New GPS Time Study: What they are not telling you

[soberups]

Where did I say a lock in ride wasn't fair? I specifically pointed out that the union will recognize a 3 day ride because that measures demonstrated performance, in contrast to the time studies.
I don't know what NDPPH is.

My local does not recognize "3 day lock-in rides".

"Lock-in rides" are not mentioned anywhere in the labor agreement. They are a fictitous concept that the company arbitrarily created.

NDPPH is Net Delivery Pieces Per Hour. Its just another metric.

 

[bumped]

More drivers would be accepting of time studies if we knew what makes up the study. Its like the Kentucky Fried Chicken recipe stored away in a safe closely guarded. Up North, 3 months out of the year are snow covered with icy roads and icy sidewalks. I've never seen a 3 day ride in the winter when its dark at 4:30. They're always in the summer months when the suns out until 9:00.

 

[tourists24]

What you are pointing out here is that your local management does not know what Work Measurement is and how it should be used - in a perfect world.
I often commented that the use of Work Measurement by Operations Management reminded me of giving a person a screwdriver and their upper management telling them to use it as a hammer.
The frustrating thing is that Ops use of WM does increase productivity.

As an aside, I assume that the person that is now running the mall route is now running 2 hours over. If the answer is yes, then this should be the standard.

Thats one of the problems, operations arent anything but glorified secretaries trying to arrange how to shift all work dictated down to them. We all know its never a perfect world. But its the operations mgt we have to deal with and they come after our jobs for not making those la la land numbers look correct.

And yes, the new driver runs 2 hours over. But do you reallly think its the standard? No, mgt is still reamed because they have a driver running 2 hours over. Thats all that matters.

 

[Hangingon]

Didn't have time to read through the whole thread but was curious if the company makes the centers implement the new allowances? We had the GPS time study done a while back and our sup told us the center manager didn't agree with the numbers so will not implement them. Apparently most routes gained time except our number one gunner. He lost almost 2 hours from his 4 hour bonus route. He was sheeting and completing the stop in the cab then running it off.
They are still giving automatic warning letters to anyone more then 30 min OA and that just seems unfair if the company itself says that most of the current standards are incorrect.

 

[Jones]

My local does not recognize "3 day lock-in rides".

"Lock-in rides" are not mentioned anywhere in the labor agreement. They are a fictitous concept that the company arbitrarily created.

NDPPH is Net Delivery Pieces Per Hour. Its just another metric.

Whether or not your local will recognize them the company has had some success at panel using the 3 day ride as a measure of acceptable performance, which is why they are currently all the rage.

 

[pretzel_man]

My local does not recognize "3 day lock-in rides".

"Lock-in rides" are not mentioned anywhere in the labor agreement. They are a fictitous concept that the company arbitrarily created.

NDPPH is Net Delivery Pieces Per Hour. Its just another metric.

There are a lot of good reasons for the union to not recognize these performance metrics. The truth of the matter is that NOTHING could ever be done to have you recognize them.

No system will ever be perfect. You complain about a system created and maintained by someone behind a desk.

Yet, you also do not recognize three on road observations by a supervisor. Like dealing with my ex-wife. Nothing will ever be good enough. I just accept that and do my best.

P-Man

 

[stevetheupsguy]

There are a lot of good reasons for the union to not recognize these performance metrics. The truth of the matter is that NOTHING could ever be done to have you recognize them.

No system will ever be perfect. You complain about a system created and maintained by someone behind a desk.

Yet, you also do not recognize three on road observations by a supervisor. Like dealing with my ex-wife. Nothing will ever be good enough. I just accept that and do my best.

P-Man

Actually, since she's your EX, you didn't accept that, just sayin...

P-Man, I have to agree with sober on the 3 day lock-in ride. If the ride was 3 normal days, I'd be more comfortable with that. As is the case, the loads on those 3 days are usually manipulated so that the numbers that mgmt want are almost impossible not to reach. Stops are in order, areas are cut from the route, etc... I also agree with the person that said something about mgmt only doing 3 day lock-in rides in the summer, as opposed to the winter, where snow and other things can hinder a driver. If mgmt wants to be fair, then they would be FAIR. It's a FAIR days work for a FAIR days pay, and the way things have been manipulated, there's nothing "FAIR" about this.

My supes and center manager had been riding me for over a year about my overallowed. I've had many OJS rides and attempts at 1 day lock-in rides, that I absolutely don't agree with. They tried to intimidate me to move faster and all along I told them the route needed to be studied. About 2 months ago a study was done and most of the routes in our building loosened up. Some routes lost time, but I think this study in effect balanced the board. I now run the same sporh and am underallowed, which is very pleasing to mgmt and they haven't been on my back. What I see them having done is taking their "magic numbers" and changing them so that it looks better on the paper, because I'm still working just as I did before.

 

[brownedout]

My 3 day lock in, which became a 5 day lock in (with the unions permission) was in January. No snow but cold and dark. Yes bulk and pieces were down, loads were absolutely groomed. Not at all a fair representation of what my day has since become. So my demonstrated performance will not be same either. Now if only I had known to answer differently when BA asked if I were being overly supervised or harrassed after 3rd day.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

If 3-day "lock-in" rides are catagorized within numerical ranges, rather than a single point , then they could hold some value. Anyone with even a modest background in math can vouch for that.

However , I have never once in my life seen UPS SPORH resemble anything but a single number, which leads me to believe it is simply more scare tactics from the company in favor of the company.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

You know, coming from a math and sci background, I have to say that is the main problem I have...

FOR ex: (laymens) You're watching the weather forecast on TV and there's a chance of snow. How often do we see weather guys and gals give a RANGE of snowfall, rather than a point forecast? It's very simple : because you will get beat more often by point forecasting. By giving a fair range buffer, it accounts for all possible 'things that can go wrong'.

