Edison NJ

[Bubblehead]

Klien '
I also have a suggestion for every grievance filed that is proved to be false --the employee is discharged for dishonesty !!!! Please lets both not act like jerks.
How about lets develop more volume!!
How about lets unionize Fed x
How about the union and company work together to get the U.S. post office to stop misusing their monopoly --artficially lowering parcel rates and stealing volume off of Teamsters.

The playing field with Fedx is not level now ---with all the B.S.you people are involved in--you will not be happy until another UNION company goes belly up. Oh I almost forgot --Klein --you no longer work for UPS ---why not stir up the masses???

Have been gone that long not to know most of what you just asked for is already in the works?

 

[Bubblehead]

Gee, why Unionize fedex ?
You don't work for them either !
And why stop there, lets unionize the whole country !
Germany works that way. Every bartender, waitress, hairsystylist... Basically every single job is union there.

I don't know why you are so angry about all this.
UPS needed a wakeup call, and they got it.
Every company needs one now and then.

We had nurses picketing the streets last month (off work hrs, since they are not on strike).
But, they gave the government a wake up call.
Nothing wrong with that.

Didn't you hear Klein, Island lived the American dream.
He worked his way out indentured servitude to a high ranking managerial position with UPS.
Just like everyone of us could and should.
He bleeds brown.
He is older and seen more than anybody and deserves our unfaltering respect.
How dare anybody rise up and question anything company says or does.
Shame on you.
Shame on me.

 

[tieguy]

I also have no "irons in this fire" except for the fact that they are all my union brothers. (I know you hate that Tie)
I agree you keep your business in house when and if possible.
It would seem they're well past that.
.

We don't know the details. I find it funny that your brothers talk about honoring the contract but don't see the loss of honor in taking the disagreements public.

 

[island1fox]

Railway Act, Island, maybe you heard of it?
Teamsters in conjunction with UPS are actively working toward removing FedEx from this legislation which has insulated them from unionization.
Presently we can't organize the huge FedEx building across the street from the Edison building unless we organize every building across the country.
Once again if UPS deemed it economically viable to close that hub it would, will, or would have already.
No handbill, airplane banner, etc will push UPS off their bottom line.
The International like UPS would not experience a volume loss with this hub closure.
It would be a volume shift.
There would still be X# pkgs going to X# recipients.
There may be some unfortunate innocent bystanders with some lucky individuals to pick up the slack on the other end.
In the end it will be what the company thinks will be the most profitable and the Teamsters will have a comparable number of members.

Bubblehead'
I really am not looking to give you a hard way to go --but all of us should know the facts before we speak
The railway labor act covers fed x purple --the original company --fed x green or fed x ground is under the same NLRB as UPS. Also fex x ground has been battling the sub-contractor vs employee action. The union if free to go into the fedx ground green --in Edison and unionize the drivers that are there ------I t gets a little complicated ---both the RLA is only ups purple !!
ALSO --I think you are a little confused ---Some posts have stated that this public ad action could very well cause customers to divert volume. If enough volume was diverted or lost to other carriers Ups would lose and so would the Union .If there are less packages there are less jobs ---very simple ---very sad ! I friend a customer in Edison shifts their business across the street to fed x ground --they do not have to worry about ups or the union ---the customer has the choice --not ups or the union !!!

 

[island1fox]

Didn't you hear Klein, Island lived the American dream.
He worked his way out indentured servitude to a high ranking managerial position with UPS.
Just like everyone of us could and should.
He bleeds brown.
He is older and seen more than anybody and deserves our unfaltering respect.
How dare anybody rise up and question anything company says or does.
Shame on you.
Shame on me.[/QUOTE


Bubblehead,
As a proud UPS retiree I do believe I have more of a right to my opinion than someone who was fired ----????
Also Klien should be more concerned with problems in his Country rather than ours !!!

 

[Bubblehead]

Bubblehead,
As a proud UPS retiree I do believe I have more of a right to my opinion than someone who was fired ----????
Also Klien should be more concerned with problems in his Country rather than ours !!!

No Island, this is America, and you have no more right to your opinion than anybody else.
You might argue that you have more credibility, to which I would not argue.
Again, sorry Klein.
Actually this site knows no national boundaries.
Our common thread is UPS.
I contend that the highlighted portion of your quoted post is your inherent weakness.

 

[MobileBA]

Hasn't Germanys' unionized economy stabilized way before the US without the trillions of dollars in false stimulus and low interest rates?

 

[MobileBA]

"We don't know the details. I find it funny that your brothers talk about honoring the contract but don't see the loss of honor in taking the disagreements public." How long should we be patient with the company? Airline Mechanics 4years?

 

[JimJimmyJames]

Jimjimmyjames'
I could be wrong --but we probably agree more than we disagree !!!

Island1fox,

I think we see the same problems but just from our own unique angle .

And I am sure if the world gave a damn about what we think and gave us a shot at fixing things, our solutions just might share some common ground.

But while we wait for the call, it was fun debating with you.

 

[tieguy]

I don't know why you are so angry about all this.
UPS needed a wakeup call, and they got it.
Every company needs one now and then.

