Edison NJ

[Omega man]

If UPS management treated their employees fairly and acted in good faith by respecting and abiding by our contract this would not be necessary. Management can't seem to do this so they deserve what they get.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080922070425/http://www.tdu.org/node/2375

 

[tieguy]

[QUOOriginally Posted by tieguy
No doubt in my mind. Its part of our overall operating plan to kidnap you into slavery driving our trucks. I'm sure you folks and UPS will now all be the best of friends after you flew that plane.

See here is what I can't figure out.

You guys say your side has done everything right in private and ups would not listen to you and forced you into this act.

But the world sees that your side made this public.
UPS didn't rent a plane and fly a banner you guys did.

yet we are supposed to believe that your side is the good guys in this dispute.

To me I see you guys throwing the first punch and then trying to say you were somehow made to throw that punch.TE]

You must be kidding! This company signs a contract with this union and then every single day they try to subvert that agreement. And we threw the first punch ?

Thats the honorable way to do buisness ?

And I know my guys are far from perfect.
But the fact remains that my guys did not lose their cool and hire a plane to fly a banner.
Your guys did.
So your guys did throw the first punch where my guys acted with honor and kept this in house.
Today is another day where again my side did not respond to this outrage with anything but quiet professionalism.
I really hope Local 177 is paying attention. If they can learn to keep their cool and stay away from the theatrics then I think they can do a better job of representing their members.

On the labor forum there is a thread about decisions at the national panel. Reading through it , it looks like Local 177 may have more cases in front of the national then any other local. Your guys think this shows that they have balls as if balls and no brains is all they need.
But when you look at those cases and you then see the airplane temper tantrum I wonder if the guys running 177 are able to do their jobs. The signs are there that these guys are unable to get things resolved at the local level. So they grandstand to cover up their failures.

You guys all claim you want to make your union stronger but you refuse to do so by taking a good hard objective look at events.

Everytime I've seen someone grandstand like 177 did it usually was a sign that their leadership was ill equiped to do their job.

 

[tieguy]

If UPS management treated their employees fairly and acted in good faith by respecting and abiding by our contract this would not be necessary. Management can't seem to do this so they deserve what they get.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080922070425/http://www.tdu.org/node/2375

Assuming your point is correct do you really think that your locals airplane temper tantrum will do anything to improve relations.

Like I said before God help the guys near the bottom of the building seniority list in that building and god help anyone who comes up dirty on discipline in that building.

I've always loved the mentality that tells someone that throwing the punch is worth the time in jail and the loss of a job or house.
If your guys don't know how to run a union without throwing a public temper tantrum then maybe they should find other work.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Don't get island1fox to riled up. You may be charged with elder abuse.

 

[The Milkman]

If UPS management treated their employees fairly and acted in good faith by respecting and abiding by our contract this would not be necessary. Management can't seem to do this so they deserve what they get.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080922070425/http://www.tdu.org/node/2375

I was there 8 years before I retired. I agree with you as I have seen much in the other bldgs I was in for my 25 years. If you don't open your mouth when you see violations then the contract is worthless.

 

[Omega man]

Assuming your point is correct do you really think that your locals airplane temper tantrum will do anything to improve relations.

Like I said before God help the guys near the bottom of the building seniority list in that building and god help anyone who comes up dirty on discipline in that building.

I've always loved the mentality that tells someone that throwing the punch is worth the time in jail and the loss of a job or house.
If your guys don't know how to run a union without throwing a public temper tantrum then maybe they should find other work.

I fail to see how intentionally disregarding our contract is honorable as you claim management is.
Coming up dirty is a two way street. God help any manager who comes up as such also. It is certainly easier to find a dirty manager than a dirty hourly.
We can protect ourselves just by doing the job as UPS describes it to be done. Of course, then we will all be three hours over-plan. The best way to get back at any management team who thinks that they can be successful by treating employees badly is to simply do the job by the book. We all know what a bunch of hypocrites UPS management is.

 

[Dragon]

It is certainly easier to find a dirty manager than a dirty hourly.

Did you just wake up? Cause you live in one heck of a fantasy world.

 

[tieguy]

I fail to see how intentionally disregarding our contract is honorable as you claim management is.

