710 Votes No - 3 to 1 margin

[Stonefish]

It's always been hard to sell yesterdays ice water.

Have you tried

 

[babboo25]

Is it possible for the IBT to take over any of these Seperate contracts like 710 and 705? I say no way, trying to squash rumors in our building. Thanks



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[Brownslave688]

Is it possible for the IBT to take over any of these Seperate contracts like 710 and 705? I say no way, trying to squash rumors in our building. Thanks



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What do you mean take over? Roll them into the national?

Not a chance. With 705 and 710 the national would of went down in flames this year.

 

[babboo25]

Yes, take them over, our steward was saying this, but I'm assuming he was told to sell this contract. Scaring people is a good way but clearly didn't work.

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[Inthegame]

Not to mention some pension reform. We are currently contributing 401.00 per FT employee per week into this weak pension plan. Not to be overlooked is that they have raised the contributions 30% by the end of this contract to 601.00 per week. That absurd amount comes to 31,252.00 per year for every FT employee. If you retire with a 25 yr pension that's 33,600.00 less (of course) taxes and health care premiums. Hardly a return on our investment for all of the hard work we do. If they can't invest it properly, maybe we need to take a chunk of that money and put it in our 401k. We have worked hard and have the right to retire. Back in 90, we contributed 93.00 per week per FT for a total of 4836.00 per year. And in in 2018 it will be 31,252.00 with only 1 small increase. Whats wrong with this picture

Your comprehension skills need attention. You're adding the entire negotiated benefit amount, $40 per week per year, to pension. At least half of that is going to H&W.
Pensions pay out for lifetimes. Your own inaccurate numbers should give you some sense of the value of a pooled risk pension vs a total individual risk 401. In the early 90's your negotiated pension contribution was less than $5000 per year, that now pays $33k per year for your lifetime (with a survivor lifetime benefit).

 

[Inthegame]

The reason why there is a pension cap and that we haven't received a pension increase in a decade is that every pension is under funded. Under new laws every pension has to be 100% funded. That means they can't rely on new employees to pay your pension, the money has to already be in the fund when you retire. The number of Teamsters has gone down significantly over the last ten years. I blame some of it on organizing. The union has to do a better job of organizing new drivers. If Fed Ex was organized it would take care of all our pension problems.
The other problem is that the National contract passed so easily. I'm insulted by the concessions in this proposal and disappointed in whoever voted yes because they allowed this contract to pass. Once National passes it limits what other locals can do to make changes.

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Every pension is not under funded and no law exists requiring 100% funding. The PPA requires plans to be 80% funded or submit Funding Improvement Plans to get to 80%. Plans not at 80% need to show contractual future funding to improve benefits.
Organizing FedEx would not impact any pensions unless the CBA with FedEx would contain participation agreements.

 

[Inthegame]

Excellent points, alot of $ being put out by UPS towards our pension but nobody wants to talk about where it's going. Where it's not coming is back to the employees. Teamster representatives seemed rather smug about any talk about pension at last several meetings. Even going so far as saying, maybe next contract we can talk about it. Well I guess the dues paying members are saying, We need to talk about it NOW!

Tens of thousands of retired Teamsters are getting benefit checks every month from Teamster Pension Plans. That's where some of it is going while most of it is being invested for future retirees, yourself included. National Master Art 34 contains the negotiated increase to Pension. The NMA is done. Too late to talk about it NOW!

 

[Jones]

Every pension is not under funded and no law exists requiring 100% funding. The PPA requires plans to be 80% funded or submit Funding Improvement Plans to get to 80%. Plans not at 80% need to show contractual future funding to improve benefits.
Organizing FedEx would not impact any pensions unless the CBA with FedEx would contain participation agreements.

You sure about that? I thought when the PPA was passed in 2006 that it required single employer DB plans to be at 100% funding by 2011.

 

[Inthegame]

You sure about that? I thought when the PPA was passed in 2006 that it required single employer DB plans to be at 100% funding by 2011.

