Got hurt a month ago now it's bad

[35years]

1. Me: "Hey man you
just ran that stop sign(on the yard) at 30 mph(with a set of doubles) and by the way, you're not wearing
a safety vest and not using your flashers and oh talking on a cell phone on the yard is prohibited.
Him: "friend@%k you. Why you disrespecting me?" 2. Meto Safety Committee Co-chair/Union Steward)
"Just saw a driver run a stop sign at 30 mph with a set of doubles not wearing a safety vest or using flashers while talking on his cell phone". Him: "You can't call out a fellow Union member. That's a mgt.
job". 3. Meto mgr) "Just saw(see above)....". Him: "Huh". And that's it-day after day after day after year after decade. Hyperbole? No, as real as it gets. This is an in-house problem solvable by

You are bitching because a Union Steward told you not to rat out a fellow driver?

No safety committee needs RATS!

 

[quad decade guy]

You are bitching because a Union Steward told you not to rat out a fellow driver?

No safety committee needs RATS!

OMG! YOU and BUG are so jaded, that you have no grasp on reality. The point of the post was to

illustrate that nothing is getting done about anything.

I'm curious-what do you think the safety committee is for?

I'm curious-what do you do or say if you observe a "fellow Union member" driving recklessly on the yard? Do you just wave hello? Hope he doesn't kill someone(it's happened)? Keep on talking on your cell phone in the yard?

Unfortunately, UPS is filled with this stupidly dangerous mindset. Would you really rather have innocent people killed than say something to anyone(perp,Union,Mgt)?

I'm curious-do you think this type of behavior is ok? We have stupidly obstinate co workers that are
stupidly obstinate just to be stupidly obstinate. Why? Pray you are not one of their victims.

 

[542thruNthru]

You bring up the behavior with managment. You do not tell the manager who it was.

Managements job is to correct behaviors not the safe committee. Their jobs are to educate.

You want to correct behavior and discipline. Then become a manager.

 

[35years]

OMG!
I'm curious-what do you think the safety committee is for? .

Put it all together...
1. You see that nothing gets done even though we have a safety committee.
2. We are by far the company with the most OSHA reportable injuries.
3.You know that management hides injuries and accidents.
4 You also know that UPS continues to risk employees' health and safety by working delivery drivers until 11 p.m., at peak and in 150 degree trucks in the summer by choice.

So what do I think the safety committee is for???...

All show.
Perhaps to lower insurance costs.
Perhaps to keep safety issues from becoming contract issues.
If it costs more to fix a safety issue than leave it be guess what happens?

So after over 3 decades of being told one thing on safety rides and another on production rides; being told to dump leaking haz mats down a storm sewer; seeing managers pressure doctors to rush drivers back after injury; pushing drivers to violate their injury restrictions; denying work comp claims for no reason etc. etc....

I AM JADED, WITH GOOD REASON.

So no, I don't have any expectation that the safety committee will have any significant impact. I have seen how management trys to get committee members to "observe" specific drivers so they can put pressure on them. And I am not afraid to call a rat a rat.

 

[Integrity]

OMG! YOU and BUG are so jaded, that you have no grasp on reality. The point of the post was to

illustrate that nothing is getting done about anything.

I'm curious-what do you think the safety committee is for?

I'm curious-what do you do or say if you observe a "fellow Union member" driving recklessly on the yard? Do you just wave hello? Hope he doesn't kill someone(it's happened)? Keep on talking on your cell phone in the yard?

Unfortunately, UPS is filled with this stupidly dangerous mindset. Would you really rather have innocent people killed than say something to anyone(perp,Union,Mgt)?

I'm curious-do you think this type of behavior is ok? We have stupidly obstinate co workers that are
stupidly obstinate just to be stupidly obstinate. Why? Pray you are not one of their victims.

Management failure to enforce and correct safety violations in the absence of an injuries or safety evaluations or audits is a serious workplace safety hazard.

This can be reported and corrected without “ratting”.

If your Safety Committee or the Union can’t handle correcting this recognized hazard then a formal complaint to OSHA is definitely in order.

 

[Integrity]

Put it all together...
1. You see that nothing gets done even though we have a safety committee.
2. We are by far the company with the most OSHA reportable injuries.
3.You know that management hides injuries and accidents.
4 You also know that UPS continues to risk employees' health and safety by working delivery drivers until 11 p.m., at peak and in 150 degree trucks in the summer by choice.

So what do I think the safety committee is for???...

All show.
Perhaps to lower insurance costs.
Perhaps to keep safety issues from becoming contract issues.
If it costs more to fix a safety issue than leave it be guess what happens?

