Procedure regarding co-worker passing out?

[Jackburton]

To clarify some things... he had eaten before work, no signs of any trouble that morning, and no history of any trouble in the time I have worked directly across from him. He is a hard worker but, it hadn't been that "bad" this morning. Also, the heat was not a factor. We were all in shorts and T-Shirts this morning but you really didn't want to walk outside wearing that. Felt good while working.
About the cracks on the sups... the main one making the "call" of what to do has been with the company for many - MANY - years. He is nearing retirement - been there that long. I just think a protocol needs to be implemented. Constant asking "is it break time?" and such as "what year is it" meant to me that he was in no shape to make the call of "don't call 911".

The culture of UPS breeds the fear of reporting accidents and keeping liabilities away from the company. Could the constant pressure of shifting blame to the employee had subconsciously been a factor in the sups and employee descions to not seek treatment? One can only wonder.

 

[TooTechie]

.....He said, "no" to 911 so unless he poses a direct danger to himself or others how can you justify forcing it upon him? I mentioned the call to the wife being smart.....it really was!

He asked what year it was and you think he had the capacity to decline treatment?

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

The culture of UPS breeds the fear of reporting accidents and keeping liabilities away from the company. Could the constant pressure of shifting blame to the employee had subconsciously been a factor in the sups and employee descion to not seek treatment? One can only wonder.

We had a driver a few years back (not the sharpest pencil in the box) but still a very hard worker! He came into work one day..not quite acting like himself, having a hard time getting the words out of his mouth. Do you know what my sup did? He took him for a drug test.... Meanwhile he ( the driver) was having a friendng stroke.!!!!! Thankgod he was o.k. but his driving career was over!!! Call 911 I dont give a crap what your Stup says.!! He isnt a doctor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[InsideUPS]

This morning we encountered a "situation" that has never been covered during any safety meeting. What is the proper procedure regarding a co-worker passing out? We had just been carrying on a conversation and both walked into our respective trucks. I heard another worker ask my friend if he was OK. I looked and saw him slumped down in his truck.
At first I thought he had simply hit his head on a box (you know those that stick out a bit too far and just takes you out on occasions) and he had to sit down. I stopped the belt and went to his aid. He was looking into space and not responding to anything I said. I told my coworker (the one who discovered him) to get a supervisor and call an ambulance. At that point the passed out worker said he was ok and to not call 911. When a sup arrived, he started asking questions about previous history. The guy then responded "once before - what year is it?". At that time I ONCE AGAIN suggested calling 911.

First - how dare them expect his wife to come pick him up and deliver him to the ER.
Second - what is the UPS protocol on getting 911 to a person in need?

After speaking today to an EMT friend and explaining what had happened - he said that 911 should have been called immediately! Prolonging the situation could have made his outcome even worse!
Not only am I disappointed in the way this was handled but, I am frustrated that we haven't been told or coached on how to react to a situation like this. As a safety co-chair and this was a fellow safety member - I WILL make sure this situation is NOT looked over! Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Interesting. We recently had a similar incident happen at our center. Two people were unloading a trailer when one of them collapsed to the floor and could not get up. The supervisor had the other unloader put his collapsed co-worker on a large steel package cart and wheel him out to his vehicle. The employee that collapsed in the trailer was placed into his vehicle and was sent home with NO assistance. THE MAJOR underlying issue in this case is that the collapsed employee has known "substance abuse" problems.

I warned UPS managment that if this employee collapses at work and is under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol....or OTHER medical conditions that can cause confusion, disorientation, etc., (such as from diabetes , stroke, etc. ) and is sent back home on his own recognizance.......that UPS WILL BE LIABLE for any accident, damage, or injury to that employee or to other parties involved in a potential accident. There are LAWYERS just waiting for this type of ignorance and irresponsibility on the part of wealthy corporations such as UPS.

In regard to your question about UPS protocol on these types of matters... - THERE IS NONE. WITHOUT HESITATION, I WOULD STRONGLY ADVISE YOU TO CALL 911 REGARDLESS of THE CONSEQUENCES. You will be protected by the "GOOD SAMARITAN LAW".... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Samaritan_law
DO NOT WAIT for UPS to make a good judgment call on what you should do... There are too many layers of management and too many people following the CYA principal of job survival to give you a quick and reasonable answer.

 

[TooTechie]

double post

 

[InsideUPS]

We had a driver a few years back (not the sharpest pencil in the box) but still a very hard worker! He came into work one day..not quite acting like himself, having a hard time getting the words out of his mouth. Do you know what my sup did? He took him for a drug test.... Meanwhile he ( the driver) was having a friendng stroke.!!!!! Thankgod he was o.k. but his driving career was over!!! Call 911 I dont give a crap what your Stup says.!! He isnt a doctor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is TOTAL BS... What the H-LL is wrong with UPS management????? I would file a lawsuit against that supervisor and UPS that same day if it were me or a member of my family.

