers and either huge up with 1/10 of the crap that this company pulls.on a side note, when yo"rebutt" this try to keep it undetermined a few paragraphs....dumb truck drivers loose focus easily...thks

 

[Bagels]

you really need to tone down the fancy talk...remember, we are just dumb truck drivers and don't understand most of what you're saying..and regarding your statement on other jobs not paying as well as ups, Mrs.cold and colds brother both work at union employment and are paid in the general ballpark as ups drivers and either huge up with 1/10 of the crap that this company pulls.on a side note, when yo"rebutt" this try to keep it undetermined a few paragraphs....dumb truck drivers loose focus easily...thks

Are you done making an out of yourself yet? (P.S. there's a difference between "most" and "all.")

 

[Buck Fifty]

How much longer do we have ?

 

[The Milkman]

(I'm writing this as a generalization -- e.g. not targeting/referring to you or any other person.)

How many comparable operational management positions to UPS offer similar pay & benefits, without requiring a graduate-level (let alone a four-year) degree? Virtually all employees, sans PTers in the early reigns of their careers, benefit financially from working here. And there's oodles of persons who are enjoying successful careers in operational management only because they're pieces of a puzzle in UPS's top-down centralized management system.



I think it's sickening that we live in a society in which companies like Walmart pay 10-year, FT employees less than $10/hour - and price benefit co-premiums so high, few bite - while meanwhile executive compensation soars so that the CEO of Home Depot walked away with $200M after "leading" his company to failure. But people are ignorant, and that doesn't change status quo -- that if you want hgh-quality exec talent, you're going to have to pay for it. At least at UPS most of us are enjoying in the company's financial success. If the BOD had hired a lower cost, passive CEO, we wouldn't be looking at nearly $4 in raises & continued no-cost benefits over the next five years.[/QUOTE]

You forgot to mention that retiree's will have costs for benefits, These benefits should be across the board for everyone.You retire with a package, only to find out that possibly what you were told to expect may change in the future

 

[Bagels]

You forgot to mention that retiree's will have costs for benefits, These benefits should be across the board for everyone.You retire with a package, only to find out that possibly what you were told to expect may change in the future

Few private-sector employers offer health insurance to retirees. According to Towers Watson, the number has fallen to less than 15% today, down from 66% in 1988. And the companies that do offer such insurance typically mandate the retiree foot nearly the entire premium -- the average retiree under 65 pays nearly $10,000 for individual coverage and $20,000 for family (typically just him & his spouse at that point) coverage. And we're complaining about what amount again???

The grievances being aired -- that UPS is somehow screwing its employees with crappy compensation -- are faux and demonstrate just how out of touch with the realities of the job market status quo many BrownCafe members are.

 

[Catatonic]

We all know upstate left a hole in your heart when he left....looks like you have made a new friend..I know you are pissed that Dave was run off...admit it.

Actually, active moderation went down quite a bit until Cheryl started the TROLL stuff.

Now we got goofballs reporting anyone they disagree with as trolls.

Dave was a bit hard on newbies but I did appreciate his logical and skeptical approach when looking at business, union and UPS issues.

He would be a leftist in a RTW state so I really thought he was a bit of a liberal.

But, as you say, I did enjoy his mental jousting with the sheep.

 

[Buck Fifty]

(I'm writing this as a generalization -- e.g. not targeting/referring to you or any other person.)

How many comparable operational management positions to UPS offer similar pay & benefits, without requiring a graduate-level (let alone a four-year) degree? Virtually all employees, sans PTers in the early reigns of their careers, benefit financially from working here. And there's oodles of persons who are enjoying successful careers in operational management only because they're pieces of a puzzle in UPS's top-down centralized management system.



I think it's sickening that we live in a society in which companies like Walmart pay 10-year, FT employees less than $10/hour - and price benefit co-premiums so high, few bite - while meanwhile executive compensation soars so that the CEO of Home Depot walked away with $200M after "leading" his company to failure. But people are ignorant, and that doesn't change status quo -- that if you want hgh-quality exec talent, you're going to have to pay for it. At least at UPS most of us are enjoying in the company's financial success. If the BOD had hired a lower cost, passive CEO, we wouldn't be looking at nearly $4 in raises & continued no-cost benefits over the next five years.[/QUOTE]

You forgot to mention that retiree's will have costs for benefits, These benefits should be across the board for everyone.You retire with a package, only to find out that possibly what you were told to expect may change in the future

I got to pee !

 

[The Milkman]

Few private-sector employers offer health insurance to retirees. According to Towers Watson, the number has fallen to less than 15% today, down from 66% in 1988. And the companies that do offer such insurance typically mandate the retiree foot nearly the entire premium -- the average retiree under 65 pays nearly $10,000 for individual coverage and $20,000 for family (typically just him & his spouse at that point) coverage. And we're complaining about what amount again???

The grievances being aired -- that UPS is somehow screwing its employees with crappy compensation -- are faux and demonstrate just how out of touch with the realities of the job market status quo many BrownCafe members are.

