Upper management gets 20% raise, I get less than inflation with a target on my back!

[Yaba Daba Do]

Just discussing, I am not attacking please don't take this as such. I just feel strongly about this!

1. The RLA is between FedEx and the Govt. If UPS feels harmed by it then UPS needs to address it with those 2 entities. Can we both agree that taking it out on us (the employees) is morally wrong?

Ok, lets take this view and apply it to a different situation. North Korea jails its citizens for any reason at any time. The US does not! Your view applied would be that until North Korea changes the US is harmed by not being able to do the same! Yes, this is taken to the extreme and is absurd but its the SAME ARGUMENT! 2 wrongs do not make a right if you will. "Because they are then we can also," Has been an excuse to commit some of the world's worst atrocities throughout history. Does not make it right and is never an excuse!

"Make a lot more money like you are suggesting," I feel that just looking at the pure dollar amount in a vacuum is what UPS (the opposing side) wants everyone to focus on! This is a slight-of-hand, a con job if you will. The current inflation rate is over 2.75%. Best estimates has inflation for 2018 north of 2.9%. I personally think we are 1 more fed rate-hike from being well over 3%. The offered raises are less than that, A LOT LESS. We actually LOSE money with this offer in all reality! This isn't 100% about whats on paper, this is about real life in the real world!

2.I do not agree in any way with this statement! From what we are seeing day in and day out, UPS does not hesitate to put as many packages in the trucks and the driver gets done whenever they get done. The only thing that prevents them from doing this is the very weak 9.5 language in the contract. I point out the fact that new hires are paid less than FedEX drivers. Therefore if UPS was at the very least concerned with the labor "costs" we would routinely see the lowest paid drivers working the most hours. Reality is its almost the exact opposite! At best there appears to be 0 correlation between what a driver is currently being paid and how much work gets shoved down our throats!

1. I don't think the company is taking anything out on us, I think they are doing what they have to to stay competitive. My whole argument is about staying competitive. If the company is forced to raise prices to pay us $5 or $10/hr more and fedex doesn't have to raise their prices who are people going to ship with more? If UPS loses business are they just going to say, "that's okay we still made X." I'd argue no because the board is answerable to shareholders. They will be replaced if profits fall too much or for a prolonged period of time. If you think they don't put enough routes in now I wouldn't want to even think about how many more they would cut if their jobs were on the line not to mention the layoffs that would inevitably occur. With around 250,000 teamsters give or take if you gave them all just a $1/hr raise that's and extra $250,000 the company would have to pay per hour worked. I think we should absolutely keep up with inflation but i think it is unrealistic to expect much more than that. If you think that we should get a little more than $4.15, which is more than we got last contract, that might be a legitimate argument but to say that the $4.15 which puts us over $40/hr is an insult i don't think is accurate. If it is true that they did away with split raises and we get the whole raise August 1 every year then that is an improvement as well.

2. As for North Korea, I don't see how human rights violations are in any way comparable to negotiating an hourly way. We are not in any way in competition with North Korea as to who has the better or worse human rights. The United States is not in danger of going out of business because we treat our people better than they treat theirs. For the record I am all for stronger 9.5 language. The reason we don't routinely see the lowest paid drivers getting the most hours is because there is language in the contract that prevents that. Work can not be taken from a senior driver and given to a junior driver to prevent the senior driver from getting OT.

 

[silverbullet2893]

The problem is what the competition is being paid. No matter what you think of the company, and i am not defending them by any means, they have to remain competitive. UPS's labor costs are so much more that any of their competitors that it becomes harder and harder to stay competitive. They can't pay us $50/hr while fedex is making $25, that would not be a successful business model. Now there is absolutely an argument to be made that management doesn't deserve a 20% raise but if we want more money we need fedex and dhl to start making more money too.

What’s the best way to execute the donkey punch??

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

The problem is what the competition is being paid. No matter what you think of the company, and i am not defending them by any means, they have to remain competitive. UPS's labor costs are so much more that any of their competitors that it becomes harder and harder to stay competitive. They can't pay us $50/hr while fedex is making $25, that would not be a successful business model. Now there is absolutely an argument to be made that management doesn't deserve a 20% raise but if we want more money we need fedex and dhl to start making more money too.

How about getting us out of the building on time. How many 10's of millions would that save on late air refunds and missed package refunds?