So after over 3 decades of being told one thing on safety rides and another on production rides; being told to dump leaking haz mats down a storm sewer; seeing managers pressure doctors to rush drivers back after injury; pushing drivers to violate their injury restrictions; denying work comp claims for no reason etc. etc....

I AM JADED, WITH GOOD REASON.

So no, I don't have any expectation that the safety committee will have any significant impact. I have seen how management trys to get committee members to "observe" specific drivers so they can put pressure on them. And I am not afraid to call a rat a rat.

I can relate to what you have observed but I have found this simple process very effective.

This process has not made me very popular to my coworkers, management or hourly, but I have had some results.

I believe the first step is specific recognized hazards should be reported to the safety committee.

If the safety committee doesn’t satisfy the safety issue then I believe the specific recognized hazard should be filed as an Article 18 Grievance.

If the Article 18 Grievance doesn’t satisfy the safety issue then I believe the specific recognized hazard should be reported to OSHA through a formal OSHA complaint.

 

[quad decade guy]

You bring up the behavior with managment. You do not tell the manager who it was.

Managements job is to correct behaviors not the safe committee. Their jobs are to educate.

You want to correct behavior and discipline. Then become a manager.

Since you really have no idea how I conduct myself in these situations, I will explain.

I ALWAYS try to make contact with the person of interest first, ALWAYS, if possible. Depending on

the reaction(sometimes positive, mostly hostile) then step 2. I'll contact the Safety Co-Chair/Union

Steward(we have two but one is so worthless we don't speak). If it's a in-house driver I'll reference him

by name and we discuss. Step 3 can go many ways. Depending on how stupidly dangerous the

situation is, the discussion can be generic or I stand there until we walk out together and observe.

Example: We had an out of town Feeder driver that would stand on the cab catwalk(outside the cab)

and release the brakes to let the coupled rig move away from the dock to close the rear door of the

trailer . This is stupidly dangerous. You bet I mentioned this to EVERYONE. BTW, driver was eventually

fired for accidents(later). See? We won't agree about some things. I have no interest in disciplinary

action of anyone. PERIOD. But, I will not standby while innocent co-workers(or myself) are exposed

to stupidly dangerous behavior. Here's one more: Every night, I would wait inside the building for my

trailer to finish loading. I observed a part timer surfing the upper belts-again and again for several

nights. This is stupidly dangerous. I could go on and on.

I'm curious-say you observe a toddler moving towards a swimming pool, do you just turn away and drink your beer because it's the

parents job? Obtuse and idiotic.

 

[quad decade guy]

Put it all together...
1. You see that nothing gets done even though we have a safety committee.
2. We are by far the company with the most OSHA reportable injuries.
3.You know that management hides injuries and accidents.
4 You also know that UPS continues to risk employees' health and safety by working delivery drivers until 11 p.m., at peak and in 150 degree trucks in the summer by choice.

So what do I think the safety committee is for???...

All show.
Perhaps to lower insurance costs.
Perhaps to keep safety issues from becoming contract issues.
If it costs more to fix a safety issue than leave it be guess what happens?

So after over 3 decades of being told one thing on safety rides and another on production rides; being told to dump leaking haz mats down a storm sewer; seeing managers pressure doctors to rush drivers back after injury; pushing drivers to violate their injury restrictions; denying work comp claims for no reason etc. etc....

I AM JADED, WITH GOOD REASON.

So no, I don't have any expectation that the safety committee will have any significant impact. I have seen how management trys to get committee members to "observe" specific drivers so they can put pressure on them. And I am not afraid to call a rat a rat.

You may be surprised.......I agree with this statement without reservation/exception. Bravo!

But But But, I will continue to work through one of the few processes we have. At least the minutes

are recorded as well as a concerns log. Paper trails are critical. Tell all of this directly to ANY Mgt.

type. Especially Safety types....in big meetings. And when the fatality occurs, it's all there. Jaded?

Me too.

 

[Integrity]

Since you really have no idea how I conduct myself in these situations, I will explain.

I ALWAYS try to make contact with the person of interest first, ALWAYS, if possible. Depending on

the reaction(sometimes positive, mostly hostile) then step 2. I'll contact the Safety Co-Chair/Union

Steward(we have two but one is so worthless we don't speak). If it's a in-house driver I'll reference him

by name and we discuss. Step 3 can go many ways. Depending on how stupidly dangerous the

situation is, the discussion can be generic or I stand there until we walk out together and observe.