So let me be the devils advocate. Lets say the company disagrees with their wake call. Company feels they have treated their employees fairly. Is it now ok to run a full page ad listing the people we have fired and the reasons we did so? Maybe list a Klein in there fired for drinking on the job?

After all this is not a wake call its now a disagreement that your union took out into the public.

 

[tieguy]

No Island, this is America, and you have no more right to your opinion than anybody else.

I think you stepped over the edge on that one. This country supports the rights of all who want to live here and be americans. This country has never supported the rights of those who are citizens of other countries and live in other countries.

Keep it real bubble.

 

[tieguy]

"We don't know the details. I find it funny that your brothers talk about honoring the contract but don't see the loss of honor in taking the disagreements public." How long should we be patient with the company? Airline Mechanics 4years?

Mobile takes two to tango on contract negotiations. You have your opinion and I have mine as to who is at fault. I've seen some of the wild things the folks in the airlines ask for and I can see why those talks take so long.

 

[tieguy]

Hasn't Germanys' tounionized economy stabilized way before the US without the trillions of dollars in false stimulus and low interest rates?

Its possible Germany economic conditions might be a bit different then ours. I don't if you can really compare us in this area.

 

[klein]

I think you stepped over the edge on that one. This country supports the rights of all who want to live here and be americans. This country has never supported the rights of those who are citizens of other countries and live in other countries.

Keep it real bubble.

You keep it real Tie !
I'll be there next week.
And, I'll have the same legal rights as you, (if for example I get falshly accused and end up in jail, or many other rights, that are common under the human rights act. )

 

[Bubblehead]

No Island, this is America, and you have no more right to your opinion than anybody else.
You might argue that you have more credibility, to which I would not argue.
Again, sorry Klein.
Actually this site knows no national boundaries.
Our common thread is UPS.
I contend that the highlighted portion of your quoted post is your inherent weakness.

I think you stepped over the edge on that one. This country supports the rights of all who want to live here and be americans. This country has never supported the rights of those who are citizens of other countries and live in other countries.

Keep it real bubble.

Reread the whole post Tie.
Your taking one sentence out of context and spinning it.
Pretty sure Island1 is a citizen of the US though.
That is who I was replying to.
While your rereading notice how I expanded the arguement to include the fact that this site knows no national boundries.
The rights you refer to that we enjoy as Americans in the Constitution state that these are basic rights of man and are inallienable.
Obviously our Constitution has no standing in other countries but has served as a model to many since.
My underlying point in the whole post was that no one person has "more of a right to their opinion" than the next person.

 

[Omega man]

We will have to agee to disagree --I have already exlained the total driver wage and benefit package cost --100,000 is a good number -fact --sorry if you cannot understand that.

I could take this from alot of different angles ---but I will make this statement --based on a "private citizen" --not management nor union --because thats what I am ---As a private "Shareowner" of Ups stock --I can tell you that in the past nine years --YOUR --company has not lived up to my expectations on return of investment. YOUR company seems to be doing very little to improve volume and revenue levels ---cost control only goes so far . If I decide along with every other shareholder to "completely diversify" from Ups ---Do you realize ---The Company no longer exists !!!

Ha,Ha,Ha.......you couldn' be more out of touch with what is happening now! When did you retire.....1974?

 

[island1fox]

Island1fox,

I think we see the same problems but just from our own unique angle .

And I am sure if the world gave a damn about what we think and gave us a shot at fixing things, our solutions just might share some common ground.

But while we wait for the call, it was fun debating with you.

JimJimmyJames,
I could not agree with you more. As you have probably seen on this thread ----personal attacks began --instead of good facts --from both sides---I stupidly allowed myself to be dragged down into the mud with them. Never to old to learn a lesson ---just shower ---and move on to the next thread ---a little older and wiser ! Hope to have other debates with you !!

 

[Omega man]

Its good to be able to brag about having balls but I'm not sure it gains them a lot in the long run. You now have a pissing contest. There's not a lot of sincere conversation taking place when you have a pissing contest. Members of 177 will make mistakes and lose their jobs when they would have gotten a break. When you embarass a region manager and possibly the CEO during an economic slowdown you are really taking chances. Hope 177 is prepared for the possible fall out.

Sorry, again you are wrong. UPS deserves this and more. We have been enduring some of the most heinous criminal behavior known to man perpetrated and STARTED by management. Management has been lying, cheating, verbally abusing, dishonestly setting drivers up and unfairly discharging, timecard shaving and generally creating a hostile work environment for some time now.
The behavior by some managers has been directed from the district level and above.
This all started with telematics. Management didn’t like the outcome in some centers when they forced everyone to do the job by the book. Management made their bed, now they have to sleep in it!
Remember, management always sets the tone; hourly people only react to it.

