OrlandoCitySC
Well-Known Member
This is exactly what I'm talking about: Punch-out to pee: Company to pay $1.75mn for bathroom break back wages
On Topic: UPS attempting to terminate newer driver after filing grievances
- Thread starter OrlandoCitySC
- Start date
El Correcto
god is dead
35years
Gravy route
Not sure what part of my post you wanted in a link, so here is a link to the other pertinent language;
04/06/1998 - Interpretation of 29 CFR 1910.141(c)(1)(i): Toilet Facilities
"The quoted provision of the standard is followed immediately by a paragraph stating that the toilet provision does not apply to mobile work crews or to locations that are normally unattended, "provided the employees working at these locations have transportation immediately available to nearby toilet facilities which meet the other requirements" of the standard (29 CFR 1910.141(c)(1)(ii) (emphasis supplied). Thus employees who are members of mobile crews, or who work at normally unattended locations must be able to leave their work location "immediately" for a "nearby" toilet facility. This provision was obviously intended to provide these employees with protection equivalent to that the general provision provides to to employees at fixed worksites. Read together, the two provisions make clear that all employees must have prompt access to toilet facilities. "
I would certainly not hold out for back pay since the 3rd District court ruling that was used to get the bathroom back pay settlement you linked to specifically excludes extending break, which is your situation. You will be very lucky to get the job back without backpay.
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40 and out
Well-Known Member
How does one get followed around for 3 days and not know it? And who the hell needs 10 minutes to take a dump? Sounds like he is messing with the company. Not real smart considering he should know harassment has already happened and would continue and probably increase with all the grievances.
I read it in its entirety. Are you dyslexic or something? You seem to read super slowly because I finished reading the post in its entirety in the same amount of time it probably took you to write that comment. Then again, I might be overestimating your abilities a little bit there...
It sounds like the OP here is working with a seriously shady supervisor. Forcing someone to clock out just because you're taking a bathroom break sounds illegal on so many levels. I worked for the post office before, and they tired to pull that crap on me but the shop steward didn't let them get away with it. I would threaten to get an attorney.
Rick Ross
I'm into distribution!!
How far was your last stop from Taco Bell? Unless you were right next door when you went on break they could technically get you for the time driving from your last delivery to the restaurant as well as the time used in the restroom.
I personally think it is stealing time since you added your lunch to the bathroom break time. Had you taken a dump and returned directly to trace without the meal, I think you would have been fine. That being said I think you get your job back... hopefully you can stay out of trouble in the future.
I personally think it is stealing time since you added your lunch to the bathroom break time. Had you taken a dump and returned directly to trace without the meal, I think you would have been fine. That being said I think you get your job back... hopefully you can stay out of trouble in the future.
Billy Ray
God, help us all.....
10 minutes is not using the restroom quickly.
You have put yourself in this box, by adding restroom time to the end, or beginning, of your break.
You just can't justify this behavior.
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UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Because it is untrue-----he made it up to try to bolster his harassment claims.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Maybe it's because I am older but my bladder seems to know when there is a public restroom nearby.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Compensable.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
So you're saying it would have been OK for me to just park the truck for 2.25 hours and not tell anyone? Yeah, I don't think so.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
That's reallyed up if you ask me. Everyone's gotta pee/take a
You are an inside employee and as such you take you break when directed. Do you think it would be OK for you to sit there for 10 minutes and then decide you need to take a leak?
******
So UPSTATE....if it's near the end of the day and you are out of lunch and break time and needed to go really bad you are saying g we should piss or crap ourselves right in the drivers seat for fear of termination for stealing time because we are out of time that day??
They told me to clock out many years ago again when the harassment level was high on me......and as usual my response was kiss my a** and fire me.
And told them I will
myself right in my pants and continue doing the route and interact with the customers just like that and expose them when asked why.And I'm most assured you can press a lawsuit on them.
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And I'd be fired a few thousand times if that were the case.
UPSTATE.......why are you such an idiot.....serious question
Ring Sport
Well-Known Member
I didn't read this whole thread, but I will leave this right here.
