You should be ashamed of yourself!!

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
You may want to check your references because insurance rate increases were at their lowest before obamacare was passed into law...

The article is two years old, and premiums have dropped sharply since.

Why am I not surprised...

I don't know? If you're implying I'm a drunk, I'll remind you (it's posted above) that I've never been drunk in my life, and will take a can of Coke over a bottle of beer any day. But I do enjoy a glass of wine with my meal.
 

island1fox

Well-Known Member
Since ObamaCare was announced, the rate health care costs have risen has been at its lowest in my lifetime. Apparently you can't handle the truth... And I already pay for the millions of uninsured/underinsured who use the health care system, but don't pay for it. At least now they'll be forced to take care of their bills.

But to suggest that ObamaCare was behind UPS's decision is total B.S. ObamaCare will have little impact on UPS, and that impact will continue on TEAMCARE, with UPS footing the bill. This wasn't about ObamaCare. It was about UPS attempting to get its feet wet in shifting some costs to the employees, just as they have proposed before, and just as they have charged non-union employees for 20 years.

I live in reality, sorry.

bagels,

Sorry . You are wrong and mis-informed.
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
bagels,

Sorry . You are wrong and mis-informed.

Your opinions do not make me "wrong and mis-informed."

Do you have any decisive proof that UPS's decision to aggressively seek co-premiums is a direct result of ObamaCare? (Please note: propaganda does not meet the definition for "decisive proof.") UPS's decision to change non-union employees increasing co-premiums for nearly 20 years, alongside the fact that the idea of charging co-premiums has been tossed around for several contracts, suggests otherwise. Hall, unfortunately, foolhardily gave away all his chips last contract.
 

sortaisle

Livin the cardboard dream
There is a difference between premiums dropping and the rate of increase dropping. One means there has been a drop in dollars out of our pockets and the other means more dollars are still coming out of our pockets but not as much of an increase as the previous years. This is a tactic Obama loves to use...word play to make things sound better. Granted, things are better-ish but most people read it as a decrease in money out of their pockets when it isn't. Other presidents have done the same as well. Bagels, while it's true that UPS has been trying to get us to pay premiums for the last couple of contracts, since the ACA has been slowly enacted UPS made a HARD IMMOVABLE stance of getting out of the insurance business. You can't say it's because of the ACA but you can say that the ACA is the elephant in the room when it comes to UPS wanting out.
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
There is a difference between premiums dropping and the rate of increase dropping. One means there has been a drop in dollars out of our pockets and the other means more dollars are still coming out of our pockets but not as much of an increase as the previous years. This is a tactic Obama loves to use...word play to make things sound better. Granted, things are better-ish but most people read it as a decrease in money out of their pockets when it isn't. Other presidents have done the same as well. Bagels, while it's true that UPS has been trying to get us to pay premiums for the last couple of contracts, since the ACA has been slowly enacted UPS made a HARD IMMOVABLE stance of getting out of the insurance business. You can't say it's because of the ACA but you can say that the ACA is the elephant in the room when it comes to UPS wanting out.

What you've written is a classic example of a fallacy.

In 2007, UPS's achieved a huge goal in the withdrawal from Central States Pension Fund. They also successfully convinced the rank-and-file to move toward a less costly PPO insurance program (with sweet terms) -- and received plenty of other huge concessions, including the deferment of benefits for PT employees of 12/18 months and the increased usage of cover drivers. For this, the rank-and-file received a $4 / 5 year raise.

It's 2013. Many Managerial employees are upset with the increased hours they've been working, smaller raises & bonuses (many describe them as below market) and increased health care contributions -- all of which has helped contribute to UPS's huge profits, of course. And yet for some reason, the rank-and-file on BrownCafe somehow believes that UPS was seeking to reward them with continued, no-cost excellent company-provided health care & $8/5 year raises.

Without a doubt -- REGARDLESS of the politics in Washington the last several years -- UPS was going to seek de facto concessions, as they've done every single contract. Hall played his chips, and the biggest thing I{S could put on the table was health care. 97% of private sector employees contribute toward their health care - an average of $4300 annually for family coverage. We're among the 3% that pay nothing, and UPS is now battling high labor costs vs. the competition. Without a doubt, the move it made was in preparation in getting its feet wet toward future concessions. It could be that UPS believes that ObamaCare will cost it slightly more, but it's pure naivety to believe that we were going to walk away with continued no-cost company provided health care at the same levels we enjoyed over the past 5 years.

