work retail, security, or in a factory. then you'll realise what a bad job (and what a bad supervisor) is.
usual blue collar angst.
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Is UPS really this bad to work for, or are people exaggerating??
- Thread starter johnbirshire
- Start date
farmerbrown
Active Member
Yes UPS management is capable of being that bad! No doubt about it. Managers are really just like bad secretaries. They are overwhelmed, forget things, and when you get an occasional good one, they leave or get canned by the incompetant jerk above them. If you want to sell your time for a good benefits package and decent pay then this is about as good as it gets. I do this job to make my customers happy and they appreciate it. Think of UPS management as a traffic jam. They only last so long and thanks to the Union, you will get where your going eventually. Good Luck.
woodenfoot
Active Member
you have a nerve being pinched or to much presher is being put on a nerve getting cut is in your years to come in area of lower 4 or 5 vertabray
DS
Fenderbender
angst? Against what?usual blue collar angst.
A student that thinks hes smart?
Getting back to the thread,unfortunately,ups has become
a white collar company with brown collar employees.
Supervised by beige collared employees that each have thier own idea about how to get promoted to white collered ones.Some of them abuse thier authority by demanding impossible goals "up to and including dismissal",because the whiter collared ones are demanding better numbers.
Its a mess.
just go in her profile. not seeing much there
no, this "oh you're young and you want to move up, that makes you a know it all"
and the "you want to go into corporate only for the big bucks, because you're an ass, and you think you're too good for us" tripe that's coming out of your mouth, even though i said i was looking at (instead of aiming for) corporate, and because it would suit my lifestyle better; i'd rather land accounts than threaten unionized employees, which is something you seem to support. oh but wait, the accounts guys do nothing but pile more work on you...
1That's a blue collar unionized environment for you. Labour (and benefits) is the number one cost, and it's way larger than the competition. So to be able to compete, you have to run a tight ship. Demand tight numbers. Negative externiality is that the people at the bottom have the sh-t land on them the hardest. Everyone's talking about how the stock is hurting
confused111) and that major restructuring is needed confused111), yet no one is willing to take a pay cut in order to take a productuvity cut. Interesting 
tieguy
Banned
There was a time when trick would apologize for being so freaking stupid ( but I'm just a poor dumb truck driver) and I would tell him no apology needed. Apology needed after this one.
trickpony1
Well-Known Member
....there was a time when Trick thought that management had something better to do than post fictitious characters on the internet (probably on company time) just to see who would take the bait and then kick back with their cup of coffee, their fellow "suits and ties" and laugh at the responses, but not any more.
No apology from me.
W
westsideworma
Guest
just go in her profile. not seeing much there
no, this "oh you're young and you want to move up, that makes you a know it all"
and the "you want to go into corporate only for the big bucks, because you're an ass, and you think you're too good for us" tripe that's coming out of your mouth, even though i said i was looking at (instead of aiming for) corporate, and because it would suit my lifestyle better; i'd rather land accounts than threaten unionized employees, which is something you seem to support. oh but wait, the accounts guys do nothing but pile more work on you...
That's a blue collar unionized environment for you. Labour (and benefits) is the number one cost, and it's way larger than the competition. So to be able to compete, you have to run a tight ship. Demand tight numbers. Negative externiality is that the people at the bottom have the sh-t land on them the hardest. Everyone's talking about how the stock is hurting
......but why should we take the cut? we're not the ones who come up with these brilliant plans (which almost never make anything better) to save this company. We come in and do our jobs as we're directed to do, why should we pay when it doesn't work? It doesn't work because those tight numbers you speak of are usually next to impossible to attain. They don't base them in a place I like to call reality. I think they should let our service do the talking personally. Our customers couldn't care less if we did a stop in 5 min instead of 6 so long as we got all their packages there, when they wanted them. If there is too much work to allow us to get our service, put more drivers on the road, its that simple.
If we had said drivers, they wouldn't "whine" about sales leads piling more work onto them because it could be spread around evenly and I bet you they would be more apt to get them (leads). It'd also mean more money for UPS, granted it'd pay for the drivers they hired, but if they kept getting leads it would increase market share as well.
For an example in unrealistic numbers, the current plan on my shift seems to be expecting preloaders to load at 250pph and have no misloads. They don't even play by their own rules, PAS only calls for 180 in the green cards with the quick facts about it that they handed out when we went live. So by those standards since I have 900-1100 pieces a day I should have about 5-6 hours to do it. Granted I don't load that slow anyways, but its the principle of the thing. Also cramming 1100 packages into 3 cars is not smart either. IF we had that time I guarantee misloads would go down if not disappear and the load quality would greatly improve. But apparently "drivers don't care about load quality just misloads" (the latest jewel we were fed). Drivers on this board is this true? Would you rather have a tight load (mostly sequenced stop for stop as space allows as well) with a misload now and then (every other day or two or so) or no misloads and a big mess of boxes down the middle of your truck everyday? I am honestly curious.