 

[Benben]

He asked what year it was and you think he had the capacity to decline treatment?

He did decline it, thats what I am saying. Look, I am not saying you throw him somewhere out of the way and forget about him. I guarntee he had someone with him the entire time, thats just plain common sense. I knew as I was typing my response I'd get idiots like I've gotta-package-for-myself who will read the first and last line of a post and run off at the mouth about how superior their decesion making is, but some common sense in reviewing the situation needs to be used. I honestly believe that 90% of the population can spot an emergency situation and will call 911 when it presents itself. Its been engrained in our culture for decades.

DJKRE8R- Don't second guess yourself, I have no doubt if it had truely been an emergency you would not have hesitated to call 911. You would have noticed the labored breathing or short shallow breaths, veins distended as the heart raced, pronounced unexplained sweating, the disconected skeletal movements. You would have looked into his eyes and seen a blown pupil, or nystagmus that would not have been there before. Removing the patient from the enviroment and observing him was the prudent action from what I can tell. Don't sell yourself short, you did well. Getting someone who can make medical decisions for him involved was smart. This was a medical event. And it was so difficult the doctors at the ER could not figure it out even after running a battery of tests in a very controlled enviroment.

If altered mental process' warrented a 911 call everytime, we'd never have a single truck dispatched from any UPS center EVER! I know what you felt, I have been through it more than once. DO NOT SECOND GUESS YOURSELF!

"This is TOTAL BS... What the H-LL is wrong with UPS management????? I would file a lawsuit against that supervisor and UPS that same day if it were me or a member of my family."

And you'd do it by yourself because every "Dewy-Cheat'em-and-How" Law firm would laugh your ass right out of the office.

 

[InsideUPS]

Sounds like workers comp

I agree anonymous..... The supervisor in charge of this matter should file a workers compensation claim for losing his friggin brains sometime during his "brown-blood" transfusion....

 

[InsideUPS]

If altered mental process' warrented a 911 call everytime, we'd never have a single truck dispatched from any UPS center EVER! I know what you felt, I have been through it more than once. It drove me to get my EMT license at night at a local JUCO while taking 26 hours that trimester getting my doctorate.

Benben.... may I ask what field of study your "doctorate" is in and what your dissertation entails?

 

[Dracula]

This is my opinion....OPINION!!!

Patient was not unconscious therefore it was not an imediate emergency. No signs of obvious trauma, not probable heat related (you didn't mention heat so this is an assumption on my part), no medical alert braclets/necklace. No dificulty breathing, no racing pulse....I would abide by his wishes and not call 911 right away. Contacting wife was a smart thing to do trying to get more infomation. Removing him from the area and getting him somewhere he could rest was the correct thing to do, IMO. This appears to be a medical issue.

EMT company does not make $$$ unless they take someone somewhere. Therefore, its expected that every call equals a ride. Just because they put him on a stretcher really does not mean delaying the 911 was a horrible call. The ER checking him out with all the diagnostic tools they have available and making the determination to send him home untill he had a second "episode" is the single most telling thing about what happened!

I am the Safety Co-Chair for my work group also and I promise you I have an extensive medical background. From what you have told us I do not think it could have been handled much better. You or others can try and vilify the participants but for what? I can't see anything wrong being done from what you have told us and everything that was done was done correctly.

I know in hind sight you feel 911 should have been called right away but the person was not unconscious. With that being said just being the devil's advocate here.....He said, "no" to 911 so unless he poses a direct danger to himself or others how can you justify forcing it upon him? I mentioned the call to the wife being smart.....it really was!

It's guys like this that indicate why so many of our safety committees are the joke that they are. Everything he says goes against everything you hear medical professionals say to do in a situation like this. Have you ever heard of a concussion? The fact that you claim to be an EMT is frightening, and probably quite normal in the state of Kansas, with Brownback as your Governor. Calling 911 is bad for business, and just makes our taxes go up. Small wonder you are a safety co-chair.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

This is my opinion....OPINION!!!

Are you a M.D.? I have stayed at the Holiday-Inn Express as well.

 

[wilberforce15]

I will gladly say that if I have a co-worker in such a condition as described in the first post, I will call 911 immediately without asking permission from anyone - management, hourly, PT, FT, Safety Rep, or Scott Davis himself.

If I think someone may be in need of immediate medical attention, my judgment is the only one that matters. I'm not going to ask around for other people who are also not doctors.

I dare UPS to attempt any response against me whatsoever for calling 911 when I'm afraid for the condition of a co-worker or myself. I would sue for 7 figures just because such callousness to fellow human beings ought to be criminal.

 

[Jackburton]

It's guys like this that indicate why so many of our safety committees are the joke that they are. Everything he says goes against everything you hear medical professionals say to do in a situation like this. Have you ever heard of a concussion? The fact that you claim to be an EMT is frightening, and probably quite normal in the state of Kansas, with Brownback as your Governor. Calling 911 is bad for business, and just makes our taxes go up. Small wonder you are a safety co-chair.