 

[East coast navy]

The problem is what the competition is being paid. No matter what you think of the company, and i am not defending them by any means, they have to remain competitive. UPS's labor costs are so much more that any of their competitors that it becomes harder and harder to stay competitive. They can't pay us $50/hr while fedex is making $25, that would not be a successful business model. Now there is absolutely an argument to be made that management doesn't deserve a 20% raise but if we want more money we need fedex and dhl to start making more money too.

Your numbers are way off. Ups is still very competitive. They made 5% profits last year... Show me a company that does that in there field... Ups is the best accounting company in the world. They have been in business for over 100 years! Don’t let this company fool you. No one is say we want $50 hour. They gave 3.90 when the economy went to sheet for a decade... Now they want to give us .25 more then before when the economy is going on the uprise

Unless I see billons of dollars going into the pensions ( and I say Billions!!) There is nothing I this contract yet that will make me say yes. Because the company has been laughing at us for the past decade and a half!

 

[Benben]

If you think that we should get a little more than $4.15, which is more than we got last contract, that might be a legitimate argument but to say that the $4.15 which puts us over $40/hr is an insult i don't think is accurate.

I think we should absolutely keep up with inflation but i think it is unrealistic to expect much more than that.

I see those 2 statements as being contradictory. You can not have a raise that is less than inflation and in the same breath say it equals inflation! You say it is "unrealistic." I ask why? Record profits, record revenues, HUGE tax breaks!! 20% raises for upper management. Divvy increase in excess of 10%. I fail to understand why you would even begin to think it is "unrealistic." Again I am not trying to be aggressive so please don't read it that way!

The reason we don't routinely see the lowest paid drivers getting the most hours is because there is language in the contract that prevents that. Work can not be taken from a senior driver and given to a junior driver to prevent the senior driver from getting OT.

I understand what you are saying but we are dealing with real word dispatches. Every day, EVERY DAY! Split routes are put in and work is shuffled. This is done between midnight and when the pre-load arrives. Ok, that Is a falsehood I just told, we all know it happens ALL THE WAY UP TO AND BEYOND THE DRIVER'S START TIME!

Further, in my building it has become common practice to send a Jr. driver after a a senior driver's work that is currently on the truck an hour before the 9.5 mark for the soul STATED purpose of keeping the senior driver under 9.5 because. The next day the senior driver will be sent out with over 9.5 and without doing so would be his 3rd occurrence of the week!

Lastly, I have read the contract numerous times. Where does it prevent the lowest paid drivers getting the most hours?

 

[dudebro]

With this economy that has been doing nothing but go up for 9 years there would be something wrong if they didn't make record profits and revenues year after year. The problem comes when the next recession hits. So called experts have been calling for it for years and eventually one of them will be able to act like they predicted it and say they told you so. When everything is going good it's easy to say i want more more more but it's not until there is a down turn that the issues arise. Businesses are all about the bottom line. We want UPS to be the "biggest and best in the industry" to continue to be compensated the way that we are. We should get raises that keep up with inflation but we will not get more until the competition raises their wages.
While I do think there may be reasons to strike they are not economic but more so about working conditions.

Driver wages have gone up in line with the economy. GDP is growing 2% and change per year (which is what you call "booming"), so are the wage rates. So in a sense, UPS is also paying "record wages!".

The UPS domestic package operation is NOT making record profits year after year, they've been level from 2015-2017 while revenue is up over 10%. The "record" profits are coming increasingly from non-US and freight operations. That actually means profit per dollar of revenue in US small package is going DOWN over the past 3 years, not up.

The driver workload has been increasing as result of an effort to remain profitable while affording the benefits and pension we all agree our drivers deserve, not because there's some Monty Burns character tapping his fingertips while lightning strikes outside.

 

[Yaba Daba Do]

What’s the best way to execute the donkey punch??

Quickly and with the element of surprise

 

[Yaba Daba Do]

How about getting us out of the building on time. How many 10's of millions would that save on late air refunds and missed package refunds?

I agree 100%. Service has taken a nosedive in the last decade because of the decisions of incompetent management that have never done the job.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

I agree 100%. Service has taken a nosedive in the last decade because of the decisions of incompetent management that have never done the job.

And we have lost a lot of business over that.