You are correct. Single employer plans were required to "get" to a position that credit balance and funding percentage equaled a formula that appears at 100%, with adjustable assumption rates and amortization schedules allowing these numbers.
I was addressing the OP whom I believed was addressing the L710 multi employer plan that doesn't fall under that criteria.

 

[UPS Preloader]

Is it possible for the IBT to take over any of these Seperate contracts like 710 and 705? I say no way, trying to squash rumors in our building. Thanks



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I believe they would have to reopen the master to do this and I don't see that happening.

 

[Booblebrown]

Hey "Inthegame" Well just for the sake of argument lets say half of that 40.00 does go to H/W. At the end of the contract 501.00 per week per full time employee will be going into the pension. That is 26,000 per year per full timer into the pension which will pay 33,600 a year for a 25 year pension. In 1990 4800.00 per week per full timer paid 30,000 a year for a 25 year pension. You do the math. If your financial adviser gave you that kind of return you would probably fire him. Ohh and don't forget to subtract at least 300.00 per month for yur retiree health care. Better plan on working until were 65

 

[Inthegame]

Hey "Inthegame" Well just for the sake of argument lets say half of that 40.00 does go to H/W. At the end of the contract 501.00 per week per full time employee will be going into the pension.

Maybe, as the last years will be allocated to H&W first and the remainder to Pension. It's right "from the book" as you stated in a prior post.

In 1990 4800.00 per week per full timer paid 30,000 a year for a 25 year pension.

$4800 per week??? Check your numbers on your 1990 25 yr pension.

Ohh and don't forget to subtract at least 300.00 per month for yur retiree health care. Better plan on working until were 65

Your insurance costs have nothing to do with Pension performance.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

[quote="Booblebrown, post: 1280901, member: 52205 ]Hey "Inthegame" Well just for the sake of argument lets say half of that 40.00 does go to H/W. At the end of the contract 501.00 per week per full time employee will be going into the pension. That is 26,000 per year per full timer into the pension which will pay 33,600 a year for a 25 year pension. In 1990 4800.00 per week per full timer paid 30,000 a year for a 25 year pension. You do the math. If your financial adviser gave you that kind of return you would probably fire him. Ohh and don't forget to subtract at least 300.00 per month for yur retiree health care. Better plan on working until were 65[/quote]
I agree with part of your math. The only problem Is their is not enough...old money...to pay the current retirees! Plus UPS, doesnt replace retired full timers...or atleast they stall it, as long as possible. So more money going out...and less going in!...jmho

 

[Brown Dog]

Tens of thousands of retired Teamsters are getting benefit checks every month from Teamster Pension Plans. That's where some of it is going while most of it is being invested for future retirees, yourself included. National Master Art 34 contains the negotiated increase to Pension. The NMA is done. Too late to talk about it NOW!

I'm 710, so NOW is the time

 

[O/C]

[quote="Booblebrown, post: 1280901, member: 52205 ]Hey "Inthegame" Well just for the sake of argument lets say half of that 40.00 does go to H/W. At the end of the contract 501.00 per week per full time employee will be going into the pension. That is 26,000 per year per full timer into the pension which will pay 33,600 a year for a 25 year pension. In 1990 4800.00 per week per full timer paid 30,000 a year for a 25 year pension. You do the math. If your financial adviser gave you that kind of return you would probably fire him. Ohh and don't forget to subtract at least 300.00 per month for yur retiree health care. Better plan on working until were 65

Please consider that the Union will be paying for the current and future retiree's Health and Welfare benefits not the company with this contract. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that any chance of an early retirement before the age of 62 or over would not be to their best interest. So work smart not fast it is going to be a long race.

 

[oldupsman]

Please consider that the Union will be paying for the current and future retiree's Health and Welfare benefits not the company with this contract. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that any chance of an early retirement before the age of 62 or over would not be to their best interest. So work smart not fast it is going to be a long race.

Oh you might be able to retire at 55 with your health care but it's going to cost you.
Big time. So big time most guys won't be able to afford it anyway.