(And for the record ACA was never designed to lower health care costs, but rather to stop the slow the huge rate of increases that have made it unafforable among many employers. Yes, several politicians have slipped on this.)
 

pretender

Well-Known Member


The article is two years old, and premiums have dropped sharply since.



I don't know? If you're implying I'm a drunk, I'll remind you (it's posted above) that I've never been drunk in my life, and will take a can of Coke over a bottle of beer any day. But I do enjoy a glass of wine with my meal.

I was implying that you are a know-it-all.
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
I was implying that you are a know-it-all.

If being able to back up opinions & assertions with supporting facts makes me a know-it-all, then so be it. That would make those who don't "ignorant."

If me asserting that "package car driving" is a menial position upset you, then I'm sorry you can't accept the truth. All that really matte$ i$ the $$$ anyway.
 

pretender

Well-Known Member
If being able to back up opinions & assertions with supporting facts makes me a know-it-all, then so be it. That would make those who don't "ignorant."

If me asserting that "package car driving" is a menial position upset you, then I'm sorry you can't accept the truth. All that really matte$ i$ the $$$ anyway.

It didn't upset me--I was a Feeder driver.
 

Bizzob232

2nd generation UPSer
This post has bothered me all day so I have some criticisms 1) When a Part Timer profiles that a Full Time package driver's work is menial, I will take offense. We don't exactly deliver pizzas brother. Since the arrival of PAS/EDD, GPS, and Telematics, I can honestly say that not one driver would consider that 10 hour shift "MENIAL". Before the digital depositories and public traded UPS stock, there were plenty of easy days and getting out early for drivers. Those days have gone the way of beepers, 1800 Collect commercials, and a MTV channel that still showed music videos.

By definition, your job is menial; hence why tens of thousands of off-the-street seasonal hires are able to perform the same job as you (after a learning curve). ANY job is going to require some level of skill. At UPS, I'd argue that it's the corporate culture - not the job itself - that causes most people to fail. Not to mention that most Americans, even though capable of manual labor, prefer not to do it... why is why we hire people to mow out lawns and clean our homes. What separates me from the average driver is that I know that if I were to leave UPS today, I would not find another job paying anything close to $21/hour + no-cost health & welfare benefits for my current skill set. OTOH, many drivers are convinced that they could walk away from UPS and earn $32+ with no-cost health & welfare benefits. What's FedEx Ground hiring at again...?

2) Your mind has been poisoned by all the contract BS on this website. Full time UPSERS didn't subsidize part timers for a penny !!!! All full timers and part timers GOT THE SAME RAISE, ON THE SAME DAY, FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF YEARS. Current full timers didn't get more than every one else. PERIOD Progression grew by a year but now no more outside hires, just more fellow Teamsters delivering which is a good thing

In a union shop that pays FT employees $32/hour, PT employees are starting below minimum wage in many areas. The new contract moves the bar just enough so that isn't so. The reality is that UPS isn't an endless pot of money -- there's only so much to go around, and the FTers continue to take more than their share (PTers can blame themselves for not voting). Hall has acknowledged that he felt PTers deserved a bigger piece of the pie, but made it clear that he needed to present a contract that would pass. PT wages are kept low, casual/temporary/seasonal/cover wages are kept low (and statement - you make the same regardless of how many years you've performed the work), the number of casual/temporary/seasonal/cover drivers has increased, the "free period" has increased, the wage progression has increased, etc. to keep FTers earning record wages. IN other words, these employee groups are subsidizing your wages.

3) When you leave high school and walk into the real world, you have 3 choices A) go to school 4 years plus with student loans to get a degree then try to find a high paying job B) find a trade (electrician, carpenter, UPS), join the Union and get hands-on experience and a career or C) Join the School of Hard Knocks and hope to make it My benefit package is fantastic but I know a lot of tradesman that make pretty close to my Top Rate. Nothing baffling about it !!!

I don't disagree with you at all here. But UPS is not a trade. A trade is a marketable skill (e.g. not menial work). If I were a plumber or electrician, I could work independently or shop my skills to the highest employer. But a delivery driver? Who else is paying $32+/hour with no-cost benefits? The average wage for a FT delivery driver, per the BLS, is in the $30K range -- about a third of what the average UPS driver will earn at the end of the new contract, and that doesn't even take into consideration benefits.

