OPL Liquidation Starting

[jackvette]

Vette (I guess we both appreciate a fine car):

Congratulations and thank you for a long a great career. I think we have some common friends. I don't know if we actually met before but I've heard your name from some close friends. They speak of you in high regard.

I heard about the IRS investigation for many years. Me however being lazy did not sell any of my OPL...

I know I could have, but thought the IRS would lose like they did so many cases before.

Oh well.

Again, thank you for your service.

Jack

 

[hitthebigone]

Lucky for you UPS Vette you proably got those OPL shares for pennies too. The rest of us were lied to and forced to buy the doomed stock and they knew it.

 

[hitthebigone]

Jack if you don't call OPL a scam what do you call it? Who would have a problem calling a manipulation by an employer to take employees assets freeze them for years, not allow a realized loss at their discretion, intice them into buying into another stock (ANR) and then send them 2 bucks a share out of the blue without legal explaination, a scam, a con, a fraud? Your years of loyalty are appriciated no doubt...don't let loyalty get in the way of ethics. There were no doubt people way above you that were agents of UPS engineering this scam. Restitution needs to be made and crooks punished so we can get on. This can not just be sweeped under the rug.

 

[badhab1]

They were fairly easy on you at the yahoo board but I suspect your silly babbling will not go so unchallenged here. JMHO

 

[hitthebigone]

badhab1, you might consider somebody's postings "silly babblings" but perhaps with all the recent downgrades of UPS stock there is evidence of some concern out there as to how the settlement to OPL employee shareholders will affect UPS shareprice.

 

[badhab1]

feel free to coherently explain to me how the opl runoff will effect UPS stock price. You have continued on Yahoo until no one even responds to you any more. Going for a double?

 

[upscorpis]

Your inference about the relationship of "the settlement to OPL employee shareholders" and downgrades is a pretty large leap . If that was a real concern, any downgrade analysis would mention it. Can you produce anything that refers to that issue in the context of a stock downgrade?

I can remember a lot of people saying things like, "I wish I could buy just OPL". The idea that people were duped is absurd, especially in light of the fact that the stock could have been sold well in advance of the current freeze. I see your arguments as backfitting past occurrences to fit your scenario.

There is risk in owning any stock. The chain of events that led to OPL's demise was not 100% predictable. Just remember, the same people you're accusing of deceit had more OPL shares than the average shareholder. How do you account for them making immoral decisions that could lead to realizing such a personal loss?

The UPS/OPL type of relationship was not and still is not unique. Check this link: http://www.bermuda-online.org/insurebm.htm . What UPS did was and still is common practice for insurers. UPS didn't invent this business model. It was copied from other insurance companies. I can recall reading often about how the UPS/OPL case was a watershed case that had the entire insurance industry's attention due to the implications. Because of this, I chose to hold much of my OPL, thinking that if UPS lost, then too many other companies would have also been running a scam. The fact that I held the majority of my investment was my choice. I've yet to see the entire result of that choice by the way.

I view the $2.00 distribution as a response to the concerns many shareholders have expressed to the locked up nature of their investment. I see it as a positive attempt to allay those concerns. The last chapter of this book is not yet written. I feel it's a bit premature to close the book and pass final judgement. Drawing conclusions about others' intentions and crying for justice without substantive facts is tantamount to a witch hunt.

 

[ups_vette]

hitthebigone:
You're actually correct in ONE area of the outrageous malicious claims you make. I did get some of my OPL shares for pennies, 25 pennies to be exact.
However for the other claims, you really need to have your doctor increase the dosage of your medications.
As I've mentioned before on this board, noone was FORCED to purchas OPL stock. The purchase of OPL was required IF you wished to purchase shares of UPS stock. You were under NO OBLIGATION to purchase UPS stock, the decision to do so was yours alone. If you didn't want the OPL shares, you could have refused to go thru with the ENTIRE transaction, but you didn't.
Please answer these questions. What was the total amount you invested for the UPS and OPL shares? What is he total value of your UPS and OPL shares today? Hummmmmm, let me guess. Would it be fair to say you've increased the total value of your investment?
Had you been keeping your eyes on your investment, and paying attention, you could have sold your OPL shares BEFORE the lockup. You remimd me of the person who fills their car with gas, never checks the gas gage, drives for miles, passing gas station after gas station and finally runs out of gas. It wasn't his fault the car ran out of gas, it has to be the fault of someone else. Perhaps it was the Honda he was driving, blame Honda.
As for your claim that you invested in ARN because OPL purchased shares of this company and OPL must reimburst you for following their investment decisions, are you really that easily lead? Do you do NO research of your own? If that be the case, it's sad that you blame everything that goes wrong on another and take no personal
responsibility.

 

[hitthebigone]

Vette, You said it yourself, only you called it "required". Call it what you want if you wanted to finally own a stake in what you busted balls for years for, you had to, as you recognize buy the OPL stock. This prerequisite condition apparantly was justified by its creators that were pulling the scam as a sort of consideration cost that those purchasers at the time would have to pay for being offered or afforded the opportunity to buy UPS shares prior to the IPO
The sucess of the UPS shares dosn't in its self give justification for UPS allowing its agents to rip off this class of OPL and ANR shareholders. The accounting money trail and the names of the people envolved with UPS OPL and ANR are the simple the facts that will bring restitution through the courts. It would have been much preffered if Eskew had just done a stock swap.
You might have thought it prudent in lieu of all the attention for the likes of other crooked scams ENrons Worldcoms etc.

