Voting bonus out!

[box_beeyotch]

Ask your supervisor or the driver currently on that route. Management isn't required to list those things on bids but it's no secret. But the fact that that particular items aren't a secret doesn't mean the current driver's daily stats should be available every day for the whole center to see. Remember.... Those operational reports include everyones paid day.

The fact is too you could bid a route and they could change it all around because now your on it and you work much faster than the last guy. Precisely why it doesn't pay to run your ass off and be under everyday.

 

[Bubblehead]

I skimmed through some of the posts here. What I will say is that personally, there have been times I've run an hour under (maybe a little more at times) and I've also run an hour over (or more at times). The amount that I would run over or under seemingly had no effect on the workload. They'll always try to pack it in the trucks regardless. Whatever they have to do to get their magic stops per car metric. The fact that I may have run 100 clicks over or under is irrelevant.

It's most certainly not irrelevant...in the end.

Do the math...UPS does.

Consistency is the key.



-guB-

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I guess I am not as worried about what others think about my paid day as you are. Why would that need to be a secret?

Its none of the other driver's business what I make. Plus, the ability to peruse everyone's reports at will breeds jealousy in bonus centers.

 

[Re-Raise]

Its none of the other driver's business what I make. Plus, the ability to peruse everyone's reports at will breeds jealousy in bonus centers.

I guess I'll walk to work tomorrow so none of the drivers see my new pickup truck and get jealous. I don't give a damn about the individual driver's times.. I am curious about the route's times

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I guess I'll walk to work tomorrow so none of the drivers see my new pickup truck and get jealous. I don't give a damn about the individual driver's times.. I am curious about the route's times

Why would you care about the times? You get paid by the hour and to follow the methods. Doing that eventually forces them to take work off the car or risk paying out penalty pay grievances and having to explain to the empty suits why their centers numbers are so bad.

 

[Bubblehead]

Why would you care about the times? You get paid by the hour and to follow the methods. Doing that eventually forces them to take work off the car or risk paying out penalty pay grievances and having to explain to the empty suits why their centers numbers are so bad.

Because, in a bonus center, we realize that while we are all indeed being paid by the hour, just not at the same rate per hour?

If it's not about the bonus, it could very well be about the extra work.

Following the daily report provides transparency and a playing field leveled by seniority, as the collective bargaining agreement provides.

 

[Re-Raise]

Why would you care about the times? You get paid by the hour and to follow the methods. Doing that eventually forces them to take work off the car or risk paying out penalty pay grievances and having to explain to the empty suits why their centers numbers are so bad.

You seem very sensitive about your over/under performance and seem to think other drivers are judging you or something.

Just like I don't really care what management thinks of my over/under I couldn't care less what the other drivers think of it.

I do care how the routes plan out based on packages, miles and stops so I can make an educated decision on what to bid on.

Can I look in their trucks as I walk by in the morning or will that cause too much jealousy? What if I see a driver's car in the parking lot when I leave after work?? Does that mean he is making more money than me??

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Because, in a bonus center, we realize that while we are all indeed being paid by the hour, just not at the same rate per hour?

If it's not about the bonus, it could very well be about the extra work.

Following the daily report provides transparency and a playing field leveled by seniority, as the collective bargaining agreement provides.

Here it's jealousy that drives bonus babies to investigate what other's are doing. There is no question about that. If you could see how these guys behave you'd be shocked. Not allowing them access to others' reports would help quell that. If you are implying access to a report could be needed to settle an extra work/seniority violation then I agree but that doesn't mean the reports need to be posted daily for public viewing. Many of the old timers in my center say that bonus was the worst thing that ever happened to our center and that the drivers didn't feel the need to have access to everyone else's stats prior to bonus being voted in.

You seem very sensitive about your over/under performance and seem to think other drivers are judging you or something.

I don't care and there is nothing in anything I've posted to indicate otherwise.

Just like I don't really care what management thinks of my over/under I couldn't care less what the other drivers think of it.

I do care how the routes plan out based on packages, miles and stops so I can make an educated decision on what to bid on.

Ask someone. Or just bid it and make it your own. If you truly don't care about the numbers then you'll work at a safe pace and eventually the route will plan. If not...that's management's problem. Plus, it may plan differently based on the habits of the current driver. Many of which can't be seen by looking at their report. Maybe they skip their lunch? Maybe they run? Or maybe they speed and don't take apartment deliveries to the office? Here many drivers lie and say they aren't doing these things but the rest of us know otherwise.

Can I look in their trucks as I walk by in the morning or will that cause too much jealousy? What if I see a driver's car in the parking lot when I leave after work?? Does that mean he is making more money than me??

Why would looking in their trucks cause jealousy? And the car is irrelevant. A nice/expensive car doesn't mean a thing. Anyone can take out a loan. And that driver's wife might make good money too and that's how they afford the car. I think you are overthinking this man. LOL! If you want to look at the reports then go right ahead if that's your center's thing. My opinion is that if we all stopped worrying about how other people are "performing" on their routes and just did our own thing things would work out better for everyone.

 

[Bubblehead]

In the end, I have come to these conclusions:

1. Somebody will always be first and somebody will always be last, and there are many variables that will determine who is which.

2. We need not help the company determine who is which in the hourly ranks.

I have and will continue to be critical of our union, but it is undeniable that the single greatest words ever printed in a UPS contract is "a fair days work, for a fair days pay".
These words are brilliant and must be protected at all cost and bonus be damned.

 

[Bubblehead]

Here it's jealousy that drives bonus babies to investigate what other's are doing. There is no question about that. If you could see how these guys behave you'd be shocked. Not allowing them access to others' reports would help quell that. If you are implying access to a report could be needed to settle an extra work/seniority violation then I agree but that doesn't mean the reports need to be posted daily for public viewing. Many of the old timers in my center say that bonus was the worst thing that ever happened to our center and that the drivers didn't feel the need to have access to everyone else's stats prior to bonus being voted in.

