You should be ashamed of yourself!!

[Coldworld]

I'm not an employee of UPS, I am not a Teamster member ... I knew the ballot had to be in on the 20th.
Can't fix stupid!

​Dont you get a small check from the teamsters?

 

[Bagels]

I think TOS and Hoffa Sux turned many people off and many didn't vote because of their bullying.

Actually it was both sides ... from what I have observed at UPS and on Brown Cafe, there is no discussion, just in-your-face demands to vote someone's way.

I agree to some extent.

But I made it my goal to remind every single PTer within my sort that we're voting on a contract proposing significant changes and that we needed to vote to ensure we had a say (I was also offered to take names for the many who did not receive a ballot). I will iterate that I did NOT campaign or suggest a 'no' vote. Despite the persona I sometimes play in the anonymity of online, I tend to be discreet about my view points in person. Anyway, most people seemed annoyed or did not care; some people complained 'why bother ... the union does not care about us' and one person even complained to management that I was harassing her.

But I'll tell you the "typical" response: they'll blow off all the literature they've received (from the union through the mail-including their ballot, and from the TDU reps that have staked out our building), they'll blow off discussion of the contract and they'll blow off reminders to vote. Instead, they'll focus on things most important to them... you know, like the MLB All-Star game ballot that somehow impacts their life. Anyway, come January they'll be shocked -- absolutely SHOCKED -- that our health care has changed and now has a deductible, increased costs, and requires possible changes in providers... and they'll then $!## and moan that nobody tells them and that the union once again screwed them over.

 

[island1fox]

I agree to some extent.

But I made it my goal to remind every single PTer within my sort that we're voting on a contract proposing significant changes and that we needed to vote to ensure we had a say (I was also offered to take names for the many who did not receive a ballot). I will iterate that I did NOT campaign or suggest a 'no' vote. Despite the persona I sometimes play in the anonymity of online, I tend to be discreet about my view points in person. Anyway, most people seemed annoyed or did not care; some people complained 'why bother ... the union does not care about us' and one person even complained to management that I was harassing her.

But I'll tell you the "typical" response: they'll blow off all the literature they've received (from the union through the mail-including their ballot, and from the TDU reps that have staked out our building), they'll blow off discussion of the contract and they'll blow off reminders to vote. Instead, they'll focus on things most important to them... you know, like the MLB All-Star game ballot that somehow impacts their life. Anyway, come January they'll be shocked -- absolutely SHOCKED -- that our health care has changed and now has a deductible, increased costs, and requires possible changes in providers... and they'll then $!## and moan that nobody tells them and that the union once again screwed them over.

Bagel,

You describe the low informed voter --dancing with the stars -American Idol crowd ---who gave us Obamacare !! Why do yopu think between the Union and the Company there were so many Healthcare changes ??? The unions fault --NO --Companies fault --NO ---Obamacare has arrived --time for all low informed voters to pay more get less so that the lazy and non-working can get more for "FREE" Opps not free --it comes from YOU !!

 

[Bagels]

Bagel,

You describe the low informed voter --dancing with the stars -American Idol crowd ---who gave us Obamacare !! Why do yopu think between the Union and the Company there were so many Healthcare changes ??? The unions fault --NO --Companies fault --NO ---Obamacare has arrived --time for all low informed voters to pay more get less so that the lazy and non-working can get more for "FREE" Opps not free --it comes from YOU !!

Please don't toss politics into this. Even if the Republicans had continued to dominate Washington, UPS would've attacked health care. UPS has long sought to control the costs of union health care. In the last contract, Hall gave the company some serious concessions -- including the prized withdrawal from Central States Pension Fund. He had no more bargaining chips. This wasn't about ObamaCare. It was about UPS getting its feet wet in preparing union employees to ultimately contribute toward their health care. Next contract, UPS will be aggressive in seeking a longer FT progression, or even elimination of health care (possibly in favor of tuition reimbusement) to new PTers. Count on it.