They didn't violate the contract in this case they worked within the grievance process. Your guys went outside the contract with their airplane theatrics. So at this point without both sides here to argue the point the only visible sign we have of a contract violation is from your side.

Coming up dirty is a two way street. God help any manager who comes up as such also. It is certainly easier to find a dirty manager than a dirty hourly.

It won't be the panic jockeys at 177 sitting in judgement of management.
It will be management sitting in judgement of the poor schumuck at edinj that has to lose his job because of the panic jockeys at 177.

We can protect ourselves just by doing the job as UPS describes it to be done. Of course, then we will all be three hours over-plan.

I agree do the job the way you have been trained and instructed.

The best way to get back at any management team who thinks that they can be successful by treating employees badly is to simply do the job by the book. We all know what a bunch of hypocrites UPS management is.

See thats the problem. You guys sit around and plot on how to get back at management. Thats not doing your job. thats not what you are paid to do. You're not here to run the company you're here to do a job for the company. If you and your buddies at Edison would stop plotting on how to get back at someone you would have a lot less problems.

Its a simple lesson of life and where we all fit it that some of us never learn. I'm glad you at least admit there was a plot to get back at the company.

 

[island1fox]

Steve,
Good sense of humor ! But in truth at six foot two --200 pounds --I run at least twelve miles per week ---can still kick butt !!

 

[island1fox]

See thats the problem. You guys sit around and plot on how to get back at management. Thats not doing your job. thats not what you are paid to do. You're not here to run the company you're here to do a job for the company. If you and your buddies at Edison would stop plotting on how to get back at someone you would have a lot less problems.

Its a simple lesson of life and where we all fit it that some of us never learn. I'm glad you at least admit there was a plot to get back at the company.

Tieguy,
I personally would not spend a career or lifetime at a company I felt was so evil. But on this thread I believe you are now wasting your time.
Union brothers --rah rah rah --grieve ,yell ,scream.
Easy questions --Why has Union membership declined so drastically in the United States over the past 30 years ?
How many companies have been driven into bankruptcy by unions?

Yes, we will hear alot of thats B.S. but facts are facts --as I stated earlier -much easy for the union to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs --rather than work to organize fedx ground.
You can see the enlightened union members believe that all of fedx is covered under the RLA ---Fedx ground is NLRB --same as UPS.
Easier to cry about a part time supervisor touching a package ---than organizing thousands of non-union drivers delivering what could be Teamster work day after day.
But bottom line for me ----steve made me respond with his post --but this topic has been beaten to death ---

 

[bluehdmc]

Island Fox, you keep asking, "Why don't they organize fedex ground?"

One of the problems trying to organize fedex ground is the drivers are all "independent contractors". Even if an IC owns 3 trucks then you have to organize the 3 workers, sign a contract w/their employer, go to the next IC and repeat the process, etc, etc. I'm sure somewheres in the fine print in the IC's agreement with fedex, there is a way fedex could then void the agreement, particularly if it is an "at will" type of agreement. There are currently some state Attorney Generals going after fedex under the concept that the IC's are employees because of fedex's guidelines/work rules. (Maybe because state budgets are short funded and it's an additional source of revenue.)
If the states win the case maybe there is a better chance of organizing employees as opposed to IC's. A lot less contracts, saving paper.

 

[tieguy]

Tieguy,
I personally would not spend a career or lifetime at a company I felt was so evil. But on this thread I believe you are now wasting your time.

I don't disagree but I persist in the hopes some of the posters here may someday understand that it takes two sides to screw up labor relations.

 

[Dragon]

You're not here to run the company you're here to do a job for the company

Ladies and Gentlemen the ball has been knocked out of the park with that swing!!

Tie, that is the most profound statement I have read in a long time.

Kind of like saying: You work for me and not the other way around!!

 

[Bubblehead]

Island Fox, you keep asking, "Why don't they organize fedex ground?"

One of the problems trying to organize fedex ground is the drivers are all "independent contractors". Even if an IC owns 3 trucks then you have to organize the 3 workers, sign a contract w/their employer, go to the next IC and repeat the process, etc, etc. I'm sure somewheres in the fine print in the IC's agreement with fedex, there is a way fedex could then void the agreement, particularly if it is an "at will" type of agreement. There are currently some state Attorney Generals going after fedex under the concept that the IC's are employees because of fedex's guidelines/work rules. (Maybe because state budgets are short funded and it's an additional source of revenue.)
If the states win the case maybe there is a better chance of organizing employees as opposed to IC's. A lot less contracts, saving paper.