Pa. Company Has to Pay for Bathroom Breaks
Looks like it was mentioned already. I read the article when it first was published. If I'm using the restroom on break, it is part of my break. If I need to pee, I just do it quickly without abusing the time.
Pa. Company Has to Pay for Bathroom Breaks
Looks like it was mentioned already. I read the article when it first was published. If I'm using the restroom on break, it is part of my break. If I need to pee, I just do it quickly without abusing the time.
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Future
Victory Ride
Holy Christ ....write a book !Hello all:
Unfortunately this is about the horrible side of the job. Harassment, intimidation, petty disciplinary measures etc. I'm a newer driver who hasn't been with the company a year yet. After qualifying and becoming a full-fledged employee and union member everything was fantastic for about 6 months.
But then one of the on-car supervisors began getting hostile with me, harassing and intimidating me because I was not performing well enough on a route in his opinion I was covering that was under his supervision and not my own on-car supervisor's. This continued for a couple weeks at least before I asked my union shop steward if there was anything we could do. This was in June. So my shop steward suggested we have a meeting with the Center Manager to discuss the conduct of the On-Car Supervisor who was harassing me. We had said conversation with the Center Manager and end result of that meeting was Center Manager said this On-Car Sup would not be allowed to meet with me anymore without a shop steward present as well as any other On-Car Sup and that if I continued to have any problems with this guy to let the Center Manager know right away.
Ever since then, this On-Car Sup had it out for me continuing to harass me and after discussing with me shop steward again and my union, we decided I should file a grievance for harassment. So I did. Then he left me alone for a little while and all was fine. But then he started targeting me again and trying to nail me for every little thing he could and anything he could. Even riding along with me to supposedly show me where I could improve on that route I was covering but all that happened with that was he helped me all day long and we only got done in time by mere minutes but in order to do so he made me skip my breaks to get the NDA back in time for the day. So that further proved I was being way over-dispatched, which is what I was saying the entire time to begin with. The driver who owned the route I was covering would go out with about 50 stops and had several years worth of area knowledge on that route and they were sending me out with over 100 stops almost daily and sometime up to 130 stops.
Fast forward a couple months into August of this year and he's still harassing me and now even following me around on routes I'd be covering every single day to try and nail me on anything he could. During all this I decided okay, beforehand I had never filed any grievances whatsoever and it wasn't until he became really hostile and nasty with me that I finally decided to file the harassment grievance. But now after more conversations with my union rep and shop steward we decided I should try to opt-in and get on the 9.5 list at my Center because another thing they were doing to me is piling so many stops on me for junk routes and the like that I was having to work 14-hour days almost everyday and by the end of the week always putting the max hours we're allowed.
It took about a month but I was finally able to opt-in. Prior to this I didn't know for sure all the rules about signing up to cover routes for guys on vacation and that if they pulled you off the route you still had 9.5 protection because you didn't volunteer and everything related to that because this same harassing supervisor lied straight to my face several times on covering routes so that he could pull me off the one they were trying to slam me on and assign to a few other drivers willing to run all day and skip their breaks to get those 130 stops or so done.
So now we're into September and I've opted in and am on the 9.5 list so at least they can't make me eat dinner at midnight five days per week because I wouldn't get off until 11pm after an 8:45am start time. So I was feeling like a had a little bit more control over how much they could screw me. But all the while this same supervisor is still trying to find ways to harass me.
So on 9/28/16 this supervisor brings me into the office and tells me he was following me around the previous day on the route I was covering and said he observed me clocked out for lunch but still inside the place I was at for lunch five more minutes after I showed myself punched back in. All I did was take a piss after I finished eating and headed back out to my truck. In said meeting he told me I was to be clocked out while using the restroom. I've never been asked to clock out to use the restroom for any job I've ever had in my entire life. Not to mention it is illegal. Afterward, I asked my shop steward who was in the meeting and my union rep afterward to give me some advice and both said to either go deliver a few more stops and then stop somewhere different to use the restroom or to use the restroom before my lunch and then clocking out immediately afterward or if I had to go bad enough to go while still on break and make it a part of my lunch.