Nonetheless, I agree that after high-school, you have the option of attending college, acquiring a tradesman skill, joining the School of Hard Knocks or seeking a union job. But I'll also point out that it takes about 10 years in much of the country to go FT at UPS. Yes, I'm aware many incumbent FTers had to wait 5-10 years. And I'm aware they were earning $9/hour as well. But not in 2013. They were earning $8/hour when $1 bought a gallon of gas, not $4 as it is today. Not to mention that the average number of hours PTer work has plummeted, especially over the past 5 years. The reality is that in 2013, if you're a PTer hoping to go FT, you have to start young, make even more scarifies than the previous generation, and delay your future (e.g. wait starting a family, etc.) Of course, it'll pay off. But it shouldn't be this way, and it doesn't have to be.


Our job is menial and corporate culture causes people to fail. Flag on the play, that's complete BS. Most people are able to drive, most people can selectively remember where to deliver 100+ stops a day, most people can lift/push/pull/walk. Not too many can do those all in a day, 5 days a week, all year, double or more the workload during peak, for 20 to 30 YEARS!! You ever wonder what the driver turn over rate is? Not as high at the p/t turn over is from those smart enough to realize they physically and mentally can't handle that type of work for the rest of their career. But you're right, it's menial, and down right easy. That's why they don't pay us so well :-(
 

UPS92008

Member
I voted and voted no on all three ballots. Here's the problem. My family is paperless on all bills. Most bills do transfers for the full balance automatically. This is the age we live in. I can check the mailbox once a week and 99% of it goes into the paper shredder. I can check all my bills online at any given time. Hell I even have app's that do things for me.

The union is still operating in the stone age with regard to information and voting. Don't even get me started on the 4 hour union meeting that didn't even touch on health care until the last ten minutes. Most members had left before that. This is super important to all of our lives and the information that we need to make a informed decision trickles out so slowly that it by no means can grab attention. 66k voted. Where were the other 165k members?? In the dark? Didn't get a ballot? Didn't or couldn't find information? I knew we were fuct 3 years ago when I asked one of our BA's about Affordable Care Act.

Think about this...all the teamsters mailers that you get are old news. I get the teamsters magazine and a southern california newspaper type mailer. The local 542 info rarely has anything about ups in its highlights. Where are the teamsters when it comes to UPS??? Crickets....
 

Wally

BrownCafe Innovator & King of Puns
We had a whole bunch of folks that voted for the president two times just because of his skin color or they thought he was going to pay all their bills and give them a car or a cell phone. Those type of voters I wish would stay home.
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
I voted no 5 times. Once on the master, twice on my supplement and twice on my rider. That's 5 no votes.

Sent using BrownCafe App
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
Jonah's Justice. I don't even know if that is a real term. I made it up...i think. Just don't despair when the Creator decides to continue to show mercy rather than the retribution we deserve. Rejoice in His mercy, and dance in His Grace for no generation has ever been worthy.

You have a quote for the Atheist's in the crowd too?
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
What you've written is a classic example of a fallacy.

In 2007, UPS's achieved a huge goal in the withdrawal from Central States Pension Fund. They also successfully convinced the rank-and-file to move toward a less costly PPO insurance program (with sweet terms) -- and received plenty of other huge concessions, including the deferment of benefits for PT employees of 12/18 months and the increased usage of cover drivers. For this, the rank-and-file received a $4 / 5 year raise.

It's 2013. Many Managerial employees are upset with the increased hours they've been working, smaller raises & bonuses (many describe them as below market) and increased health care contributions -- all of which has helped contribute to UPS's huge profits, of course. And yet for some reason, the rank-and-file on BrownCafe somehow believes that UPS was seeking to reward them with continued, no-cost excellent company-provided health care & $8/5 year raises.

Without a doubt -- REGARDLESS of the politics in Washington the last several years -- UPS was going to seek de facto concessions, as they've done every single contract. Hall played his chips, and the biggest thing I{S could put on the table was health care. 97% of private sector employees contribute toward their health care - an average of $4300 annually for family coverage. We're among the 3% that pay nothing, and UPS is now battling high labor costs vs. the competition. Without a doubt, the move it made was in preparation in getting its feet wet toward future concessions. It could be that UPS believes that ObamaCare will cost it slightly more, but it's pure naivety to believe that we were going to walk away with continued no-cost company provided health care at the same levels we enjoyed over the past 5 years.

(And for the record ACA was never designed to lower health care costs, but rather to stop the slow the huge rate of increases that have made it unafforable among many employers. Yes, several politicians have slipped on this.)

You may as well quit now. I've been down this path, and it leads to nowhere. You will find far more satisfaction by saying, "You, sir, are very intelligent, and quite correct." I know, I know, it seems counter-intuitive, but happiness lies in the disengagement.

Trust me...
 
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