 

[ups_vette]

hitthebigone:
Finally you admited it. In your own words, you're a BALL BUSTER. You confessed to busting UPSs balls for years. Now, doesn't that make you feel better. The entire board now knows of your intentions.
You haven't answered my question. How much has your investment gained? It's hard to feel sorry for someone who doubled his total investmment, even someone as uneducated as you are in financial matters.
But being the ball buster you are (your words), your only remedy is to find a like thinking companion on a bullitin board, hoping to gain support for your outrageous unfounded claims.
May I suggest you change the 1st part of your name (hit) to
SUCK, which would be accurate
in your case.

 

[wvbrown]

hitthebigone You could have sold the OPL stock the day after you were "required" to purchase it so you could finally own a stake in what you busted balls for years for. Maybe it's track record looked to good to sell. For what ever the reason you made the choice. I made the choice not to sell also. The down fall was due to the IRS and we have to live with it. Be happy you have had a good job for all these years.

 

[ups_vette]

vwbrown:
You make an excellent point. SUCKthebigone could have sold his OPL shares the day after he aquired them, and for some time after. Why do you think he didn't, if he didn't want them? Could it be GREED? The same GREED he now claims was FRAUD
As for his "non required" purchase of ARN stock, could that also been motivated by GREED? If OPL thinks it's a good investment, he thinks the same, since he has no original thoughts for himself. He's just a poor lil lamb being lead down the road. Personal responsibility has no meaning to him. For him, it's easier to blame others than to admit he made a mistake. Life must be nice in his little make believe world of no responsibility.

 

[hitthebigone]

Looks like I really hit a nerve with the good ol' "yes men and boys". I guess it is somewhat expected to turn to offence when the truth is going to burn you (them) and yours that went along with the scam casting ethics aside.
There was a brief time that a OPL share holder could sell 10 % of their shares in a year period but that didn't last long and it was never permitted that anyone could sell all their OPL shares.
Oh and your right the track record of OPL at the time was impressive. The position is that the peritrators new the track record shortcomings and us that didn't know did suck the big one as we had no knowledge of the authorites forcing the changes at OPL. Have a great day!

 

[ups_vette]

thebigone:
I'm begining to admire you for your honesty. Admitting you suck the big one took a lot of courage.
So, now we now (your spelling of know) that you're a ball busting, suck the big one, greedy, uneducated in financial matters person who doesn't now (your spelling of know) what they are talking about.
That brief time you mentioned of only allowed to sell 10% of OPL stock and never allowed to sell all is completely incorrect. The 10% you refered to was the amount FORMER EMPLOYES were REQUIRED to sell back each year. That brief period lasted from 1984 to 1999 for all former employees. As for not being allowed to sell all your holdings, you should check your sources, because I sold all my remaining holdings in 1998, which were 70% of the holdings I had when I retired, after 3 10% recalls.
The next time you post something as fact, remember, the people reading your posts have far more knowledge (or should I say nowledge) than you about this subject.

 

[dannyboy]

HEy bigun

If I would have had the opertunity at the time to buy nothing but OPL, I would not own any UPS stock now. But I had to buy four shares of UPS to get one share of OPL. Now why do you think that was???????? Cause OPL was the way to make the real money. IT grew faster and made more money than UPS stock ever did. So quit crying to me or the rest that have been here a while. You wanted it as bad, and now you are blaming someone for your greed.

As to a "scam" let me give you a story that might help a bit, since you seem limited in your understanding of what went on.

In our area there was a bar you could go to and see women dancing in the nearly nude, or nude. Never had a place like this in our area before, and the city fathers didnt like it much. So they decided that that type of business should be outlawed. They changed some of the laws and regulations in an attempt to put them out of business.

Now the owner of the establishment went out of his way to follow all the guidelines and laws that applied to the business. He crossed every T and dotted every I, they were all over him trying to find where he did something illegal. Couldnt find a thing. Then they changed the laws to where you could not serve alcohol with nude dancing. HE took them to court and the court found that they only reason for the city to have changed the law was to put him out of business and not that the city wanted to stop nude dancing.

This is kinda what UPS has gone through. The IRS changed rules in the middle of the stream. IS it UPS's fault? Dont think so. They were just LEGALLY taking funds and sheltering them where stockholders could make a goodly bit of money. I made some, and probably you did too. And you didnt complain then. Now that the investment is loosing money, you blame others for your problem? Grow up. UPS did nothing wrong, except that it did not let hourly like me take advantage of getting in on the act earlier.

Stocks go up and they go down. You just happened to get one that hit the dumper. Learn from it. If that is the worst you get hurt holding stock, be thankful, very very thankful.

I also know of at least one UPSer that sold all his OPL and made himself very close to a millionaire. Pity he died shortly after and could not enjoy it, but it left his wife and two children very comfortable.

d

(Message edited by dannyboy on April 24, 2003)

 

[longups]

Another factor in the profitability to shareholders of OPL in the "good ol' days" was its dividend!

If you had OPL in the beginning at $0.25 your dividend in 1998 was $1.40 (if I remember correctly.) That is a nice return of 560% per year (no not 5.6 % but 5.6 times your investment!)
If you bought it at $21.00 the dividend was still a very respectable 6.666% or you could remember it as a return of capital just like this months liquidating dividend.

All-in-all OPL was not bad. We just like to think that the bad guys (the IRS) spoiled the party!

 

[tieguy]

In fact I wish they would reinstate the OPL system even if they do end up paying taxes on it.

 

[steamheat]

Hey ups vette,

people who live in glass houses...........


deceite (your spelling of deceit)
referin (your spelling of referring)
betteroff ( your spelling of better off)
legidiment ( your spelling of legitimate)


all in one short post
#62 in Questionable Management

 

[hitthebigone]

Steamed...Right you are. It always seems that when somebody knows they are on the losing side of an arguement they will pursue with something like spelling...whatever.