However it will never happen, not because that would actually work, but because it costs $$$ and could keep managers from buying that new house or that new car this month instead of a month or two down the road because they won't get that stock or salary bonus (that one came from someone IN management so don't go quoting class angst again). This person actually does give a damn about hourlies and understands that the majority of us do work hard and give our best everyday but they are in the minority so nothing changes. They have tried to load a pull that is a little heavier than mine in 4hrs and even they admit it cannot be done without help...which we don't have because we cut extra people back, it took 3 supervisors to get it done...3! and they whine because we don't finish? come on now. I know they shouldn't be loading but I won't talk about that right now either (as they do pretty much everyday somewhere).
I'm not saying everyone in management is bad, because thats next to impossible, but if their immediate superior is bad, they MUST do what they are told which in effect makes them unfair as well.
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From what I read on here the majority of drivers believe the numbers are impossible to reach and if the reports were done away with and more drivers added, it would solve all the service problems.
Allow me to give you a little history of what happens when the reports are eliminated.
In the late 1940s the drivers in New York city were complaining about the reports, the same as a lot of you complain today. The Union approached UPS management with these complaints and management decided to go along with the Union and stop the use of the Operation Reports, because the drivers said that they knew what a fair days work was and didn't need a report to tell them how much work they had every day.
After operating for over a year without an Operation Report, management looked at how many hours the drivers were working and how many stops the drivers were now doing compared to how many hours and how many stops they were doing when an Operation Report was in use.
Guess what....the drivers were working more hours with fewer stops than before.
Guess what else....the operation report was re-instated immediately, and amazingly the drivers once again began working fewer hours with more stops.
This proved that "work expands to the time allowed" is true. Some mechanism must be in effect to insure you get what you pay for. You would be reluctent to pay $20 for gas if you weren't sure that you actually received $20 worth of gas. That is the reason there are meters on gas pumps, why the butcher has a scale, and why a 36 inch yard stick is a standard of measurement.
Allow me to give you a little history of what happens when the reports are eliminated.
In the late 1940s the drivers in New York city were complaining about the reports, the same as a lot of you complain today. The Union approached UPS management with these complaints and management decided to go along with the Union and stop the use of the Operation Reports, because the drivers said that they knew what a fair days work was and didn't need a report to tell them how much work they had every day.
After operating for over a year without an Operation Report, management looked at how many hours the drivers were working and how many stops the drivers were now doing compared to how many hours and how many stops they were doing when an Operation Report was in use.
Guess what....the drivers were working more hours with fewer stops than before.
Guess what else....the operation report was re-instated immediately, and amazingly the drivers once again began working fewer hours with more stops.
This proved that "work expands to the time allowed" is true. Some mechanism must be in effect to insure you get what you pay for. You would be reluctent to pay $20 for gas if you weren't sure that you actually received $20 worth of gas. That is the reason there are meters on gas pumps, why the butcher has a scale, and why a 36 inch yard stick is a standard of measurement.
who said it's not working? it's working, employees don't like it. so all i am saying is 'ok, let ups cut your productivity to the level of FX!' well, uh, when you do that, you should be paid at the same level of FX. UPS pays way above industry average for a very good reason, and this is it. don't like it? or the work? go to FX. enjoy your productivity (and pay) cut.
money talks.
(ps: if you're looking for inside jobs, fedex express pays significantly better and you don't work as hard)
A
anon orl pter
Guest
I work the Midnight shift loading feeders in Orlando, FL's hub. All of the management staff I have talked to here is great. I haven't seen sexism towards any of the female co-workers, theres no threats or intimidation. Our supervisors actually treat us with respect. Maybe it's just us midnight freaks?
George Lucas and Steven King couldn't dream up some of the stuff that goes on at UPS...
This proved that "work expands to the time allowed" is true. Some mechanism must be in effect to insure you get what you pay for. You would be reluctent to pay $20 for gas if you weren't sure that you actually received $20 worth of gas. That is the reason there are meters on gas pumps, why the butcher has a scale, and why a 36 inch yard stick is a standard of measurement.