And as far as uninformed voters... I'm just as informed, if not more informed, than you or anybody else. I'm pleased with my voting record -- sans Bush in 2000 (oh, to be young and stupid and listen to your parents). You may not agree with who I vote for, and I may not agree with who you vote for, but we should respect each other's opinions, rather than attacking them and insisting that one is better than the other (to you it may be, to be it may be different).

 

[stink219]

I think TOS and Hoffa Sux turned many people off and many didn't vote because of their bullying.

I agree with you on this!

Actually it was both sides ... from what I have observed at UPS and on Brown Cafe, there is no discussion, just in-your-face demands to vote someone's way.

I never have posted a demand to have someone vote a specific way. Actually, I see the more YES people simply state they voted YES and maybe the reasoning. The NO voters seem to have the philosophy of "If you don't vote NO your a stupid dumb idiot that is a sellout picket line crossing scab!". (last sentience used as an example and not as a personal attack towards anyone)

 

[pretender]

People profile for a reason. I'm also PT, and I spoke with hundreds of PTers within my facility encouraging them to vote, but it was obvious most were more interested in LeBron James. If the number I'm hearing for my local is indeed accurate, if every PTer within my Preload voted, it would constitute 60% of my locals votes (and would also mean many voted YES, which is unlikely). The actual vote return was probably less than 5%. Absolutely pathetic.

And it's hard to convince me our union isn't strong when the average FT, performing menial work, will be earning $94,000/year with no-cost health & welfare benefits. That's beyond the average income of somebody with an M.B.A., and is absolutely baffling. What happened is that the PTers choose once again to not get involved, so the union was forced to design a contract the incumbent FTers would pass - using PTers to subsidize the FT wage yet again.

If a FT driver is overpaid for doing menial work, what does that make your job (at $22 per hour)?

 

[island1fox]

Please don't toss politics into this. Even if the Republicans had continued to dominate Washington, UPS would've attacked health care. UPS has long sought to control the costs of union health care. In the last contract, Hall gave the company some serious concessions -- including the prized withdrawal from Central States Pension Fund. He had no more bargaining chips. This wasn't about ObamaCare. It was about UPS getting its feet wet in preparing union employees to ultimately contribute toward their health care. Next contract, UPS will be aggressive in seeking a longer FT progression, or even elimination of health care (possibly in favor of tuition reimbusement) to new PTers. Count on it.

And as far as uninformed voters... I'm just as informed, if not more informed, than you or anybody else. I'm pleased with my voting record -- sans Bush in 2000 (oh, to be young and stupid and listen to your parents). You may not agree with who I vote for, and I may not agree with who you vote for, but we should respect each other's opinions, rather than attacking them and insisting that one is better than the other (to you it may be, to be it may be different).

Bagels,
Put down the kool aid. Obamacare is the direct cause of the Companies Healthcare change. As much as you want it to be --it is not "BUSHCARE"

 

[Bagels]

Bagels,
Put down the kool aid. Obamacare is the direct cause of the Companies Healthcare change. As much as you want it to be --it is not "BUSHCARE"

I'm not drinking the Kool Aid. How long has UPS been charging non-union employees for health care that's diluted in benefits compared to the company plans currently offered to PTers? Nearly 20 years. Don't be naive - whoever was in the White House is completely irrelevant toward UPS desiring to shift some health care costs to its employees. Gotta turn off Rush Limbaugh, who believes police men that risk their lives everyday are overpaid at $50,000/year and "fat" union benefits. Speaking of fat... $50,000/year wouldn't even cover his doughnut budget.

If a FT driver is overpaid for doing menial work, what does that make your job (at $22 per hour)?

If you re-read my response, you'll have my answer.

 

[HEFFERNAN]

I can see where Bagels thinks FT driving is a high paying, low skilled job from his position as a career part timer.
He really didn't mean it as an insult, but did sting me that he feels its a menial, easy, and overpaid position.

Anybody can sit in their glass house, rocking in their chair with a lemonade, and point out overpaid jobs.

HEY LOOK AT THAT MAILMAN, JUST WALKING AROUND PUTTING LETTERS IN MAILBOXES, A MONKEY CAN DO THAT !

