Nys teamsters pension & retirement fund

[BigUnionGuy]

Truth be told, Sam B was estranged from TDU after they sided with Butch.

You mean Butch....

"I've grossly exaggerated my military experience and disability" ?

 

[Bubblehead]

You mean Butch....

"I've grossly exaggerated my military experience and disability" ?


-Bug -

It's not nice to speak of the dead in that tone....

.....especially on Veterans Day, on the heels of having a pension bill being named after the "hero"???


~Bbbl~™

 

[Bubblehead]

It's not nice to speak of the dead in that tone....

.....especially on Veterans Day, on the heels of having a pension bill being named after the "hero"???


~Bbbl~™

Did you miss that caveat @BigUnionGuy?
Sherrod Brown named his proposed pension reform bill, "The Butch Lewis Act".

Brown Announces Plan to Protect Ohio Pensions, Keep Promises to Ohio Workers | Press Releases | United States Senator Sherrod Brown

Some say you die twice.
First when your heart stops....

....the second being the last time someone says your name.

Butch is flirting with immortality.


~Bbbl~™

 

[Signature Only]

4.5 more years and then we are all on a 401K plan, for those of us that qualify we still get a pension.

Will the company match or contribute to the new 401K plan? Will the plan have a variety of investment vehicles available to participants or will it be company controlled?

What determines who qualifies for a management pension?

 

[Signature Only]

The blue text is annoying.

It takes away from any point you might be trying to make.


Addressing the issue of discipline;


The sole purpose of it, is to correct behavior. Long established fact.

It has nothing to do with trying to force layman, into compliance of arbitrary

articles of the contract. Which are left vague to begin with.



-Bug-

Is this better?

The sole purpose of discipline may be to correct behavior and it may be a long established fact.

But there are many differences between theory and practice.

And that is also a long established fact. It is evident in all areas of humanity from family life to governments.

Rules, laws, constitutional protections have and always will be subverted by those few to whom these concepts are tools to enrich themselves or harm others, sometimes just because they can.

I'm sure everyone here has seen proof of this. Employees fired for no reason, who are reinstated by labor or at panel. Fired because some manager wanted to "make a point" We've also seen discipline enforced unevenly.

Sometimes those seeking to correct behavior require the most supervision.

 

[over9five]

Red is worse....

 

[Inthegame]

Collective bargaining?

Seem to remember the Company wanting the pension in 1997, when we went on strike?


Leaving behind all of the other Teamsters in an already upside down multi-employer fund?

Doesn't sound like a feasible plan for an organization that claims to be a "brotherhood"?

Yea, I know, "continuing liability".

Tranlation: Ponzi Scheme



~Bbbl~™

Keep this up and I'll start calling you MonkeyBubbleUpstate, the rockthrower.
Calling a pension a ponzi scheme is flat out ignorant.
How many ponzi's pay billions in benefits for over 70 yrs to their participants? How many ponzi's have verifiable ROI steadily beating their index? How many ponzi's have their books scrutinized yearly by the Fed Govt.

Anywho, in '97 the CSPF wasn't facing the stresses it is today. In '97 members weren't enthused about getting out of CSPF or other strong plans for the maybe promises from UPS. Ten years later the picture wasn't so rosy. In 2007 when the writing was clearly on the wall, UPS's offer and action of paying the WD put the CSPF into green zone status, gaining years of solvency (on paper) protecting all Teamsters in that plan.

Then the market failed. Was that Hoffa's fault? Or the trustees?

Without the market meltdown, and with the UPS payment, the CSPF was poised to weather the influx of orphans from bankrupt companies that left the fund without paying their WD obligations, losses that have crippled the funding requirements.

Knowing the dire condition of the CSPF in 2007, how many UPSers do you think would have voted to strike had the IBT refused UPS's offer, with the offset protection? My guess...less than 10%. Terribly weak bargaining position.

Anyone blaming Hoffa or the CSPF trustees for the CSPF woes needs to remember employees and pension funds are at the back of the creditor line under business backed bankruptcy laws, which means we get nothing.

Any guess on which political party pushed those laws through Congress?

 

[Inthegame]

Central States, is the one that came up with number for the withdraw liability.

Maybe I'm not the pension expert.... but, if a company can pay the withdraw

liability what's from stopping them ? Especially when they're offering an

alternative pension plan that puts the liability for funding (shortfalls) on them ?

That just sounds like basic contract negotiation to me.


Maybe @Inthegame could offer some insight.

I always look forward to his opinion.





The writing was on the wall, no doubt.

I mean.... CF had just shut the doors without paying their obligation.

Just more orphans added to the fund.



-Bug-

The W/D is what usually stops most companies as it's too big a hurdle. UPS isn't most companies. But even then the CSPF allows a twenty year window to pay W/D of course with 7.5% interest tacked on. UPS paid it off immediately.
Must've been a big wheelbarrow.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

The W/D is what usually stops most companies as it's too big a hurdle. UPS isn't most companies. But even then the CSPF allows a twenty year window to pay W/D of course with 7.5% interest tacked on. UPS paid it off immediately.
Must've been a big wheelbarrow.