 

[Booblebrown]

Hey "Inthegame" Sorry about that figure,That was to say in 1990, 4800.00 per year per FT would pay you 2500.00 per month or 30,000.00 a year after 25 years of service. And at the end of this contract 26,052.00 per year per FT would pay you 2800.00 per month or 33,600.00a year after 25 years of service. I also get the point that the health care costs have nothing to do with pension performance but when pension performance is miserable at best and health care goes up, it changes our ability to retire. The union is not to blame for health care costs but they are for poor pension returns. One minimal raise in the last 25 plus years. I know you are smart enough to figure out that this is a terrible rate of return on your investment. And if you want to keep arguing that its good you can live in that cave. Are your intentions to keep allowing that pension allocation to continue to rise for the next 25 years with another big 300.00 raise in 10 or 12 years?

 

[Booblebrown]

[quote="Booblebrown, post: 1280901, member: 52205 ]Hey "Inthegame" Well just for the sake of argument lets say half of that 40.00 does go to H/W. At the end of the contract 501.00 per week per full time employee will be going into the pension. That is 26,000 per year per full timer into the pension which will pay 33,600 a year for a 25 year pension. In 1990 4800.00 per week per full timer paid 30,000 a year for a 25 year pension. You do the math. If your financial adviser gave you that kind of return you would probably fire him. Ohh and don't forget to subtract at least 300.00 per month for yur retiree health care. Better plan on working until were 65

I agree with part of your math. The only problem Is their is not enough...old money...to pay the current retirees! Plus UPS, doesnt replace retired full timers...or atleast they stall it, as long as possible. So more money going out...and less going in!...jmho[/qu

I agree that there are probably not as many of us as there once was but don't forget to take into account every FT employee that quits or get fired before he is vested. All that money stays in the kitty. And all the guys that have died before they collected a dime. If there is more money going out than coming in then that again sounds like a mismanaged fund. We pay people ALOT of money to make good decisions for OUR FUTURE and give them a great deal of money to do so with. It sure isn't right or fair for us to have to play catch up on our time. We shouldn't be in this position.

 

[Inthegame]

Hey "Inthegame" Sorry about that figure,That was to say in 1990, 4800.00 per year per FT would pay you 2500.00 per month or 30,000.00 a year after 25 years of service. And at the end of this contract 26,052.00 per year per FT would pay you 2800.00 per month or 33,600.00a year after 25 years of service. I also get the point that the health care costs have nothing to do with pension performance but when pension performance is miserable at best and health care goes up, it changes our ability to retire. The union is not to blame for health care costs but they are for poor pension returns. One minimal raise in the last 25 plus years. I know you are smart enough to figure out that this is a terrible rate of return on your investment. And if you want to keep arguing that its good you can live in that cave. Are your intentions to keep allowing that pension allocation to continue to rise for the next 25 years with another big 300.00 raise in 10 or 12 years?

I'm not familar with L710's 25 yr pension benefit in 1990. Most plans did not offer a 25 yr service pension until after 1997. L710 would have had to have a $100 accrual to pay the amount you've posted, which I doubt. The 25, 30 and 35 yr service pensions (any age and out) didn't become common until after '97 which caused a major deterent to benefit increases since that time as most plans were created with an age 65 retirement target.
You're comparing two different types of retirement plans that are very different animals. Most people learned a lesson when '08 happened and 401's lost 30-40%. Pensions lost money too but few failed to make obligatory benefit payments. If you retired in '07 and lived on a 401, you were friend'ed and went back to work, while pensioners never missed a beat.
The Union has negotiated on behalf of the group, not the individual, contributions to pensions. They also negotiated on your behalf an opportunity to participate in a 401. Do both.

 

[rod]

Excellent points, alot of $ being put out by UPS towards our pension but nobody wants to talk about where it's going. Where it's not coming is back to the employees. Teamster representatives seemed rather smug about any talk about pension at last several meetings. Even going so far as saying, maybe next contract we can talk about it. Well I guess the dues paying members are saying, We need to talk about it NOW!

I have to disagree with you. As of 2/1/2014 I have received $456,000 in pension payments. Thank you Teamsters.