Ups my choice

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
Show me the "Work as directed" part of the contract first. There is NO agreement that forces me to do anything on a whim of a supervisor.

Peace.

"Whim of a supervisor"??? It will be another service we provide, just like Next Day Air by 10:30.

Or are you saying you don't have to deliver your Next Days by 10:30 either?
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
We have a mostly rural delivery area and the largest delivery area in NYS. There are loggers in God's country who would use this, as well as farmers and the wind farms. This is going to be a mess for my center. Summer people on the lake and river who would request their deck chair cushions from Lands End ASAP because they want them before their party starts. Kookoo's in no mans land who want their sleep number at exactly 10:05, because their brother-in-law is in a hurry and can only help set it up before his golf game. I haven't even mentioned the army people. Have to get scanned entering Drum to deliver Honey's flowers at 11:35 because Honey's hubby wants to call when they are delivered.
Then, you have to go back off post to deliver the rest of your businesses. Oh, wait. It's 12:30 and more Honey flowers(you would be amazed at the flower deliveries out there). So, back thru the scanner, then back out for more businesses. What a mess.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
"Whim of a supervisor"??? It will be another service we provide, just like Next Day Air by 10:30.

Or are you saying you don't have to deliver your Next Days by 10:30 either?

Are you clueless? "like next day air?" You mean, your going to get a list in the am before you leave telling you which stops have a "scheduled" delivery and you must comply with it?

Look at the typical package driver schedule:

Depart hub 915am and head out to complete next day air by 1030am, do you think during this time we will be able to make "scheduled" ground deliveries? Where will those packages be loaded? Will there be a new section on shelf 1 for ALL "scheduled" deliveries? OR will they be shoved under everything else like they are everyday?

Then, in the AM after NDA, most cars have business to complete before the 12 to 1PM window, will we have to break off our business with 12 pm commits and such to run to a residential address to deliver a ground packgage? Next, assuming everyone takes lunch at 1pm to 2pm, what if a customer wants the delivery during that hour? Do we delay lunch and then violate the mileage limitation from driving less than 1/4 mile after the last stop?

Most cars have pickups that start at 4pm (some at 330pm) and run untl 530Pm, then to the relay to drop NDA. Are we to break off of pickups and violate the "15 minute window" to run back to a residential stop and make 1 ground delivery because it was on the list in the AM?

What if a customer wants a delivery between 4pm and 6pm? Do I miss the relay and service fail all my air?

What about the small time frame between the business and pickups? Should I spend that time running around from section to section delivering one stop until those are complete, then go back to the begining of my residential and start delivering some 45 mins late?

Free time is something we DONT HAVE. Flexibility is another thing we DONT HAVE. A single delay (scheduled delivery) could cause a 30 minute delay in the day pushing us later into the evening and into overtime, not to mention having to hold more packages on the shelfs during the pickups wasting a ton of space and possibly forcing us to call in for help with pickups because we dont have the cube space to place the pickups on.

In UPSTOPIA, this new service will have a minimal impact on the delivery day, but we still havent gotten to the "how will these deliveries be scheduled".

If we dont get a list in the AM, then we have to depend on a supervisor or OMS sending a message via ODS instructing us to break off and go make a scheduled delivery. Either way, there is no window to accomodate this service unless drastic levels of work are removed from our delivery day.

Residential customers work like we do, so you can imagine that some will want a delivery before 10am and some will want a delivery between 5 and 6. If customers will be home between 12 and 4, why bother using the service in the first place? I dont know of ANY customer who will make a scheduled delivery for 8PM. What about those trucks that get done at 6pm and usually head in?

Do they stay on the road since they have a couple of stops wanting a 7 to 730pm delivery or do they have to run down another driver and transfer those packages?

There are so many intangibiles with this service it isnt even funny.

Try thinking this one out completely 9five.