 

[Yaba Daba Do]

Your numbers are way off. Ups is still very competitive. They made 5% profits last year... Show me a company that does that in there field... Ups is the best accounting company in the world. They have been in business for over 100 years! Don’t let this company fool you. No one is say we want $50 hour. They gave 3.90 when the economy went to sheet for a decade... Now they want to give us .25 more then before when the economy is going on the uprise

Unless I see billons of dollars going into the pensions ( and I say Billions!!) There is nothing I this contract yet that will make me say yes. Because the company has been laughing at us for the past decade and a half!

Fedex is right there with us and gaining, 63.5% gross profit, 8.35% operating profit, and 4.97% net profit. As I've said UPS is the big dick in town now but if our compensation package gets out of control we won't be going forward. I'm not saying we shouldn't get raises, we obviously should, I'm saying it can't continue to far outpace the competition or the company will not be able to compete and once that happens people will still be screaming more, more, more and want to go on strike. I'm curious as to what people who disagree think we should get as a raise?

 

[Yaba Daba Do]

And we have lost a lot of business over that.

You're not getting any arguments from me. I think providing better service by doing things better than the competition is what got UPS to where it is and in the last decade that no longer exists. They used to tell we are the most expensive in the business and we provide the best service in the business which is why people use us. This is no longer true due to management generally having no clue what they are doing.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

You're not getting any arguments from me. I think providing better service by doing things better than the competition is what got UPS to where it is and in the last decade that no longer exists. They used to tell we are the most expensive in the business and we provide the best service in the business which is why people use us. This is no longer true due to management generally having no clue what they are doing.

We are the most expensive and do the least.

 

[Yaba Daba Do]

I see those 2 statements as being contradictory. You can not have a raise that is less than inflation and in the same breath say it equals inflation! You say it is "unrealistic." I ask why? Record profits, record revenues, HUGE tax breaks!! 20% raises for upper management. Divvy increase in excess of 10%. I fail to understand why you would even begin to think it is "unrealistic." Again I am not trying to be aggressive so please don't read it that way!

I don't think you are trying to be aggressive and that is not my intent either. I think it is a good conversation. I don't see us changing each others minds but it is productive to see where each other are coming from.

I'm saying we are right around inflation. If you think we should fight and go on strike for another .5% I at least understand where you are coming from but the way I read it not only from you but from many others on here is that you think the $4.15 is an insult and I don't see it that way. I'm curious as to how much you think we should get?

 

[Yaba Daba Do]

The UPS domestic package operation is NOT making record profits year after year, they've been level from 2015-2017 while revenue is up over 10%. The "record" profits are coming increasingly from non-US and freight operations. That actually means profit per dollar of revenue in US small package is going DOWN over the past 3 years, not up.

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me about the wages. This is what i'm saying, profits are coming increasingly from non-US and freight operations in large part because of our total compensation in the US.

 

[Yaba Daba Do]

Further, in my building it has become common practice to send a Jr. driver after a a senior driver's work that is currently on the truck an hour before the 9.5 mark for the soul STATED purpose of keeping the senior driver under 9.5 because. The next day the senior driver will be sent out with over 9.5 and without doing so would be his 3rd occurrence of the week!

If the senior driver is on the 9.5 list then he is saying he doesn't want to work more than 9.5 hours and they are accommodating him. I don't see the problem with sending a senior driver help that has already said he does not want the OT. If the senior driver was not on the 9.5 list and wanted the OT and the junior driver already had his 8 in and was on OT as well then the senior driver could file.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

If the senior driver is on the 9.5 list then he is saying he doesn't want to work more than 9.5 hours and they are accommodating him. I don't see the problem with sending a senior driver help that has already said he does not want the OT. If the senior driver was not on the 9.5 list and wanted the OT and the junior driver already had his 8 in and was on OT as well then the senior driver could file.

You know they will abuse this

 

[Yaba Daba Do]

You know they will abuse this

If they did then the driver could file. I'm sure he'd rather get paid for the junior drivers work without actually having to do it anyway.

 

[wide load]

Where did you get your info?

He meant Abney

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

If they did then the driver could file. I'm sure he'd rather get paid for the junior drivers work without actually having to do it anyway.

Like I said they will abuse this. You should know this. Violate the contract and maybe pay out on some grievances, if they get filed.

 

[1989]

He meant Abney

Oh I thought he meant management. Like ALL management like he implied.