Example: We had an out of town Feeder driver that would stand on the cab catwalk(outside the cab)

and release the brakes to let the coupled rig move away from the dock to close the rear door of the

trailer . This is stupidly dangerous. You bet I mentioned this to EVERYONE. BTW, driver was eventually

fired for accidents(later). See? We won't agree about some things. I have no interest in disciplinary

action of anyone. PERIOD. But, I will not standby while innocent co-workers(or myself) are exposed

to stupidly dangerous behavior. Here's one more: Every night, I would wait inside the building for my

trailer to finish loading. I observed a part timer surfing the upper belts-again and again for several

nights. This is stupidly dangerous. I could go on and on.

I'm curious-say you observe a toddler moving towards a swimming pool, do you just turn away and drink your beer because it's the

parents job? Obtuse and idiotic.

I understanding the reason for confronting the unsafe worker but I disagree with this and if I were asked I would advise against it.

In a normal functioning workplace with company, union and employees, that generally speaking, has a culture of good faith this might be ok. UPS? I think not.

This opinion is based upon experience with drinking this detrimental kool-aid resulting in serious close calls to a hostile environment and fists flying.

The company (that means the management) are responsible to provide a workplace free of recognized hazards period.

Each employee is responsible for following all safety training, policies, procedures and methods. If they don’t, through management enforcement, this failure should be corrected and if an employee refuses or is unable to correct through proper corrective measures (commonly called discipline) the employee should be fired. No question about it.

 

[Zowert]

This job can be dangerous, be it feeder or package. All it takes is losing your focus for a few seconds and it could be lights out. Simply crossing a street is hazardous, especially with all these electric cars that are tough to hear coming at you.

 

[quad decade guy]

I understanding the reason for confronting the unsafe worker but I disagree with this and if I were asked I would advise against it.

In a normal functioning workplace with company, union and employees, that generally speaking, has a culture of good faith this might be ok. UPS? I think not.

This opinion is based upon experience with drinking this detrimental kool-aid resulting in serious close calls to a hostile environment and fists flying.

The company (that means the management) are responsible to provide a workplace free of recognized hazards period.

Each employee is responsible for following all safety training, policies, procedures and methods. If they don’t, through management enforcement, this failure should be corrected and if an employee refuses or is unable to correct through proper corrective measures (commonly called discipline) the employee should be fired. No question about it.

Let's explore. "Normal"? What does this mean?

"detrimental kool-aid"? What does this mean?

This notion of operating in a vacuum(yours) has to be explained. I thought we all worked at the same

place. Do you know the term "peer". Or that we can only "hope" Mgt. prevents innocents from being

injured, maimed or killed. Or that an "Official Complaint to OSHA" is the only remedy.

Let's explore. Where does this "hostile environment" originate? "Fist flying" because a peer is engaged

with the concept of safety? How did we get to this place? This is a multi-directional intersection of

attitudes and discipline. Did you notice I did not say disciplinary action or confrontation.

Some call it changing hearts and minds. I do.

And this notion of the Union being an un-biased, innocent monolith is bewildering. Whose very actions

not only perpetuate but actually condone unsafe behavior.

 

[Integrity]

Let's explore. "Normal"? What does this mean?

"detrimental kool-aid"? What does this mean?

This notion of operating in a vacuum(yours) has to be explained. I thought we all worked at the same

place. Do you know the term "peer". Or that we can only "hope" Mgt. prevents innocents from being

injured, maimed or killed. Or that an "Official Complaint to OSHA" is the only remedy.

Let's explore. Where does this "hostile environment" originate? "Fist flying" because a peer is engaged

with the concept of safety? How did we get to this place? This is a multi-directional intersection of

attitudes and discipline. Did you notice I did not say disciplinary action or confrontation.

Some call it changing hearts and minds. I do.

And this notion of the Union being an un-biased, innocent monolith is bewildering. Whose very actions

not only perpetuate but actually condone unsafe behavior.

I gave you the steps that I take and recommend for any who may want to try them and are not afraid to take official action.

Don’t if you don’t want to or are afraid.

I described what I meant by normal within my post.

The idea that confronting your unsafe coworkers or peers is a good idea is the detrimental kool-aid that I am referring to in my post.

Actually filing the formal OSHA complaint is not described by me as the only remedy it the process it is actually number 3 of the 3 step process.

It is only the remedy when 1 and 2 fail to satisfy but it is a critical part of the process and must be done if 1 and 2 don’t work.

Over time #3 increases the success of 1 and 2.

Are you anti-Union?

Ever file a formal complaint with OSHA?

 

[Integrity]

This job can be dangerous, be it feeder or package. All it takes is losing your focus for a few seconds and it could be lights out. Simply crossing a street is hazardous, especially with all these electric cars that are tough to hear coming at you.

What is the specific safety issue you are referring to?

 

[542thruNthru]

Since you really have no idea how I conduct myself in these situations, I will explain.

