T
Is UPS really this bad to work for, or are people exaggerating??
- Thread starter johnbirshire
- Start date
tieguy
Banned
Good to hear . Reading that last post I was afraid you might be getting ready to end it all.
canon
Well-Known Member
On second thought... let me ask you. You say i'm trying to talk the good game... maybe I just don't know how to phrase my concerns. The "miserable life" you keep mentioning is only at work. Management is responsible for assigning my work. They admit the PAS has some serious flaws, and have known about it for almost 2 years. The flaws cost me time, management pesters me about overallow... now you tell me:
I'm not allowed to fix it myself, yet they won't fix it either. The ONLY solution you've provided is for me to ignore it... but management wont ignore the over-allow or the over nine-fives. Do you see the frustration?
In all honesty, putting aside the love letters we've exchanged recently, you come across as an apologist for the company when you suggest management is free from any guilt in this situation.
We already know you consider everything I've said to be lies. And anyone that agrees with me for their own center, you've said they are liars too. But *just for the sake of debate*, what is your response if what we're saying is true?
tieguy
Banned
Far be if for me to be the company apologist when I tell you to get a life. I don't believe there is any apology or excuse in what I have told you. I do see you have some infatuation with management that rules your life. It makes you sound bitter here. It makes you sound like you have a serious need to try to try to constantly belittle the one outspoken managment poster on this board. I have not defended the PAS system, nor your managment team nor anything in your building because I don't know any of them well enough to give you the detailed answer or apology you crave. I do however see that you have some serious hang ups that you need to get rid of our they will control your life.
canon
Well-Known Member
You dismiss everything I say as lies and an attack against management, yet you fail to assign an alternative route. When I talk about management it's not because of an infatuatoin... here's a news flash for you: I work for management, and this thread is about what that life is like. You claim you haven't defended the pas system, yet because it's management that wont fix it, you see it as an attack and come to their aide. All of a sudden you call me liar, and stupid for what amounts to nothing more than my frustration that they refuse to fix anything yet still hold me accountable for the deficiencies. This is echoed in other drivers on the board, so you accuse them of simply coming to my rescue. You say I lack integrity because I highlighted your animosity towards the drivers, but others see the same thing.
Not just in this thread, but elsewhere. I was going thru a thread called Great Spouses... without reason and unprovoked, your first post to an otherwise decent discussion was
I know you tried to dismiss it as humor. But your arrogance in dealing with people, your insults instead of discussion, your childishness instead of professionalism... I don't think people see you in the same light as you see yourself. In every sense of the word, and without any intention to insult, you've been a complete jerk whenever management is even brought up in a negative light. People are quick to say "he really does have some good things to say now and then". And I would agree... but to a point. As soon as something doesn't go your way, you resort to being condescending and arrogant.
I have yet to try to belittle you. I've tried to explain my positions in a mature way. I've refrained from stooping to your level of namecalling. I've held my tongue rather than return insults as you have engaged in. Yet, you still can't muster the intestinal fortitude it would take to meet me on a mature level of discussion.
Want to see me when I'm not being so nice? Here we go.
If there's any doubt of the employee experience at UPS, people seeing how you behave in these forums removes any remaining questions of what it's like when you're stuck with some craphole supervisor who is pissed off at the union.
I have a theory of why too. If my theory is right, you've been at UPS for a very long time and are nowhere near the altitude you think you should be on the corporate ladder. Rather than accept responsibility for your own failures tho, it's much easier to blame it on "all the whining, crying and crap from the hourlies" as you said above.
The problem with that is it doens't fit the corporate model of how higher management sees employees. To them, we're instruments used to gain profit. The "company" doesn't see things as union or non-union, only as profitable or not. Just like with the vehicles, buildings, or computers, the employees require maintenence. Happy trucks stay on the road, happy buildings keep the weather out, happy computers keep processing, and happy drivers deliver more. So rather than bring you up to the level you think you should be, they leave you down there where you're relatively harmless. Maybe it's because they think you'd jump at the chance to screw the drivers instead of what's best for the company. Either way, my experience with upper management on my routes is that the higher up they've climbed, the more appreciative they are of the drivers efforts.
But your nasty attitude conveys a bias, even if you think its coming across as humor. I kept telling you to look up the word "transparent" because people can see right thru you. You come across as one of those management people who blame the union for your numbers not being high enough therefore you haven't been promoted. I think the reason you took such a disproportionately aggressive response to the list of mgmt who got fired for falsifying documents is because the only thing separating you from them is being caught. If what i've said is true, you're probably in the position now that you'll be in when you retire... and you're bitter about it.
That's my theory based on how you present yourself in here. I highly recommend you stop insulting people, stop the name calling, and take a look at how you interact with the people that look to you as a "leader". Start acting like one or stop telling people you are one. Why does an hourly person need to tell you how to behave in public when you're trying to be "the one outspoken managment poster on this board" as you put it?