That's basically my only main problem with using the 3-day ride numbers for discipline purposes.

Sure there's other things like massaging workloads, harrassment, picking and choosing days that have been proven to be run slightly faster in the past per that route...etc etc. Those are mostly integrity issues.

 

[Bubblehead]

There are a lot of good reasons for the union to not recognize these performance metrics. The truth of the matter is that NOTHING could ever be done to have you recognize them.

No system will ever be perfect. You complain about a system created and maintained by someone behind a desk.

Yet, you also do not recognize three on road observations by a supervisor. Like dealing with my ex-wife. Nothing will ever be good enough. I just accept that and do my best.

P-Man

Every day is different on a UPS route.
Every three days are different on a UPS route.
When we get into the newspaper delivery business, where we deliver the same thing (size, weight, and dimension), to the same location, day in and day out, then maybe that method would be somewhat valid.
A fair days work for a fair days pay in reality is too complicated an equation to sum up by establishing a SPOHR, which is just 2 variables.
So to compare this with your failed relationship with your ex makes me think maybe she had some valid reasons for exiting your relationship.

 

[Bubblehead]

Hopefully no offense taken by PM.
After all he made the original comparison.

 

[Catatonic]

There are a lot of good reasons for the union to not recognize these performance metrics. The truth of the matter is that NOTHING could ever be done to have you recognize them.

No system will ever be perfect. You complain about a system created and maintained by someone behind a desk.

Yet, you also do not recognize three on road observations by a supervisor. Like dealing with my ex-wife. Nothing will ever be good enough. I just accept that and do my best.

P-Man

I have observed P-Mans hundreds of posts over the years and have been truly impressed by his perseverence and patience in explaining things to people who by all apparent observations are unwilling or unable to understand what he is explaining. It seems that even P-Man finally reached a level of exasperation that even he could not help displaying.

I liken these arguments to people arguing that oxygen will not burn ... it is counter-intuitive that oxygen will not burn so most people will not listen to any explanations that oxygen does not burn. Just an observation.

 

[Bubblehead]

I have observed P-Mans hundreds of posts over the years and have been truly impressed by his perseverence and patience in explaining things to people who by all apparent observations are unwilling or unable to understand what he is explaining. It seems that even P-Man finally reached a level of exasperation that even he could not help displaying.

I liken these arguments to people arguing that oxygen will not burn ... it is counter-intuitive that oxygen will not burn so most people will not listen to any explanations that oxygen does not burn. Just an observation.

Oxygen doesn't burn.
It's an element

 

[just interested]

I can guarantee you that the change in economy and the new time study system are totally unrelated. Think about it. The system development had to begin well before it was implemented. The concept of how to do it had to begin much before that. The new ime study system is a very good and ingenious concept.

As I said, most centers gained time with the new system...

Now, the focus on cost reduction, reducing miles, reducing overallowed, etc. is related to the economy. This would have happened whether the new time study system was created or not.

P-Man

P-Man - What percentage of the facilities across the USA have completed the implementation of the new time studies? OF these, what percentage show an overall gain in time?

 

[just interested]

Also, when the study is done, how long afterwards until the "sit down with the driver" meeting to describe specific points/differences on their routes? The obvious necessity for this is the variety of buildings/stairs/elevators, etc.

Once that meeting takes place, how long until the new time study is implemented? Or is it implemented pending the info meeting with the driver?

Thanks for your candor, P-man. I truly appreciate your willingness to share this information.

 

[BrownArmy]

sd

Also, when the study is done, how long afterwards until the "sit down with the driver" meeting to describe specific points/differences on their routes? The obvious necessity for this is the variety of buildings/stairs/elevators, etc.

Once that meeting takes place, how long until the new time study is implemented? Or is it implemented pending the info meeting with the driver?

Thanks for your candor, P-man. I truly appreciate your willingness to share this information.

Anyone else can disagree, but my guess is there is no "sit down with the driver".

 

[Re-Raise]

I have observed P-Mans hundreds of posts over the years and have been truly impressed by his perseverence and patience in explaining things to people who by all apparent observations are unwilling or unable to understand what he is explaining. It seems that even P-Man finally reached a level of exasperation that even he could not help displaying.

I liken these arguments to people arguing that oxygen will not burn ... it is counter-intuitive that oxygen will not burn so most people will not listen to any explanations that oxygen does not burn. Just an observation.

I don't like your comparison.

Like Bubblehead said there are too many variables that go into a driver's day to assess it by a narrow metric like SPORH.

Rather than comparing it to whether oxygen will burn, it is more like blindly saying a bag of trash will burn.

The contents of a bag of trash can vary.

Just because you observed a bag of trash burning three days in a row doesn't mean that I will agree with you that the next day's trash will also burn in the same way.

I have a fair allowance, but as a driver I understand the frustration that other drivers feel over being held to a standard that can be compromised in so many ways.

 

[Coldworld]

ha, this thread is like a dog chasing its tail around, and around and around......

 

[Coldworld]

I believe the different aspects of the allowance should be re calculated, ie, signature stops, cod packages, selection...etc. What year were these different aspects of our jobs studied and assigned a time value...1940?? Everybody knows customers today are not the sane as they were 20, 30 or 40 years ago. It use to be that customers would drop EVERYTHING and give their drivers their full attention. Now you can walk up to someone on the phone, stick the diad 1 inch from their face and they wont sign the damn board and make you wait. How about selection, back in the day before blown out cars and 150 lb pkgs, ups WAS a small parcel shipper, why should a driver be penalized for having bulk or having trouble finding a few pkgs...lets get these different aspects of the job in 2010 ups terms.....ok I better wake up now that was a nice dream