OH LOOK, EVEN A DUMMY CAN KEEP THE RED WIRE AWAY FROM THE BLACK WIRE, THAT ELECTRICIAN IS OVERPAID !

SEE THAT POLICEMAN DRIVING AROUND, HE EATS DONUTS AND JUST FILLS OUT ACCIDENT REPORTS, EVEN I CAN DO THAT !

Not walking in that man's shoes and calling his job menial would be a poisonous act.

Driver's responsibility takes on more than the physical act of delivery. The stress, BS, accident-free driving, commits, weather, bulked-out trucks, christmas, safety PCM's, air meets, telematics, memorizing safety terms, ungrateful sups, termination and warning letters, GPS, intolerable customers, misloads, traffic, unnumbered homes, dogs, slow pickup accounts, 150 lb packages, dirty hands, sore knees, unwarranted ODS requests, no truck idling for heat, damaged boxes, meet drivers and grab 15 more stops, ...........I could go on but you don't see that by putting a box in my 3000 section in climate controlled buildings

One more thing, the Union may have negotiated such a high pay rate, BUT UPS PAYS IT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE ARE WORTH
That should scare you more.

 

[quamba 638]

To those who didn't vote.... According to the official ups teamster website ONLY 35 percent of us teamsters returned the ballots before the other 3 locals are collected. Everyone is entitled to your own opinion on how you chose to vote. I personally voted no. If you voted yes, it was your right to, the same goes to the no voters. I just don't understand how somebody could be so lazy and not vote. All you had to do is check the box you chose and placed the cards back into 2 envelopes. It was prepaid as well!! It wouldn't have cost you a penny. Whenever the total is counted and it doesn't come out the way you wanted... Blame yourself!! You had a chance to change an outcome.

If you did vote yes/no, then thank you for being a brother/sister and having a voice.

You're probably barking up the wrong tree here. I'm sure most BC members vote. Have a talk with your co workers , I have talked with a lot of them over the last few months.

 

[island1fox]

I'm not drinking the Kool Aid. How long has UPS been charging non-union employees for health care that's diluted in benefits compared to the company plans currently offered to PTers? Nearly 20 years. Don't be naive - whoever was in the White House is completely irrelevant toward UPS desiring to shift some health care costs to its employees. Gotta turn off Rush Limbaugh, who believes police men that risk their lives everyday are overpaid at $50,000/year and "fat" union benefits. Speaking of fat... $50,000/year wouldn't even cover his doughnut budget.

Bagels,


You are right. Obamacare does not exist. People without healthcare insurance will not be forced to buy it. People will not have to pay fines.
Employers are not reducing hours and creating more part-time --less full time jobs because of Obamacare.
Obamacare mandates did not skyrocket healthcare costs. End of real facts. Back to la-la land --obamacare had nothing to do with negotiations and you are really well informed. End of story.

As old jack Nicholson once said --"you can't handle the truth"

 

[Bagels]

First off, my position is that corporate America continues to take too much from blue collar America, as evidenced from record worker productivity, record executive pay and decreasing worker compensation. I feel that the Teamsters at UPS highlight the strength in a union earning employees their fair share of the pie.

Secondly, I have -- many times -- worked as a seasonal driver.

But that doesn't change the fact that it's menial work. All employees receive some sort of company training. Companies like Delta Airlines provide their entry-level, minimum wage employees with eight-weeks paid classroom training -- but it deals with teaching the the company's info-structure, business & technology use, and is propitiatory in nature (cannot be used outside the company). In absence a CBA, markets dictate wages. This means that when you possess a marketable skill, you'll earn a similar wage no matter where you work -- and if you want a raise beyond inflation, you'll have to improve your skills or seek a promotion. But not at UPS -- the Teamsters guarantee that no matter how crummy an employee you are, as long as you don't commit an act of fraud or dishonestly, you'll retain your job and earn a decent raise every single year. Let's not be silly that UPS pays you $32+/hour with no-cost benefits, not because of a union, but because that's what you are worth. There's oodles of guys in their 20s and 30s left underemployed in this economy who are willing & more than capable of doing your job for half your compensation, yet there's tens of thousands of vacant jobs in math & science related fields, despite high unemployment.