Answer that one and you might find out why you're not higher in the company.
Call me stupid again, call me anything you like. I really don't care. I plan to continue to address issues that interest me. If you want to participate on a more mature level, you're more than welcome in any conversation I'm in. If not, it's no surprise to me.
T
tasky
Guest
GREAT post. Too bad he'll dismiss it as another hourly bad-mouthing management. But nonetheless, you've hit the nail right on the head.
You're right, it would be great for a CEO to take a paycut when his employees do. The CEO of WestJet cut his annual salary to $1 when profits didn't meet expectations in 2003. And you are right, corporate culture at UPS sucks. But the tradeoff is that you get paid way above industry median. If you want to be treated nicely, go to FX and make $5/hr less.
You can't have it all. If you do, you're lucky.
satellitedriver
Moderator
Hey Canon,So there is a glimmer of hope. Que sera, sera! Whatever will be, will be. I like it so much, we should petition UPS to adopt it as a business slogan.
I can see Tieguy now, hugging and laughing with his drivers even tho they sucked on paper and corporate just had his butt for breakfast. "Forget the numbers! Live life and be happy!... Numbers Shmumbers! To heck with corporate! HAhahahahahah<breathe>ahhahahahah!"
Oh, wait a minute... this is one of those one way streets where hourly workers are supposed to make the best of a bad situation, but managment only deals with bad situations via discipline. Is that about right?
I don't think anyone is out there crying in their package car everyday. I remain respectful with my boss, I don't let my frustrations be visible to the customer, I try to do the best with what is given me and have been for almost two years concerning PAS. But at some point... IT'S FAIR TO ASK WHY CAN'T THEY FIX IT? Isn't it? If not now, what is the acceptable length of time? Three years, four? This isn't some new guy that just doesn't know how to load the truck, it's a system that suffers from not doing the follow up detailing which management originally acknowleged needed to happen post-implementation.
UPS is constantly trying to find ways to make or save money, no secret there. But if I ask to get something fixed which is obviously costing money at my center, I'm being negative? If anything, my persistance to fix PAS so that I can take more stops, lower my mileage, get off the clock sooner, and finally be able to achieve the numbers my supervisors demand should be viewed as a positive to the company. We're not talking about some pkgs not being on the right shelf or a loose load due to a new preloader... this is about drivers having to crisscross into each others areas for no apparent reason other than to run the miles up. And one or two stops out of whack on my route could easily cost me 40 minutes:
If *I* were doing something that was deliberately causing myself to stay out later than I needed to be, increasing my mileage, and messing the numbers up, how long do you think it would take management to fix that? It seems that when you need something fixed that could make your day better, you get the empty promise... but let it be time to levy discipline and management becomes Johnny-on-the-spot.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for finding the silver lining to every cloud. But in a thread asking about the working conditions at UPS, the rose colored glasses need to come off... or both sides need to be wearing them.
I did have a good day today.
I really enjoy your posts, but is the picture suppose to represent the "bad" roads you have to drive on. Or is it to represent the rural nature of your route?
If that is a bad location to deliver, then I need to start carrying a camera and sharing photos of my route.
Every day you come home safe and sound is a good day.
PAX
canon
Well-Known Member
They certainly aren't "bad", just rural. There are places that take 20 min to get to, then you have to turn around and return to trace. The identical number of stops on two different days can be profoundly different. There are driveways approaching a mile long, and rough enough to make it a 15 minute round trip because you have to drive so slow. Recently, on some packages I've seen "delivery area surcharge", and you begin to understand why when you see some of the remote locations we go. I used to think UPS was just finding more creative ways to leech money from the customer, but not after seeing places like this. We're definately not making any money on these routes, so i'd love to think I'm being as efficient as possible when it comes to fine tuning PAS (thus my adamant appeal to someone/anyone to demand it gets fixed).
I can't even "drive a little faster" or "run a little bit" to make up for time lost to improper looping. Tonight I was over 9.5... same number of stops as yesterday's "good" day. Yesterday I was around 149 miles, today a bit over 220. I do like my job... the part I don't like comes tomorrow if someone tells me I'm getting a warning letter for something only they can fix.
How do I make the best of that?
[rant] As for bringing a camera on route, I'm very careful about taking pics... only when on break and not of anything which could be harmful to our image. It's a hobby for me, something that fits nicely with driving around. Most often, it's just a mental note to come back out on the weekend. Other times the situation just sort of developes while I'm sitting there on break.
Some drivers have access to a gym on route and lift weights on their break. Some play basketball or maybe tennis. Others play golf or take a nap in the back of their truck. I always wonder what happens if they get a sports injury while on break or maybe oversleep. I like to think my occasional pic is less prone to creating a situation where I can't finish my day.