 

[Signature Only]

Hell no on the excellent thing!!!!! I started in 1989 at 8.00 an hour(minimum wage was something like 4.75 an hour) and got full benefits 30 days later. It is unbelievable that 20 years later the starting rate is only .50 higher when you consider how much more expensive everything is now compared to 20 years ago. And no benefits for a year? I can't believe the union has not addressed the pay scale in the contract negotiations. With minimum wage at 7.75 an hour the part time jobs should be starting at at least 13.00. In twenty years the workload hasn't gotten any easier too which makes 8.50 an hour un comprehensible in my opinion. In a better economy UPS will find it wont be able to get anyone to walk thru the door for part time employment and will have to address the "killing yourself in the hub for minimum wage" issue.

I have to agree. I started on 1992 as a temporary peak season driver and was hired back for preload in April the following year. I spent 7 and 1/2 years part time. During that time I had to work another full-time job and I drove air/shuttle on Saturdays. 7 and 1/2 years without a single day off. I knew the financial rewards that came with being a full-time driver so I worked and waited.

Those days are gone, I doubt the economy will ever be the same. It would be difficult for someone to wait 7 to 10 years for a driver slot while working 2 or 3 other part-time jobs.

 

[Signature Only]

Jim,
Hate to burst your (housing) bubble ---the economy is in very small part where it is because of greed. It is mainly there because of Liberal social policies --from welfare, food stamps, free education---free healthcare up and including pushing banks to make risky homes to people that never should have been in homes ----People that want something for virtually nothing.
A REASONABLE return on a RISK investment of ones hard earned money is not greed. A stock price that is and has been under from where it was nine years ago is a serious concern. You seem not to live in the REAL --world ---Part time people that believe that their salaries should have increased along with the drivers rates are out of touch with their unions top negotiating team and reality.

No, I'm afraid you're mistaken. Reading articles in the WSJ, recent books and documentaries (Frontline, NPR, etc) the main problem was greed. If every single person that had a mortgage defaulted it would have been a minor hiccup in the world financial markets. It started with the Chinese buying US Treasury Issues to facilitate the expansion of their exports. By snapping up this debt they kept the dollar high and the yen low making their exports cheaper and providing employment and growth for their citizens. Thus creating a huge US market for their products. And with this demand for issues the US felt confident to keep spending. As the wealth (government spending) worked its way through our economic house, others saw a way to get even richer by creating exotic financial investments. Because by then there was a push by government to increase home ownership. The reluctance of banks to lend gave way to a free for all as bankers and brokers packaged the mortgages and resold them as "solid government backed investments". No one ever doubted that the Feds would back Freddie and Fannie if something went wrong. Everyone saw huge profits being made and jumped in. Housing wasn't the only hot item. Shares of companies private and government owned in Asia and South America, most of them very risky, were packaged and sold to anyone who took the bait. And how could they resist with AAA ratings from Moody's and other agencies that were paid for with plentiful bribe money.

Even insurance issuers got in the act. AIG failed because they issued mortgage default insurance on the same mortgage every time it changed hands. By collecting full premiums on each policy, they made a lot of easy money and it was not uncommon to have up to 13 polices issued on a single mortgage. That meant if the current homeowner defaulted on, say a $100,000.0 mortgage, AIG was on the hook for 1.3 million dollars, nearly all of it to people that had long since sold their holdings because every one of them still held a valid default policy that AIG was obligated to honor. By 2002 AIG underlings complained that the company had over a 500 billion dollar exposure to a mortgage insurance market that was worth 50 billion.

Others complained too but so many payoffs, campaign contributions and bonuses were being paid that nobody listed. Add to that Alan Greenspan's
reassurance that all was well and the stage was set.

Keep in mind that the housing bubble was started by the restrictive growth policies of local and state governments that led to higher than normal housing prices in some areas of the US, then add the federal government's push to Freddie and Fannie and then to the banking industry to lend, in private industry's case this amounted to legal "blackmail"; but it really grew out of control when the banks themselves threw caution to the wind and decided to take full advantage of the huge secondary mortgage market because of the big demand created by the financial brokers. The more loans you made, the more you had to sell and there were plenty of buyers standing at the door with dollars in hand. Everybody went wild; construction firms struggled to build fast enough, buyers lined up, buying not for residence but for flipping, bankers loaded their mortgages with every fee imaginable to maximize profits and the secondary market was screaming for mortgages to buy.

Yet, even with all of this, the economic system could have rolled on without much trouble had it not been for the likes of AIG and others. Their actions had multiplied the risk many times. And others who saw so much money being made, refused to limit their exposure for fear of missing out and staked too much on the housing market. So when things started to deflate the effect was amplified. And it became so loud that it nearly shook the global financial system apart for by that time, many overseas investors had gotten in on the act.

Also don't forget the secondary mortgages taken out on many US homes. The push of cheap imports, plentiful money, the booming housing market, Greenspan's wisdom, all made homeowners comfortable taking on staggering debt levels to fund everything from business startup expenses to new cars, new furniture, remodels, vacations, clothes, you name it.

Yet even with all this, had every single homeowner defaulted on a mortgage deemed as substandard, the US economy would have been looking at a loss of no more than 200 to 250 billion dollars. And the entire housing boom default could have been absorbed without grinding the entire system to a near halt.

But greed changed the scale. And as in all human activity, once you change the scale, you change everything.