The only guys that go on the safety commitee around here are people who put their letters in or guys who want days off in return for doing safety stuff off the clock. The last 4 FT sups had been promoted from guys on the safety commitee, what's better is 3 of the 4 had accidents or workmans comp injuries in the last year alone. Again, you can't make this stuff up.

 

[dilligaf]

friend..your Sup...if anyone has an emergency dont wait 4 one of those brainless A-holes 2 call 911 you do it.!!!!! They cant dispatch your route the correct way...now they are a freakin doctor?. I hope your friend is O.K... We will all pray for him and your supervisor too!!!!!!!!!!

Personally, I would have made the 911 call before I even called for a sup.

 

[outta hours]

A medical emergency or situation needs to be addressed by MEDICAL professionals ASAP. Always call 911. Supervisors and coworkers are not trained medical professionals. And should not attempt to diagnose, treat, or speculate on someone's condition.
If an ambulance is summoned to UPS the incident is required to be reported to OSHA immediately. If a supervisor or coworker transports someone in a personal vehicle it is not required to be reported. This should not be a factor when someone is injured or ill. But sadly often times it is. Don't risk it. Call 911.

 

[undies]

How dare you want to call 911 and give UPS an on the job injury/illness to take away from their perfect record. This guy should have sucked it up and drove his ass to the emergency room and apologized for messing with the productivity of the sort!

 

[Covemastah]

Call 911 first no question,,screw their numbers !! as far as the Safety Committee, they are like the Vichy French ,German collaborators.... Don't trust them !!

 

[TearsInRain]

Should UPS be required to provide proper preparation? My EMT friend said they would be more than happy to come out and provide us with simple first aid training and some proper course of actions.

more or less worthless unless you keep the proper equipment stocked, and stay up to practice (not likely)

getting CPR qualified is a good idea though

 

[TearsInRain]

Patient was not unconscious therefore it was not an imediate emergency.

hey Benben, im real happy for you, and imma let you finish, but thats stupid as ****

No signs of obvious trauma, not probable heat related (you didn't mention heat so this is an assumption on my part), no medical alert braclets/necklace. No dificulty breathing, no racing pulse....I would abide by his wishes and not call 911 right away. Contacting wife was a smart thing to do trying to get more infomation. Removing him from the area and getting him somewhere he could rest was the correct thing to do, IMO. This appears to be a medical issue.

EMT company does not make $$$ unless they take someone somewhere. Therefore, its expected that every call equals a ride.

transport to the hospital is the first instinct of an EMT because of the massive liability involved if that person dies because they didn't get to the hospital fast enough, it has nothing to do with whatever profit motivation you're insinuating

Just because they put him on a stretcher really does not mean delaying the 911 was a horrible call. The ER checking him out with all the diagnostic tools they have available and making the determination to send him home until he had a second "episode" is the single most telling thing about what happened!

yes, it's the sign of a terribly run ER

I am the Safety Co-Chair for my work group also and I promise you I have an extensive medical background. From what you have told us I do not think it could have been handled much better. You or others can try and vilify the participants but for what? I can't see anything wrong being done from what you have told us and everything that was done was done correctly.

your medical background is complete **** if you wouldn't recommend a transport for a patient that collapsed, was dizzy, and confused about where he was or what day it is

I know in hind sight you feel 911 should have been called right away but the person was not unconscious. With that being said just being the devil's advocate here.....He said, "no" to 911 so unless he poses a direct danger to himself or others how can you justify forcing it upon him? I mentioned the call to the wife being smart.....it really was!

 

[frivolous petty small.]

This is my opinion....OPINION!!!

Patient was not unconscious therefore it was not an imediate emergency. No signs of obvious trauma, not probable heat related (you didn't mention heat so this is an assumption on my part), no medical alert braclets/necklace. No dificulty breathing, no racing pulse....I would abide by his wishes and not call 911 right away. Contacting wife was a smart thing to do trying to get more infomation. Removing him from the area and getting him somewhere he could rest was the correct thing to do, IMO. This appears to be a medical issue.

EMT company does not make $$$ unless they take someone somewhere. Therefore, its expected that every call equals a ride. Just because they put him on a stretcher really does not mean delaying the 911 was a horrible call. The ER checking him out with all the diagnostic tools they have available and making the determination to send him home untill he had a second "episode" is the single most telling thing about what happened!

I am the Safety Co-Chair for my work group also and I promise you I have an extensive medical background. From what you have told us I do not think it could have been handled much better. You or others can try and vilify the participants but for what? I can't see anything wrong being done from what you have told us and everything that was done was done correctly.

I know in hind sight you feel 911 should have been called right away but the person was not unconscious. With that being said just being the devil's advocate here.....He said, "no" to 911 so unless he poses a direct danger to himself or others how can you justify forcing it upon him? I mentioned the call to the wife being smart.....it really was!

Dear Dr. House
Your opinion is ****ty.