When the company made the initial proposal, the Union kind of scoffed and threw out

a ballpark estimate of what the withdraw liability was. UPS said they could NDA a check

there by the following morning. That changed the scope of negotiations on that subject.


I always appreciate your posts and insight on pension issues. I've tried to limit my comments,

only to my first hand experience.



-Bug-

 

[BigUnionGuy]

It's not nice to speak of the dead in that tone....

.....especially on Veterans Day, on the heels of having a pension bill being named after the "hero"???


~Bbbl~™

Did you miss that caveat @BigUnionGuy?
Sherrod Brown named his proposed pension reform bill, "The Butch Lewis Act".

Brown Announces Plan to Protect Ohio Pensions, Keep Promises to Ohio Workers | Press Releases | United States Senator Sherrod Brown

Some say you die twice.
First when your heart stops....

....the second being the last time someone says your name.

Butch is flirting with immortality.


~Bbbl~™

When he showed up at my Local pushing some TDU agenda, I was less than impressed.

He parked next to the guard shack in a handicap spot.... without a placard.

I questioned him about it, and he threw out the "military vet" card immediately.


Me, having an inquisitive nature, was interested in his service. It was total deflection....

his purpose was all TDU. I even offered to share some family WW-2 stories, just to

break the ice and try to establish a conversation. Nope.


And then, your Local elected him President.

For 1 term....



-Bug-

 

[Bubblehead]

Keep this up and I'll start calling you MonkeyBubbleUpstate, the rockthrower.
Calling a pension a ponzi scheme is flat out ignorant.
How many ponzi's pay billions in benefits for over 70 yrs to their participants? How many ponzi's have verifiable ROI steadily beating their index? How many ponzi's have their books scrutinized yearly by the Fed Govt.

Anywho, in '97 the CSPF wasn't facing the stresses it is today. In '97 members weren't enthused about getting out of CSPF or other strong plans for the maybe promises from UPS. Ten years later the picture wasn't so rosy. In 2007 when the writing was clearly on the wall, UPS's offer and action of paying the WD put the CSPF into green zone status, gaining years of solvency (on paper) protecting all Teamsters in that plan.

Then the market failed. Was that Hoffa's fault? Or the trustees?

Without the market meltdown, and with the UPS payment, the CSPF was poised to weather the influx of orphans from bankrupt companies that left the fund without paying their WD obligations, losses that have crippled the funding requirements.

Knowing the dire condition of the CSPF in 2007, how many UPSers do you think would have voted to strike had the IBT refused UPS's offer, with the offset protection? My guess...less than 10%. Terribly weak bargaining position.

Anyone blaming Hoffa or the CSPF trustees for the CSPF woes needs to remember employees and pension funds are at the back of the creditor line under business backed bankruptcy laws, which means we get nothing.

Any guess on which political party pushed those laws through Congress?

While the term "ponzi scheme" may very well be a gross oversimplification, it certainly paints the picture of the fatal flaw of the pension system.

....the same flaw as many pensions suffer, a disproportionate number of beneficiaries verses active participants.

Most ponzi schemes go undetected by the SEC until their beneficiaries outnumber their active participants.
As long as there's a balance, everything is "kosher".

Scary thing is, most UPSer's now feel comfortable that our pension is finely wrapped, and now safe in a single employer fund???....

....but isn't that what all financial advisors rail against, putting all your eggs in one basket?

Face it, the "scheme" has been exposed.

 

[Inthegame]

While the term "ponzi scheme" may very well be a gross oversimplification, it certainly paints the picture of the fatal flaw of the pension system.

....the same flaw as many pensions suffer, a disproportionate number of beneficiaries verses active participants.

Most ponzi schemes go undetected by the SEC until their beneficiaries outnumber their active participants.
As long as there's a balance, everything is "kosher".

Scary thing is, most UPSer's now feel comfortable that our pension is finely wrapped, and now safe in a single employer fund???....

....but isn't that what all financial advisors rail against, putting all your eggs in one basket?

Face it, the "scheme" has been exposed.

Enron comes to mind...

 

[Bubblehead]

When he showed up at my Local pushing some TDU agenda, I was less than impressed.

He parked next to the guard shack in a handicap spot.... without a placard.

I questioned him about it, and he threw out the "military vet" card immediately.


Me, having an inquisitive nature, was interested in his service. It was total deflection....

his purpose was all TDU. I even offered to share some family WW-2 stories, just to

break the ice and try to establish a conversation. Nope.


And then, your Local elected him President.

For 1 term....



-Bug-

I was never a fan here locally, and also found him hard to talk to.

I did however gain a moniker of respect for his fortitude after his retirement.

Of my last two presidents, in hindsight, I'd pick him.

 

[Bubblehead]

Enron comes to mind...

Exactly!!!

If Central States lost all of that money in the stock market collapse, who ended up with it?