Peace.
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
You need to do some thinking as well. Who cares about intangibles? I was responding to your position that you do not have to break for time commit packages. You most certainly do. Let the chips fall where they may, do what the boss says and the responsibility is no longer yours.

As always, thank you for the insults included in your reply.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
My last route, I had 36 pick-ups starting at 3:12 and ending at 6pm, my least favorite was NY Air Brake. Some of those packages weighed more than me!!!
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
You need to do some thinking as well. Who cares about intangibles? I was responding to your position that you do not have to break for time commit packages. You most certainly do. Let the chips fall where they may, do what the boss says and the responsibility is no longer yours.

As always, thank you for the insults included in your reply.

There are many times a supervisor tries to give me an instruction to break route for something and I reject the suggestion. Just because they say it doesnt make it right. If I have commits for business, NO RESIDENTIAL commit will overide that.

Peace.
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
Actually, I changed my mind. You are WAY over-thinking all this.

You are trying to be some super driver fixing all those dumb sups mistakes. The only REAL way to fix this is to follow your sups instructions. Let them fail. It's all on them, you are just a truck driver Working As Directed.

It makes life a Helluva lot simpler, TOS.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Actually, I changed my mind. You are WAY over-thinking all this.

You are trying to be some super driver fixing all those dumb sups mistakes. The only REAL way to fix this is to follow your sups instructions. Let them fail. It's all on them, you are just a truck driver Working As Directed.

It makes life a Helluva lot simpler, TOS.

So am I to understand you cant respond to the "highlights" of potential difficulties I posted? You havent explained how they will be dispatched, where will they be loaded, are we to disregard other priorities on route to make service on these products or are we to fail pickups when a customer selects a 5pm to 6pm delivery time?

We dont work in a Utopia and especially not a UPSTOPIA. You stated that you were not concerned with "intangibles" on route and that sez it all (you dont understand the business)

We have small "windows of opportunities" for many services that UPS already has. Which one of these windows will we have to compromise to make a "scheduled" residential delivery?

Shall it be the next day air window? Should it be the business before noon window? Should it be our lunch/break window? Shall it be our pickup window? Should it be our transfer/relay NDA window?

With all the commits we currently have, placing another commit on us is impossible. NDA 1030 or 12noon, NDA savers 3PM, 2nd day 12pm commits, schools before 3pm(i have 3 of those) and pickups from 4 to 530pm.

Which would I fail if I am instructed to deliver during one of these windows of opportunity?

Life is simple, UPS is complicated. Its trying too hard to offer services it cant possibly deliver on. This program would have some promise if it was limited to business customers only, for instance, on the friday before a 3 day weekend, they could change their deliveries to reflect a closure on the friday saving time and a stop. But for a residential delivery, we just dont have the "Window of opportunity" to make a legit service out of this.

Time delays will cause the business day to be compromised. Even ONE stop will cause a delay of 1/2 hour in total time. Drive to, stop, wait and package and drive back to area you left. That will be a half hour by itself.

A better use of time, effort and energy would be to notify the customer that their replacement item is at the UPS store, they can bring in the old item and exchange and box it there and the driver can pick it in the evening. The driver will deliver the replacement item and box to the store in the am.

Sending us to a home, where we will ultimately have to wait, argue and pizz off a customer makes no sense.

Explain to me how you believe UPS can fit this service into our business day and NOT impact service elsewhere.

Peace
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
Blah blah blah.......

Explain to me how you believe UPS can fit this service into our business day and NOT impact service elsewhere.

Peace

Please re-read my post. I said TOS Super Driver should do what the boss says and let the chips fall where they may. The ONLY way this will get fixed is if you do what the boss says, and allow him to fail.

I never said the above line in your quote. You made that up like you do most of your crap.
 
Show me the "Work as directed" part of the contract first. There is NO agreement that forces me to do anything on a whim of a supervisor.

Peace.