And let's not be sillier on office politics: all jobs had them. A couple years ago, I took on a third job at a grocery store. I had to deal with (cash register) rings per minute, scans per minute, produce efficiency ratings (e.g. when cutting melons, my effectiveness in preventing waste)... I had to maintain & replenish the produce while being called to the cash register every 5 minutes, while being "asked" to carry out customer's groceries to their cars, while being asked to assist customer's in their wine selections (since I have knowledge in the area), etc. I was constantly screamed & yelled at, was written up several times for things like wearing a red tie (which is allegedly a color only to be worn by management). I was brought into the office by LP and told I was captured on-camera doing whippets -- and I'm somebody who's never been drunk in my life, let alone do something sill like whippets. One day, as I was about to punch out at the end of a 40-hour week, my manager told me that if the produce department wasn't in perfect condition by the time he arrived the next morning, I would be suspended (they had me assisting customers elsewhere the whole busy day) - indirectly telling me to work off the clock. So I told me 'before you suspend me, I'm quitting.' For this I earned 7.25/hour -- 5 cents above minimum wage.

Stop pretending that other jobs don't incur the same abuse as yours.

I can see where Bagels thinks FT driving is a high paying, low skilled job from his position as a career part timer.
He really didn't mean it as an insult, but did sting me that he feels its a menial, easy, and overpaid position.<snip>
One more thing, the Union may have negotiated such a high pay rate, BUT UPS PAYS IT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE ARE WORTH

 

[ups hero]

To those who didn't vote.... According to the official ups teamster website ONLY 35 percent of us teamsters returned the ballots before the other 3 locals are collected. Everyone is entitled to your own opinion on how you chose to vote. I personally voted no. If you voted yes, it was your right to, the same goes to the no voters. I just don't understand how somebody could be so lazy and not vote. All you had to do is check the box you chose and placed the cards back into 2 envelopes. It was prepaid as well!! It wouldn't have cost you a penny. Whenever the total is counted and it doesn't come out the way you wanted... Blame yourself!! You had a chance to change an outcome.

If you did vote yes/no, then thank you for being a brother/sister and having a voice.

You're probably barking up the wrong tree here. I'm sure most BC members vote. Have a talk with your co workers , I have talked with a lot of them over the last few months.

You are right. I've been thinking about this the past couple of days and actually felt bad about writing my long rant. After 2 days I did realize probably about 90 % of us on BC did vote. The remaining 10, I still believe may be trolls. I've been with the company almost 13 yrs, and like a lot of people on here I complain about the place. However, at the end of the day I'm proud that I work for this company, as do most of us. I was just angry at the low voting turnout overall. Somebody said it perfect that most would rather vote for the next American Idol or Survivor. It's scary but true. I apologize for sounding like jerk early on.

 

[Bagels]

You are right. Obamacare does not exist. People without healthcare insurance will not be forced to buy it. People will not have to pay fines.
Employers are not reducing hours and creating more part-time --less full time jobs because of Obamacare.
Obamacare mandates did not skyrocket healthcare costs. End of real facts. Back to la-la land --obamacare had nothing to do with negotiations and you are really well informed. End of story.

As old jack Nicholson once said --"you can't handle the truth"

Since ObamaCare was announced, the rate health care costs have risen has been at its lowest in my lifetime. Apparently you can't handle the truth... And I already pay for the millions of uninsured/underinsured who use the health care system, but don't pay for it. At least now they'll be forced to take care of their bills.

But to suggest that ObamaCare was behind UPS's decision is total B.S. ObamaCare will have little impact on UPS, and that impact will continue on TEAMCARE, with UPS footing the bill. This wasn't about ObamaCare. It was about UPS attempting to get its feet wet in shifting some costs to the employees, just as they have proposed before, and just as they have charged non-union employees for 20 years.