Island1Fox knows all that.
He thinks he's throwing up a big "smoke screen" and that us dumb truck driver won't understand.
He's trying to throw us off the trail.
What I do understand about why we haven't organized FedEx Ground (yet), is that it has nothing to do with what's going on at the UPS Edison Hub.
Don't fall for his shell game.

 

[Bubblehead]

You're not here to run the company you're here to do a job for the company

Ladies and Gentlemen the ball has been knocked out of the park with that swing!!

Tie, that is the most profound statement I have read in a long time.

Kind of like saying: You work for me and not the other way around!!

That would be profound had you not sold me stock in "OUR" company.
Looks like Tie missed with that "foul" ball boys and girls.

 

[island1fox]

Island Fox, you keep asking, "Why don't they organize fedex ground?"

One of the problems trying to organize fedex ground is the drivers are all "independent contractors". Even if an IC owns 3 trucks then you have to organize the 3 workers, sign a contract w/their employer, go to the next IC and repeat the process, etc, etc. I'm sure somewheres in the fine print in the IC's agreement with fedex, there is a way fedex could then void the agreement, particularly if it is an "at will" type of agreement. There are currently some state Attorney Generals going after fedex under the concept that the IC's are employees because of fedex's guidelines/work rules. (Maybe because state budgets are short funded and it's an additional source of revenue.)
If the states win the case maybe there is a better chance of organizing employees as opposed to IC's. A lot less contracts, saving paper.

Not trying to get into a pissing match with you over Fed x .
But I think you would be surprised with the "cosolidation" that the old RPS now fedx contractors have done over the years. In many of the "major" areas --Edison would be one of them --you will find "contractors" with five --ten --fifteen and more. They have been successful and have driven out or combined with other contractors. Even if they are "at will" Fed x nor the contractors could replace that many drivers at the same time. The real problem is that it will take alot of work by the union --HARD work.
No offense but in many locations the drivers and partimers hardly ever see their Business Agents. Many of them "drop" in once a week for coffee in the A.M. What do you think they do the rest of the day while you are pulling a load ?? In some places ---years ago in Edison and Secaucus the strip bars had regular customers ----Now ? who Knows --but if you believe the union is doing the best it can for your long term security by fighting UPS tooth and nail ----- there is really nothing more I can say ---Peace !!!

 

[Dragon]

I am sure that you were coerced into buying it.

Sell it - it will make you and us feel better.

 

[Bubblehead]

Not trying to get into a pissing match with you over Fed x .
But I think you would be surprised with the "cosolidation" that the old RPS now fedx contractors have done over the years. In many of the "major" areas --Edison would be one of them --you will find "contractors" with five --ten --fifteen and more. They have been successful and have driven out or combined with other contractors. Even if they are "at will" Fed x nor the contractors could replace that many drivers at the same time. The real problem is that it will take alot of work by the union --HARD work.
No offense but in many locations the drivers and partimers hardly ever see their Business Agents. Many of them "drop" in once a week for coffee in the A.M. What do you think they do the rest of the day while you are pulling a load ?? In some places ---years ago in Edison and Secaucus the strip bars had regular customers ----Now ? who Knows --but if you believe the union is doing the best it can for your long term security by fighting UPS tooth and nail ----- there is really nothing more I can say ---Peace !!!

Smoke screen.

 

[Bubblehead]

I am sure that you were coerced into buying it.

Sell it - it will make you and us feel better.

Don't think so, PARTNER!!!

 

[Bubblehead]

You're not here to run the company you're here to do a job for the company

Ladies and Gentlemen the ball has been knocked out of the park with that swing!!

Tie, that is the most profound statement I have read in a long time.

Kind of like saying: You work for me and not the other way around!!

That would be profound had you not sold me stock in "OUR" company.
Looks like Tie missed with that "foul" ball boys and girls.

I am sure that you were coerced into buying it.

Sell it - it will make you and us feel better.

Don't think so, PARTNER!!!

You ought to quit while your behind.