You are allowed to refuse to work as directed for 1)safety 2)legality 3)morality. This new plan, as corn brained as it may seem, does not fall under any of those three. You may think you have a big pair but I guarantee if management was sufficiently motivated, and if you talk to them like you say you do here (doubt it), they will walk you for it.
Whim of a sup? This is going to be a new COMPANY policy. The same company that you will be putting on your resume down at job services.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Please re-read my post. I said TOS Super Driver should do what the boss says and let the chips fall where they may. The ONLY way this will get fixed is if you do what the boss says, and allow him to fail.

I never said the above line in your quote. You made that up like you do most of your crap.

I see youre still unable to address what I said, and im cool with you running away from the issue. I made some clear points and you can only come back with nonsense as usual. Thats your problem with debates.

Peace.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
See how well UPS promotes this new service and if it's available when ordering after Oct 24th....
Then it might be more tricks then treats on Holloween, when everyone wants their costume somewhere between 12 and 4pm, and no later then that !
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
You are allowed to refuse to work as directed for 1)safety 2)legality 3)morality. This new plan, as corn brained as it may seem, does not fall under any of those three. You may think you have a big pair but I guarantee if management was sufficiently motivated, and if you talk to them like you say you do here (doubt it), they will walk you for it.
Whim of a sup? This is going to be a new COMPANY policy. The same company that you will be putting on your resume down at job services.

Ok, lets see, 9five cant manage to address some simple questions when asked, and lets see if you can try your hand at it.

To make my points in a nutshell and make it easier for you, let me ask some questions and you can either agree or disagree

We have a small window of opportunity throughout our delivery day, agree( ) or disagree ( )

We have commits now (NDA, NDA business savers, 2nd day air) that have priority over everything else in the truck that is a ground package. agree ( ) disagree ( )

We cannot leave our pickup string in order to make a ground delivery in another area. Agree ( ) disagree ( )

Now, those are some simple questions, but the reality is this. When it comes to residential deliveries, people work, and people get home around 4 to 530pm, if they use this service to schedule a delivery, what window of time do you think is going to be selected?? 7PM 8PM 9PM?? OR does it make sense that times between 4pm and 6pm will be selected more than other times?

Of all our routes, 4 to 6pm is pickup times and this makes this selection unreasonable and likely to upset a customer who choses this time period.

So what time period is left? Before 1030? How is this possible? Would UPS be willing to give a customer "next day air " service on a ground package? Why would a customer chose next day air when all they have to do is select Before 1030am on my choice?

What about delivering one of these packages after 1030am to 1pm? Should we break off of business and possibly fail business commits for a ground residential package? What about the delay in making one of these deliveries?

We are so tight on times, there just is no "window of opportunity" to break route and make service on a scheduled package without compromising the day.

This service will make a "false" promise to a customer and when we dont show up at 430pm they requested it, and its 730pm when we do show up, an argument will ensue. Even today, the OMS will send a message via ODS to the driver to go to a certain address that was NI1 earlier in the day and reattempt. We blow it off and do it as the last stop of the day sometime around 845pm.

Thats the extent of what will happen to this service, a bunch of empty promises on a web site.

Peace.
 
The distance between my business area and my residential area is 5 miles. If im in my business area , I can assure you that I WILL NOT BREAK off and head up the hill for a ground package during that time.

Some OMS will try to make me leave my pickups and go make a delivery miles away? I dont think so.

Not in this lifetime. Heres the message "can you deliver 25011 elm st at 330PM, cust made an appointment with my choice UPS"... My response is "I wont be in that area till 830PM tonight, advise cust to leave porch light on"

Peace.

Ok, lets see, 9five cant manage to address some simple questions when asked, and lets see if you can try your hand at it.
Ok, here we go.


To make my points in a nutshell and make it easier for you, let me ask some questions and you can either agree or disagree

We have a small window of opportunity throughout our delivery day, agree( ) or disagree ( )
Don`t care.

We have commits now (NDA, NDA business savers, 2nd day air) that have priority over everything else in the truck that is a ground package. agree ( ) disagree ( )
Don`t care.
We cannot leave our pickup string in order to make a ground delivery in another area. Agree ( ) disagree ( )
Don`t care.