Yes their must be a measurement, but it needs to be a fairly accurate one. If they took away 6 seconds per pkg because the diad use saved that much time, they need to put back in time for the extra handling pkgs. They changed more than 5.8 secs per pkg, we all know that. 5.8 sec per scanned pkg is 10 minutes per 100. Some of us have lost over an hour from what we used to run. But no one is capable of telling us exactly what was changed, or why. The old standards were close, these are ludicrous. Meausre us but do it fairly.
Yes their must be a measurement, but it needs to be a fairly accurate one. If they took away 6 seconds per pkg because the diad use saved that much time, they need to put back in time for the extra handling pkgs. They changed more than 5.8 secs per pkg, we all know that. 5.8 sec per scanned pkg is 10 minutes per 100. Some of us have lost over an hour from what we used to run. But no one is capable of telling us exactly what was changed, or why. The old standards were close, these are ludicrous. Meausre us but do it fairly.
upsguysavannah
Active Member
Let me put it this way... I love the job so much that when I was given no other choice but to quit when I had to move for personal reasons, and because UPS will not grant hourly employees transfers, I've gotten rehired PT and am working myself back up to FT driver. Yes, the job can be hard and you will have some bad days, but you have to take it all in stride and keep yourself from getting stressed-out... then you will enjoy the job.
dammor
Well-Known Member
A lesson from the 1940's. I need more information. Did they whip the horses that were pulling the carriages full of packages with the operation reports?
I started in 1980 and our weight limit was 50 pounds at that time. Then it was 70 and now it is 150. We've all seen much heavier come through the system though and we all know what they look like. Rounded edges because of course we have had to roll them all the way.
I know I am being a bit sarcastic, but my point is that I think it is a stretch to compare the 1940's or even the 1980's to what the reality of UPS is now.
Some things are better, some are not. I personally think the operation reports are a useful tool if the folks setting the bar had a clue. We had time studies done here a few months ago and they were done by those educated ones that have never delivered a package in their young life. They rode with us for one day and counted our steps. I want that job.
W
westsideworma
Guest
you think 12 hour days for drivers means it is "working"? I know a whole hub full of them and more that may disagree with you.
and forcing the preloaders to do more and faster, to look good on paper isn't working either....where do you think most of the misloads arise from? piles of packages outside the trucks because its coming down too fast and theres not enough time to sort it out properly and finish....on time.
Yes the drivers are paid above average wages. I am not disputing that, but abusing them and their time on this earth because of it hardly seems like good practice.
For the last time, I know the work is hard that isn't what bothers me. I have no problem rolling up my sleeves and getting into the thick of things. The fact that FX does less doesn't either, its the simple fact that UPS pays the drivers for their troubles, I think we deserve the same. I do NOT mean the same wages, but the same respect. 8.50 an hour is not way above industry average...if it is I hate to see your idea of average. Roadway express starts their loaders/dockworkers at 15.31/hr. I don't want to go work there before you say "then go work there!" I'm just making a point.
This job isn't my main source of income so the rate doesn't matter as much to me as it does to some, do i think the starting wage is a slap in the face to most of the hardworking people here? yes I do. However theres not a damn thing I can do about it. Doesn't mean its right.
ups works their employees into the ground. this isn't news. from a business perspective, it is working. they get paid a very good rate, they do a very good job.
well, when you factor in tuition reimbursement, i'm earning more than an driver with at or less than 1 year senority. and i only work 3-4 hours a night. you and i are part time labour. all things being equal, our labour is worth much less.
ps, fedex express has the exact same pay scale for ramp handlers and couriers. part time or full. i say this is because they're not unionized.
tieguy
Banned
Yes UPS management is capable of being that bad! No doubt about it. Managers are really just like bad secretaries. They are overwhelmed, forget things, and when you get an occasional good one, they leave or get canned by the incompetant jerk above them.
Is that your experience with secretaries farmer brown. What office do you work in?
If you want to sell your time for a good benefits package and decent pay then this is about as good as it gets. I do this job to make my customers happy and they appreciate it.
Why farmer brown it appears you are trying to tell us you don't work for good pay and beni's but only to serve the customer.
Think of UPS management as a traffic jam. They only last so long and thanks to the Union, you will get where your going eventually. Good Luck.
Farmer brown there is a small problem with your clever little farmer analogy. The traffic jam is the one paying your bills and feeding your family. Your union brothers would like to know when the union will get them to their retirement and they are hoping that the eventually part you referenced does not mean they work until their seventy like real farmers.
tieguy
Banned
....there was a time when Trick thought that management had something better to do than post fictitious characters on the internet (probably on company time) just to see who would take the bait and then kick back with their cup of coffee, their fellow "suits and ties" and laugh at the responses, but not any more.
No apology from me.
poor trick he sees management boogie men behind every positive poster.
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