So I never did use the bathroom after my break ever again but did sometimes used it before my lunch and clocking out which still I thought to be fine because having to use the bathroom is just a part of everyday life. And I never abused it nor could it ever be construed that way. In my opinion it was better to do it that way than to be miles away from a bathroom and needing to go and then having to drive way out of my way and stop delivering to go to a gas station or something to use the restroom, which would take way longer than trying to hold it until I was at a reasonable stopping point at go just before lunch. Like during all of our childhoods when your mother would call out it's time for dinner so go get washed up and use the bathroom if you need to before you come to the table. Made perfect sense to me anyway and like I said it's not like I was abusing bathroom usage by any stretch of the imagination. I thought I was doing them a favor saving them time, money and fuel not driving way out of my way and abandoning my route to go find a restroom and go and then going way back out to where I was and continuing my route.
So this past Monday, I called in to see if I was working because I am a newer driver, still lower on the seniority list, and Monday's I am sometimes laid off for the day because it's slow and the volume is low. The office clerk gal answered the phone and said I was scheduled to work so to come on in. Upon arriving I went in the office and looked at the board and my name wasn't by any route and so I asked the same office clerk gal what route I was on and that's when my Center Manager and my own On-Car Supervisor (not the On-Car Sup who had been harassing me the whole time) swarmed around me and both stated I was NOT working but was needed in the Center Manager's office for a meeting immediately. And I was like great, here we go!
Before I went in though my shop steward (a great man) pulled me aside in private real quick and said they were going to try to terminate me for "stealing time." That's how they have to frame it, as theft, because you can't just come out and tell someone they have to clock out to use the bathroom. So my shop steward told me how the meeting would proceed and then we went in the Center Manager's office where my own On-Car Supervisor, the Center Manager, some Security Loss Prevention guy were waiting for us.
The meeting commences and the Security guy is doing all the talking and stated that him and my On-Car Supervisor were following me around Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday of the previous week (week of October 10th, 2016) and that they observed me "stealing time" these three days which they explain as "discrepancies in my timecard activities." So the Security guy is doing the questioning and he says on Tuesday we observed you going into Taco Bell at 2:20pm, yet you did not clock out until 2:30pm, can you explain this discrepancy in your timecard? To which I would say yes, there is no discrepancy in my timecard I was taking a
The HUGE kicker is that the week prior to when they were following me around (the week of October 3rd, 2016) they pulled me off the route I signed up for all week long and also ignored my 9.5 rights everyday so I ended up filing four grievances for seniority violations for pulling me off the route since I was the only one who signed up to cover the route in question for a driver on vacation and then I filed three more grievances for the three days I was forced to work more than 9.5 hours. So a total of seven grievances I filed and turned in on 10/10/16 at around 5pm. I came in in street clothes and turned them in because I was laid off that Monday. Then, less than 24 hours later, Tuesday 10/11/16 when I was working, this Security Loss Prevention guy and my On-Car Supervisor "randomly" decide to start following me around for the week to look for any wrongdoing? Yeah right!! This is so crystal clear that this is just continued intimidation, harassment and more retaliation.
But the meeting concludes with my Center Manager saying he is taking me out of service for "stealing time" and I will be issued a termination letter, which I will receive in the mail, and that I will have to turn in my browns.
So now I'm waiting for said termination letter and then the next step is a Center level hearing, followed by almost 100% sure another hearing in Seattle the 2nd week of November. I have complete confidence in my union rep and his ability to punch thousands of holes in their BS attempts to fire me but I'm still shocked at UPS' behavior.
I've never had a job where harassment, intimidation and retaliation was so blatant and sadistic. Any advice welcome.
KingofFluff
Well-Known Member
PT Car Washer
Well-Known Member
Usually the higher seniority employees head to the bathrooms 5 to 10 minutes before break is called. Most experienced managers know it is a battle not worth fighting.
You definitely don't need to give them a reason to look for other things. Try to fly under the radar.
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