Now, those are some simple questions, but the reality is this. When it comes to residential deliveries, people work, and people get home around 4 to 530pm, if they use this service to schedule a delivery, what window of time do you think is going to be selected?? 7PM 8PM 9PM?? OR does it make sense that times between 4pm and 6pm will be selected more than other times?

Of all our routes, 4 to 6pm is pickup times and this makes this selection unreasonable and likely to upset a customer who choses this time period.

So what time period is left? Before 1030? How is this possible? Would UPS be willing to give a customer "next day air " service on a ground package? Why would a customer chose next day air when all they have to do is select Before 1030am on my choice?

What about delivering one of these packages after 1030am to 1pm? Should we break off of business and possibly fail business commits for a ground residential package? What about the delay in making one of these deliveries?

We are so tight on times, there just is no "window of opportunity" to break route and make service on a scheduled package without compromising the day.

This service will make a "false" promise to a customer and when we dont show up at 430pm they requested it, and its 730pm when we do show up, an argument will ensue. Even today, the OMS will send a message via ODS to the driver to go to a certain address that was NI1 earlier in the day and reattempt. We blow it off and do it as the last stop of the day sometime around 845pm.

Thats the extent of what will happen to this service, a bunch of empty promises on a web site.

Peace.

If you would take a min to read my post you will see I never discussed how well this new idea will work. It looks like a complete cluster friend waiting to happen. What I said is that when management implements this new company policy and tells you to do something you will comply.

Since you like to put it simple for others let me put it simple for you. When the organ grinder tell the monkey to dance, the monkey dances. And you will dance. Oh yes, you will dance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44Y-_JAjAwE
 
C

chuchu

Guest
Actually, I changed my mind. You are WAY over-thinking all this.

You are trying to be some super driver fixing all those dumb sups mistakes. The only REAL way to fix this is to follow your sups instructions. Let them fail. It's all on them, you are just a truck driver Working As Directed.

It makes life a Helluva lot simpler, TOS.
I am going to get a lot of pictures with my phone of these ODS messages if they start messing with pickup compliance and precipitating missed businesses. They (sups) have alot of time to document stupid and ignorant ideas about my job and what it takes to get it done in a safe and quality fashion. Can't wait to add the service where we become the roving UPS Store too. I love standing at a customers door at 6 PM waiting to wrap up a dress that was the wrong color (to return it) and smelling fried chicken, knowing I won't be home to eat for a couple of more hours.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
We are so tight on times, there just is no "window of opportunity" to break route and make service on a scheduled package without compromising the day.

Peace.
"It is not our job to manage.". This is a quote from the Labor Sup in my area. Fine. Be that way. If the whole day implodes and we miss pick-ups and service times, so be it. They have taken away any of that responsibility from us. My old route had 36 pick-ups in a 2 hour timeframe(there about), starting at 3:12pm. A cover driver did the route one day I called in. At 4:30, the center manager called him to see why he hadn't started the pick-ups yet. He replied that he still had stops on his truck, and that he would start the pick-ups after he was done delivering. (heavy add/cut day). He got to the last pick-up on time. Boy, oh boy, were there some p.o.ed customers. I heard about it for about a week from them. The cover driver never got written up. The world didn't end. UPS covered it up, just like they will when this new system blows up in their faces.
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
If you would take a min to read my post you will see I never discussed how well this new idea will work. It looks like a complete cluster friend waiting to happen. What I said is that when management implements this new company policy and tells you to do something you will comply.

Since you like to put it simple for others let me put it simple for you. When the organ grinder tell the monkey to dance, the monkey dances. And you will dance. Oh yes, you will dance.

Hmm, that's exactly what I said. Then TOS (unable to give a clear answer) resorts AS ALWAYS to making up things that other people say.
Go back, TOS. Re-read. THINK.
 
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