I ALWAYS try to make contact with the person of interest first, ALWAYS, if possible. Depending on

the reaction(sometimes positive, mostly hostile) then step 2. I'll contact the Safety Co-Chair/Union

Steward(we have two but one is so worthless we don't speak). If it's a in-house driver I'll reference him

by name and we discuss. Step 3 can go many ways. Depending on how stupidly dangerous the

situation is, the discussion can be generic or I stand there until we walk out together and observe.

Example: We had an out of town Feeder driver that would stand on the cab catwalk(outside the cab)

and release the brakes to let the coupled rig move away from the dock to close the rear door of the

trailer . This is stupidly dangerous. You bet I mentioned this to EVERYONE. BTW, driver was eventually

fired for accidents(later). See? We won't agree about some things. I have no interest in disciplinary

action of anyone. PERIOD. But, I will not standby while innocent co-workers(or myself) are exposed

to stupidly dangerous behavior. Here's one more: Every night, I would wait inside the building for my

trailer to finish loading. I observed a part timer surfing the upper belts-again and again for several

nights. This is stupidly dangerous. I could go on and on.

I'm curious-say you observe a toddler moving towards a swimming pool, do you just turn away and drink your beer because it's the

parents job? Obtuse and idiotic.

I'll just leave this here for you...

Also your toddler analogy is horrible.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

I'll just leave this here for you...

Also your toddler analogy is horrible.

View attachment 261747

@542thruNthru


Posting contract language, that diminishes a members argument....

will get you placed on the "buffet eating, chicken wing lover" list.




Ask me how I know ?

 

[542thruNthru]

@542thruNthru


Posting contract language, that diminishes a members argument....

will get you placed on the "buffet eating, chicken wing lover" list.




Ask me how I know ?

I wish.

I love chicken wings!

 

[quad decade guy]

I'll just leave this here for you...

Also your toddler analogy is horrible.

View attachment 261747

That's all cool but when I watch someone nearly kill a co-worker, it doesn't have anything to do with the

Safety Committee Observations. It does diminish more than my argument. It also dimishes lives.

That language is a green light for fatalities. It Officially rubber stamps stupidly dangerous behavior.

Put it all together to quote a phrase.

What's the matter? Toddler thing hit close to home? That's what YOU are condoning.

I'm curious- Ever have someone you know(co-worker, neighbor even, see everyday, went to see in

the hospital for an unrelated surgery, took their family food gift certificates...that guy) killed at a UPS

facility for stupidly reckless behavior? You know horribly(your word), painful, slow death? Come on,

let's put a real face on this subject. Pray you never do.

You and BUG high fiving is disgusting.

 

[quad decade guy]

I gave you the steps that I take and recommend for any who may want to try them and are not afraid to take official action.

Don’t if you don’t want to or are afraid.

I described what I meant by normal within my post.

The idea that confronting your unsafe coworkers or peers is a good idea is the detrimental kool-aid that I am referring to in my post.

Actually filing the formal OSHA complaint is not described by me as the only remedy it the process it is actually number 3 of the 3 step process.

It is only the remedy when 1 and 2 fail to satisfy but it is a critical part of the process and must be done if 1 and 2 don’t work.

Over time #3 increases the success of 1 and 2.

Are you anti-Union?

Ever file a formal complaint with OSHA?

Anti-Union? No. Just pointing out how dangerous the Union is.

Formal complaint? No. Doesn't work. Obviously.

Your 3 step process does not work. Obviously....here we are.

Explain normal again in a real setting.

Kool-Aid thing.....not sure but why is preventing a fatality "detrimental"? I'm just a simple guy....

 

[542thruNthru]

That's all cool but when I watch someone nearly kill a co-worker, it doesn't have anything to do with the

Safety Committee Observations. It does diminish more than my argument. It also dimishes lives.

That language is a green light for fatalities. It Officially rubber stamps stupidly dangerous behavior.

Put it all together to quote a phrase.

What's the matter? Toddler thing hit close to home? That's what YOU are condoning.

I'm curious- Ever have someone you know(co-worker, neighbor even, see everyday, went to see in

the hospital for an unrelated surgery, took their family food gift certificates...that guy) killed at a UPS

facility for stupidly reckless behavior? You know horribly(your word), painful, slow death? Come on,

let's put a real face on this subject. Pray you never do.

You and BUG high fiving is disgusting.

Anti-Union? No. Just pointing out how dangerous the Union is.

Formal complaint? No. Doesn't work. Obviously.

Your 3 step process does not work. Obviously....here we are.

Explain normal again in a real setting.

Kool-Aid thing.....not sure but why is preventing a fatality "detrimental"? I'm just a simple guy....

 

[quad decade guy]

View attachment 261786



View attachment 261785

I'm sorry, got a point?