I live in reality, sorry.

 

[Squint]

I can see where Bagels thinks FT driving is a high paying, low skilled job from his position as a career part timer.
He really didn't mean it as an insult, but did sting me that he feels its a menial, easy, and overpaid position.

Anybody can sit in their glass house, rocking in their chair with a lemonade, and point out overpaid jobs.

HEY LOOK AT THAT MAILMAN, JUST WALKING AROUND PUTTING LETTERS IN MAILBOXES, A MONKEY CAN DO THAT !

OH LOOK, EVEN A DUMMY CAN KEEP THE RED WIRE AWAY FROM THE BLACK WIRE, THAT ELECTRICIAN IS OVERPAID !

SEE THAT POLICEMAN DRIVING AROUND, HE EATS DONUTS AND JUST FILLS OUT ACCIDENT REPORTS, EVEN I CAN DO THAT !

Not walking in that man's shoes and calling his job menial would be a poisonous act.

Driver's responsibility takes on more than the physical act of delivery. The stress, BS, accident-free driving, commits, weather, bulked-out trucks, christmas, safety PCM's, air meets, telematics, memorizing safety terms, ungrateful sups, termination and warning letters, GPS, intolerable customers, misloads, traffic, unnumbered homes, dogs, slow pickup accounts, 150 lb packages, dirty hands, sore knees, unwarranted ODS requests, no truck idling for heat, damaged boxes, meet drivers and grab 15 more stops, ...........I could go on but you don't see that by putting a box in my 3000 section in climate controlled buildings

One more thing, the Union may have negotiated such a high pay rate, BUT UPS PAYS IT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE ARE WORTH
That should scare you more.

And to expand on these thoughts...if you are from the old school when we OLD drivers were on paper. We collected COD's in cash, so we were bankers. We were map planners in our heads because no 2 days were alike and we couldn't follow the DIAD. I too could go on and on but I think you get the idea. UPS is/was not a menial job. I will leave Bagels with the thought of that one NDA letter that you have for the middle of your route and the ground packages that you know are in the middle of the floor that will be in your way all day. Do you deliver the grounds? Do you have enough time to get your last air off in time if you do?

 

[ups hero]

Have a talk with your co workers , I have talked with a lot of them over the last few months.

Believe me, I did. I work at a very large
Facility with a Hub and Center. I work in the center which has a very small crew compared to the hub. I bet maybe 40 tops. I am confident that at least 80 percent voted. As for the hub...well...(silence)

 

[Bagels]

And to expand on these thoughts...if you are from the old school when we OLD drivers were on paper. We collected COD's in cash, so we were bankers. We were map planners in our heads because no 2 days were alike and we couldn't follow the DIAD. I too could go on and on but I think you get the idea. UPS is/was not a menial job. I will leave Bagels with the thought of that one NDA letter that you have for the middle of your route and the ground packages that you know are in the middle of the floor that will be in your way all day. Do you deliver the grounds? Do you have enough time to get your last air off in time if you do?

There are hundreds of thousands of delivery drivers TODAY in that same position, including many at FedEx Ground. Are they earning anything close to $32/hour with no-cost benefits? People with a marketable skill earn a similar wage, regardless of employer.

 

[pretender]

I had to maintain & replenish the produce while being called to the cash register every 5 minutes, while being "asked" to carry out customer's groceries to their cars, while being asked to assist customer's in their wine selections (since I have knowledge in the area), etc.

Why am I not surprised...

 

[HBGPreloader]

People can't be bothered to vote in elections that directly impact them but most can't wait to vote for the next American Idol or to vote the next contestant off the island on Survivor.

What is even more disturbing is they'll happily pay those fees to cast their vote too.

 

[HBGPreloader]

Since ObamaCare was announced, the rate health care costs have risen has been at its lowest in my lifetime...

You may want to check your references because insurance rate increases were at their lowest before obamacare was passed into law...



http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/09/27/business/A-Jump-in-Health-Care-Premiums.html?ref=business&_r=0