I do understand today's job market. My beef is again, benefits promised and expected go out the window.Everyone someday will be affected in some shape or form. But planning your retirement and then retiring with a plan that you were expecting ....only to see your plan turn south and go down the tubes. Your vote today will dictate your future and all others who follow should be prepared for a retirement pkg that gets shot full of holes in order to keep paying the BOD their bloated salaries...I guess that's ok then?

 

[Lineandinitial]

Actually, active moderation went down quite a bit until Cheryl started the TROLL stuff.

Now we got goofballs reporting anyone they disagree with as trolls.

Dave was a bit hard on newbies but I did appreciate his logical and skeptical approach when looking at business, union and UPS issues.

He would be a leftist in a RTW state so I really thought he was a bit of a liberal.

But, as you say, I did enjoy his mental jousting with the sheep.

Did UPState make some kind of profound speech when he left? When I read the various threads about his "dpearture", the MacArthur farewell speech comes to mind:

General Douglas MacArthur Farewell Speech - YouTube

 

[Bagels]

I do understand today's job market. My beef is again, benefits promised and expected go out the window.Everyone someday will be affected in some shape or form. But planning your retirement and then retiring with a plan that you were expecting ....only to see your plan turn south and go down the tubes. Your vote today will dictate your future and all others who follow should be prepared for a retirement pkg that gets shot full of holes in order to keep paying the BOD their bloated salaries...I guess that's ok then?

UPS has never promised "free" (or near it) lifelong benefits to retirees. And retired UPSers will be one of the few workers to retain benefits, and perhaps at the most affordable cost. It's still a very generous, valuable perk. Nor is it not as if you weren't compensated handsomely, often with above-market wages & benefits, for the work you performed.

UPS is still a business and needs to look out for its best interests now & in the future. I also despise bloated executive pay, but until a strong movement in this country takes shape to increase general wages & benefits (real compensation for most Americans continues to decline, despite record productivity - UPS is an exception), it's not going to change and handicapping UPS will hurt - not help - our cause. Kinda like if the Chicago Cubs decided that the market for pitching had become too bloated, and thus they were only going to pay $5M/year for a #1 starter. Think it's going to work?

 

[Anonymous 10]

UPS has never promised "free" (or near it) lifelong benefits to retirees. And retired UPSers will be one of the few workers to retain benefits, and perhaps at the most affordable cost. It's still a very generous, valuable perk. Nor is it not as if you weren't compensated handsomely, often with above-market wages & benefits, for the work you performed.

UPS is still a business and needs to look out for its best interests now & in the future. I also despise bloated executive pay, but until a strong movement in this country takes shape to increase general wages & benefits (real compensation for most Americans continues to decline, despite record productivity - UPS is an exception), it's not going to change and handicapping UPS will hurt - not help - our cause. Kinda like if the Chicago Cubs decided that the market for pitching had become too bloated, and thus they were only going to pay $5M/year for a #1 starter. Think it's going to work?

The only thing that will ever change it will be and all out revolution.

 

[grgrcr88]

LOL! This is what we call a logical fallacy. Despite PTers reporting waits of more than 10 years to go into FT driving in most locations, you truly believe UPS "..can't get anyone to drive no matter what they pay them!" Same's true on the operational managerial side: Most PT supervisors have reported long waits to go into FT management (typically 'you're near the top of the list for a promotion ... there's just no jobs available.') Same's true on the professional side: There's literally a handful of jobs available systemwide, despite UPS being one of the world's largest companies. Contrast that with smaller, similar companies such as FedEx which has oodles of openings. If UPS were truly under-compensating its employee groups, there's simply no way this would be true. UPS may not be the place it was years ago. But UPS pays significantly more than its competition for similar jobs requisitioning similar skill sets sets.

Comments about the hostile work environment that UPS is coupled with low pay are just flat out silly. If you believe this to be true, then take yourself to a higher-paying employer that provides a better work culture (unfortunately, Camelot only exists in fiction). UPS may not be a fun place to work. But it compensates its employees (sans PTers in the early reigns of their careers) well and money talks.

And quite honestly, all the FT drivers earning in excess of $30/hour (plus full no-cost health & welfare benefits) who believe nobody could replicate their work performance and/or nobody else would work for the wage they earn really needs to get over themselves.

This is what we call a completely off topic response to defer attention away from the actual point that was made. No where did I say that I was under compensated nor did I complain about my pay or benefits package. In fact if you were to do a search of my posts on this forum I think you would find that I have not complained about my income or benefit levels ever.

The statement I made was that your obviously out of touch with the day to day operations at my UPS location. We cannot get anyone to drive in our building. They post an interest sheet and 1 person will sign up. The guy that started on the preload the week prior. If they agree to start them, they all quit after 1-2 days. Seasonals come in work for 2-5 days and never answer their phone again when UPS calls. They all are well aware of the compensation package and the benefit package yet they all walk away!!

Something must be wrong!!!