Be that as it may, but the intent of the report being posted is so we can confirm our paid day.
Ultimately, especially in a bonus center, it's a good thing to have "collective transparency".
After all, we should have nothing to hide from our brothers and should bid, or grieve, accordingly.

 

[Re-Raise]

In the end, I have come to these conclusions:

1. Somebody will always be first and somebody will always be last, and there are many variables that will determine who is which.

2. We need not help the company determine who is which in the hourly ranks.

I have and will continue to be critical of our union, but it is undeniable that the single greatest words ever printed in a UPS contract is "a fair days work, for a fair days pay".
These words are brilliant and must be protected and bonus be damned.

Agreed. I have worked in a bonus center for 30 yrs. I used to think I was efficient because I could organize the load well,had a good memory of what stops I had and used area knowledge to run the route.

NONE of those attributes matter anymore in running bonus. EDD and ORION make all of those things irrelevant. The only way to run bonus now is to speed, skip your breaks and have as little interaction with customers as possible.

They hide our Operations Report now because people had the same concerns as Overpaid Thug, I guess.

That is fine .. I just never really understood the need to keep everything a secret, unless management was trying to hide something.

 

[Re-Raise]

Why would looking in their trucks cause jealousy? And the car is irrelevant. A nice/expensive car doesn't mean a thing. Anyone can take out a loan. And that driver's wife might make good money too and that's how they afford the car. I think you are overthinking this man. LOL!

Just to be clear. I meant looking in the back of their package car and getting an idea of how many packages their route goes out with in the morning.

And my comment about noticing that their car was in the parking lot when I left, meant that they were getting more overtime than me, not that their car was nice.

I was using those examples as extensions of your desire to keep your paid day a secret from the other drivers.

 

[Coldworld]

My premise is very much intact as these "times", also known as allowances, are controlled solely by the company, who can and will change them at will and as they see fit.

If you indeed work in a package car center, you have certainly seen this dynamic play out during the inception of the roll outs of various technologies, coupled with the new phenomenon termed as "virtual time studies"?

In the end, nobody is getting "more money for nothing".
In reality they are cheating themselves, those below them on the full time seniority list and the unborn part timers waiting for their number to be called.

Bonus is the scourge of our collective bargaining agreement and only serves to further the divide that is being cultivated and nurtured by the company amongst the union ranks.

Could the union address throwing out bonus in the next contract or would that be something they just don't care about...

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Could the union address throwing out bonus in the next contract or would that be something they just don't care about...

Wouldn't bonus have to actually be in the contract before it could be thrown out?

 

[Bubblehead]

Wouldn't bonus have to actually be in the contract before it could be thrown out?

It's in our supplement in the Central Region, but it's termed as an incentive plan.

 

[upschuck]

My premise is very much intact as these "times", also known as allowances, are controlled solely by the company, who can and will change them at will and as they see fit.

I guess we'll disagree that times go with people, and not on routes.

If you indeed work in a package car center, you have certainly seen this dynamic play out during the inception of the roll outs of various technologies, coupled with the new phenomenon termed as "virtual time studies"?

Yes, I have seen times get cut, but they get cut for everybody. Drivers still always get back at the same time, with the same work. They want to get home.

In the end, nobody is getting "more money for nothing".
In reality they are cheating themselves, those below them on the full time seniority list and the unborn part timers waiting for their number to be called.

Doing x amount of work, and getting y amount of money, or x amount of work, and getting y+$30 is what I call money for nothing (extra). If you think they would hire more people as drivers, you are fooling yourself. For one, people are not going to get in at 7, when they normally get in at 6:15, they will still get in at 6:15, and just make less money.

Bonus is the scourge of our collective bargaining agreement and only serves to further the divide that is being cultivated and nurtured by the company amongst the union ranks.

Should it be changed, yes, I suppose, but it is better than not having it at all.

 

[Bubblehead]

I guess we'll disagree that times go with people, and not on routes.

We will, as the allowances are most certainly assigned to the specific route and are raised and lowered at the company's discretion.

Yes, I have seen times get cut, but they get cut for everybody. Drivers still always get back at the same time, with the same work. They want to get home.

Allowances are cut and stop counts increased with these technological "enhancements", only the fools get back at the same time.

Doing x amount of work, and getting y amount of money, or x amount of work, and getting y+$30 is what I call money for nothing (extra). If you think they would hire more people as drivers, you are fooling yourself. For one, people are not going to get in at 7, when they normally get in at 6:15, they will still get in at 6:15, and just make less money.

That's also fools math for those with a salary mentality.
We are hourly employees and until you embrace this mentality and clear your schedule, the company will play you from Monday to Friday.

Should it be changed, yes, I suppose, but it is better than not having it at all.

Overtime is my bonus and with the 9.5 language, I can keep it at a manageable level.
I am doing the same amounts of stops as I did before the inceptions of PAS/ORION and I routinely don't dispatch by the company's numbers, while working right up to 9.5 daily.
Their numbers change, but they don't change me.

Bonus is poisonous to our union.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Dispatches and allowances are most certainly based on the driver.

 

[Notretiredyet]

Bonus should be capped at 2hrs max, any more than that IMO rewards employees for cheating period. We have drivers doing a 12hr dispatch in 7.5hrs running over 4.5 hrs incentive here. Yeah they're following the methods and making good DR's. One was observed driving down the wrong side of the road del to mailboxes, no discipline. What kind of message does that send to the rest of the runners?

 

[Bubblehead]

Dispatches and allowances are most certainly based on the driver.

So when you're on vacation, you believe a whole different set of allowances come to your route with your replacement?