OPL Liquidation Starting

Discussion in 'The Archives' started by longups, Mar 29, 2003.

  1. brownmonster

    brownmonster Guest

    I thought OPL looked like a tax dodging scam the minute I laid eyes on it. Glad I only have 50 shares. Didn't like the fact that we were forced to buy it but more than made up for it by snapping up a chunk of UPS stock when it became available to us working folk. Will continue to buy every week and maybe I can buy my own little tax haven island some day! Monster
  2. wvbrown

    wvbrown Guest

    And this ANR scandal that UPS OPL was envolved in... it sounds like the people that did this should go to jail.

    This is a false statement. UPS was found innocent by the Supreme Court and the 1.2 billion dollars in fines were dropped. We are all victims of one vindictive IRS employee. He is the one that needs to be sued or jailed !
  3. traveler

    traveler Guest

    Checks for my family arrived in the mail today, 4/12.
  4. okiebrownie

    okiebrownie Guest

    There was no fraud at OPL, the primary reason that UPS continued to fight the IRS opinion until they won. As a corporation that pays over a billion dollars (US) in taxes each year, there is no argument that UPS is different from so many of those companies that pay nothing, or little, on millions or even billions in revenue. I am sad to see OPL go for different reasons then I have seen mentioned here. They had become a fairly large player in the reinsurance field, the same business that Warren Buffet has such faith in. It was hit hard by huge losses after a number of natural disasters, and even impacted by terrorist acts, but that means they simply raise the premiums and many people, including Buffet, see boom years ahead for those that weather the storm. I wish they would have stuck it out. It could have been sucessful independent of UPS's excess value insurance, no doubt, but perhaps the board felt they were venturing too far from their core businesses. But anyone questioning the integrity of the board members is way off base. UPS has almost a century of making decisions based on "whats right", and that includes their financial transactions. Furthermore, I have never seen a company so intent on honesty- even in it's self audits. They may make it hard on the employees at times since it is so difficult to do well at times on internal audits, but the far bigger danger is to have a company that is lying to itself, essentially, by padding it's audit results. Those that do that are destined to bring about huge problems eventually, in a hundred ways, and may even destroy the entire corporation, as we have seen in the news repeatedly over the last year or two. Those employed in UPS mangement know that the surest road to truly being fired is to lie about "numbers," however inconsequential they are-or seem to be- at the time. That is as it should be, in my opinion.}
  5. brownmonster

    brownmonster Guest

    You mean the audits that everyone knows are coming and we practice everything and make sure it's perfect for that day? Overall I think Brown has more integrity than most corporations but we can't let them sit too high on their horse. What fun would that be?
  6. ups_vette

    ups_vette Guest

    If everyone knows that the audit is comming, why is it that packages not recorded, discrepencies in the number of pickup packages occur, packages are found left in building not recorded, and various other problem areas are discovered?
    My guess is people are creatures of habit and no matter how much advanced notice is given, people will make the same mistakes they do on a daily basis.
  7. brownmonster

    brownmonster Guest

    Vette, I agree and there also might be a little of "why should I make my boss look good?" My thinking is let's pass the audit and keep the well dressed clipboard holders out of the center and back doing something productive.
  8. hitthebigone

    hitthebigone Guest

    The posts on Yahoo are saying that we should not cash our OPL checks stating that we could be accepting the terms as though it were a legal settlement. The letter did not say enough for me. They are really trying to buy their way out of this. My check and letter are going to the lawyer.
  9. brownshirt

    brownshirt Guest

    The IRS were the ones that took OPL down. How about we file a class action lawsuit against them?
  10. wvbrown

    wvbrown Guest

    brownshirt count me in
  11. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    I would join that lawsuit.
  12. hitthebigone

    hitthebigone Guest

    The IRS does not have any money we can recover come on you guys rather than 5 payments of 2 bucks we can have about 240 dollars. Lets everybody talk to their lawyers. Time is running here . Eskew's Leadership has had time enough to act in a share swap with out envolving outside lawyers. We want what we should have had. These crooks took us.
  13. kidlogic

    kidlogic Guest

    does anyone but me find it odd that TIE on one post defends UPS as not being corrupt then on another post wants to sue them. Which is it???
    He is making me smile again!!!!
  14. charlie

    charlie Guest


    I believe tie is refering to the IRS and not UPS.

  15. kidlogic

    kidlogic Guest

    your right i stand corrected
  16. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

  17. hitthebigone

    hitthebigone Guest

    The class action OPL ANR scam is not just for hourlies many management people were duped and hoodwinked by their scamming superiors. What would really help is if some of the insiders will blow the whistle louder. Ethics is taking precendent over loyalty for a change. Come on you guys do the right thing! Your right tieguy sounded confused a bit.
  18. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    I believe the IRS abused their power. I believe the IRS would not have settled the case if they had any chance of winning. The IRS is not known for having a kind heart. How then do you hold that organization and its leaders accountable if you don't sue them.
  19. jackvette

    jackvette Guest

    Most people like to have someone to blame when things don't go the way they want. While its easy to blame UPS for the OPL losses, calling this a "scam" is inappropriate. Here is why I believe so:

    I think my facts are accurate. Let me know if they are wrong.

    About July 19, 1999 UPS announced it would go public. At that time no more UPS shares could be purchased.

    Anyone that was "forced" to buy OPL had to buy it prior to that date.

    Let's look at how OPL looked at that time. It was selling for $19.84. It had gwown 17% in the last year, and 39% over the last two. Everyone that I knew wanted to keep their OPL.

    Lets say that someone who was "forced" to buy didn't want OPL. They were free to sell. Again, no one wanted to because of its historical growth.

    About 3 weeks later, the IRS wins a court case against UPS. Shortly after that, OPL restricts selling shares.

    Again, anyone who was "forced" to buy OPL had at minimum 3 weeks to sell.

    I bought OPL at its height, and am sorry I lost on that deal. However, while I was "forced" to buy it, at least for some time I was not forced to keep it. Anyway, my overall investment (UPS and OPL) had done outstanding. The good far exceeds the bad.

  20. ups_vette

    ups_vette Guest

    jack, my fellow vette:
    Your post was right on. I retired during the buyout of '95. I turned 55 in May of that year with 32 years of UPS service and planned to retire in a year. With the buyout I received the equivelent of over a years pay, thus I retired at that time.
    In 1996 OPL recalled 10% of my holdings and another 10% in 1997. In 1998 rumors started circulating of an IRS investigation. These rumors were posted on various bulitin boards and newspapers.
    Being the wise investor that I am (JOKE), I thought it prudent to sell my remaining shares and deversify, which I did in late 1998.
    I believe anyone who watched their investments, paid attention to what was being said, and knew how vendictive the IRS is would have at the least considered deversifing.
    Not because of any merrit to the IRS inquiry, but due to the possible tie up of my OPL holdings. The courts proved my confidense in UPS and OPL being a lawfull business.
    I feel for those who, for whatever reasons, failed to deversify when allowed, and have suffered a loss through NO FAULT of UPS or OPL, rather the fault of the IRS and their greed.