We all do whatever we can to make the best of the situation we're in, whether it's how we use our break or our ignored attempts to make UPS better. Maybe i fight too hard for what I know will help, but it's not out of negativity. I've spent way too many nights on break watching sunsets from the driver seat of a UPS truck while eating fried chicken from a gas station and 20 more stops in the back to be accused of not doing "enough". I envy the idea of being able to sit down to a normal dinner with family, at a normal time like so many management. Oddly enough, there are also times I feel sorry for them being stuck in an office or at the dinner table instead of witnessing life from my perspective.
For some reason, I just know management is going to eventually tell me I can't bring my camera to work anymore because someone used one to take a picture of something they shouldn't have. You might hear me complain then too. [/rant]
fedup15672
New Member
It's like this it can be good and it can be bad. I worked for them for 10 yrs and had to leave due to health problems (job related) iwas given 2 more yrs and i would be fully disabled. I can't say it was all bad, because i met and worked with alot of good hard working honest people. And alot of jerks too. There really is a reason thier health benifits are soooo good.
The only thing i can say is give it a try, if it doesn't work out leave. I will say this, thier turn over rate is astronomical. Any question you might have i'll be gald to answer for you if i can.
The only thing i can say is give it a try, if it doesn't work out leave. I will say this, thier turn over rate is astronomical. Any question you might have i'll be gald to answer for you if i can.
trickpony1
Well-Known Member
Since your health problems were "job-related", I'm sure the company made good on your retirement and you are living happily ever after? 
steakmaker
ride like you stole it
Hi everyone! Just joined today.Retired with almost 32yrs from Syracuse Feeders 10/05,finally getting used to sleeping nights.Something to think about if you're ever out on Comp.You only get pension contributions for ONE month,If you're out for say,seven months,you LOOSE 6 MONTHS of contributions,that you can't replace,unless you work 6 mo.past your projected retirement date.Because contributions go up with new contracts,you won't have to work all of the lost time to make up the $ difference.The pension office will help you figure that.What some people don't understand is that,you will have the credit for say 30yrs,because the time out on Comp you are still employed,but to get what your read out states you have to have the weekly contributions.In my case,thanks to back surgery,knee surgery twice and a pregnant Black Angus cow on the New York Thruway I had to work 1.7 yrs over my 30 to get my full amount.I hope this will help out some of my Brothers & Sisters when planning their retirement........."Steakmaker"
UPSTeamster542
Active Member
Canon: what camera are u using? Nice high quality pictures by the way.
crazygill
Active Member
I got 21 years here, I have work for many others company some very large like ATT Edison and none have been as entertaining a ups remember this all Manager from sort sup up want one thing to move up and most don't care how they get their it you grt my drift, if you stay just do your job stay clean and learn theis words I AM JUST DOING THE BEST THAT I CAN and smile
You wrote " asked to work at 100% each and everyday..... Why would you not. That is what you get paid for. Why would you go to your job
everyday
and say.. I'm
going to suck today. I am only going to give them 75%. You know... McDonald's
is look for that just that kind of person.
brownmonster
Man of Great Wisdom
Gill, how are those ESL classes going?
dammor
Well-Known Member
Canon,
I also love the pictures. I'm guessing you you have a big digital. I have a good one also, but I don't live in an area that beautifuf, and the dirt would surely trash my lense. Thanks for the pictures. It was a nice change of pace.
And yes, PASS is broken. They are atempting to fix it here. My fingers are crossed. Hang in............
I also love the pictures. I'm guessing you you have a big digital. I have a good one also, but I don't live in an area that beautifuf, and the dirt would surely trash my lense. Thanks for the pictures. It was a nice change of pace.
And yes, PASS is broken. They are atempting to fix it here. My fingers are crossed. Hang in............
canon
Well-Known Member
Canon 30D. Thanks for the comments. Good post processing can improve any pic.
You're lucky someone is working on it in your center. The mgmt team I've had is excellent when it comes to promising to fix it, but falls short in delivery. I was enthusiastic when we had the little pep-rallies prior to PAS deployment, by all accounts it should be awesome. I've been running under 50% trace since day one on my current route and under managment request that I not follow it.
Aren't they accountable for drivers not meeting the 85% goal? I know reports exist on this, I've seen myself at the very bottom a number of times along with a ton of others not far off. In keeping with the topic of the thread, I have to comment that issues which would make my day run smoother seems to take a very low priority at my building. Whatever kind of workplace atmosphere that creates depends on how it impacts you specifically I suppose. I hold my mgmt to the same standards they ask of me. And they're failing miserably... almost as bad as I am on trace lol. At least when it comes to pas.
But yeah, I'm hanging in there. The additional OT helps with the cost of the lenses.
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