Stupid arguments about the Ground business model

[falcon back]

He spent 10 years going through high school so he just assumes he should be proud of it.

My GED got me the same job you had. I made more money and retired with a bigger pension. Doesn't say much for your skill level. Sad

 

[bacha29]

Ya got me. It varied by zip code back then. If you knew how the game is played you could get your core zone payment increased. That was a flat rate you got daily to cover unique circumstances of the zip code. My guess is Bacha wasn’t very good at playing that game to get his core zone up to an adequate level to make good money. Engineers don’t like truck drivers telling them how stupid they are for their trips to the FedEx mind control and re-education camps.

By your own admission you're only going to be offered a certain amount of money period and it is up to you to decide how you want it slotted. So in turn it contradicts whatever claims of contractor leverage you might make.

 

[bacha29]

The economy runs on fossil fuels. Looks like he's well on his way to changing that.

For the time being but if anyone thinks Big Oil is going to continue to call the energy shots long term , take a look at how their stocks have fared. The only thing that is really slowing EV development seems to evolve around the current limited range of road tractors. Nevertheless, Fat Freddy is taking a keen interest in EV's and robots all with the clear intent of eliminating as much human involvement in his company going forward.

 

[bacha29]

On a per truck basis it’s cheaper to maintain 10 trucks than 1. Where are you getting lost?

Sure, if the opportunity to run 10 trucks is available in the terminal without exceeding the maximum 30% of the total. Sorry to tell you this pal but the whole damn world is not one great big city. The largest incorporated borough in the area i worked in was 6,000 people but was surrounded by 480 miles of RD carrier mileage and was even more sparsely populated.

 

[It will be fine]

Sure, if the opportunity to run 10 trucks is available in the terminal without exceeding the maximum 30% of the total. Sorry to tell you this pal but the whole damn world is not one great big city. The largest incorporated borough in the area i worked in was 6,000 people but was surrounded by 480 miles of RD carrier mileage and was even more sparsely populated.

There’s nothing limiting a contractor to one terminal. Rural terminals can and do get away with ignoring scale guidelines for successful contractors. Hundreds of rural contractors operate profitably every year.

The fact remains it’s cheaper per unit to maintain multiple trucks than only one. You could have passed those savings on to the drivers in your terminal. Instead you sucked them in to a deal you thought was terrible so you wouldn’t have to work as hard.

 

[dmac1]

A larger scale lowers the cost to maintain a single vehicle. Had you built a business and hired drivers you could have paid them more than they’d net as a single van contractor. You didn’t do anyone any favors giving work away all those years.

I had the max routes the terminal allowed, clown, and the limits they placed were the reason I was dissatisfied I won my cases against fedex, and was glad to walk away. Unlike you, I didn't want to or need to put up with their BS. They weren't following the contract they signed.
I had 4 trucks, 3 full time, and one 3/4 time drivers and when another contract became available, they told me I was already past the limit on the number of routes they would allow for a small terminal. I had been promised unlimited potential, which was clearly a lie, and with the limit, it was literally the economy of scale I had been counting on to be able to pay my drivers what they were worth. My drivers earned a MINIMUM of $12 an hour, and $18 an hour for overtime in an area where log truck drivers were making $9 an hour, and minimum wage was ~$8 an hour.

I knew from the start, after running delivery vehicles for almost 20 years before that, that I needed at LEAST 5 contracted routes and have 7-8 drivers ready to go. Fedex literally made it impossible for me to run the business they way I wanted to run it, based on information they never disclosed that directly contradicted promises made.

And I did have rural areas and still managed a profit on those routes, but barely, but I knew that going in. But when you expect and are promised 'unlimited' growth potential, you can plan making a larger profit through growth. When suddenly that growth potential is not just slowed, but eliminated, suddenly, it is time to move on, which I did.

It had NOTHING to do with inability to run a business, and why your posts denigrating everyone who disagrees with you as a failure prove your ignorance. Lack of knowledge of the facts is your ignorance, and you are clearly not bright enough to know that you are making ignorant statements without having all the facts. FEDEX failed, not me.

 

[It will be fine]

I had the max routes the terminal allowed, clown, and the limits they placed were the reason I was dissatisfied I won my cases against fedex, and was glad to walk away. Unlike you, I didn't want to or need to put up with their BS. They weren't following the contract they signed.
I had 4 trucks, 3 full time, and one 3/4 time drivers and when another contract became available, they told me I was already past the limit on the number of routes they would allow for a small terminal. I had been promised unlimited potential, which was clearly a lie, and with the limit, it was literally the economy of scale I had been counting on to be able to pay my drivers what they were worth. My drivers earned a MINIMUM of $12 an hour, and $18 an hour for overtime in an area where log truck drivers were making $9 an hour, and minimum wage was ~$8 an hour.

I knew from the start, after running delivery vehicles for almost 20 years before that, that I needed at LEAST 5 contracted routes and have 7-8 drivers ready to go. Fedex literally made it impossible for me to run the business they way I wanted to run it, based on information they never disclosed that directly contradicted promises made.

And I did have rural areas and still managed a profit on those routes, but barely, but I knew that going in. But when you expect and are promised 'unlimited' growth potential, you can plan making a larger profit through growth. When suddenly that growth potential is not just slowed, but eliminated, suddenly, it is time to move on, which I did.

It had NOTHING to do with inability to run a business, and why your posts denigrating everyone who disagrees with you as a failure prove your ignorance. Lack of knowledge of the facts is your ignorance, and you are clearly not bright enough to know that you are making ignorant statements without having all the facts. FEDEX failed, not me.

How many trucks cover the area you abandoned now? I’m guessing there’s been a lot of growth in the last 15 years.

Considering you sued FedEx, I’ll assume you weren’t very good at getting along with corporate like Bacha. I find it strange that people that are angry and combative are surprised when people don’t work with them for mutual gain. You can blame FedEx all you like, but I’d guess a contractor that was better at politics would have had a better outcome.

 

[dmac1]

There’s nothing limiting a contractor to one terminal. Rural terminals can and do get away with ignoring scale guidelines for successful contractors. Hundreds of rural contractors operate profitably every year.

The fact remains it’s cheaper per unit to maintain multiple trucks than only one. You could have passed those savings on to the drivers in your terminal. Instead you sucked them in to a deal you thought was terrible so you wouldn’t have to work as hard.

And fedex with thousands of vehicles will someday easily undercut you.

And it was people like me that made fedex change, and at the time, the 30% limit was strict, and you could not own both ground and HD, and could NOT operate out of multiple terminal, if that evenwould have made financial sense. When I left, two of the three contractors who took over my areas were terminated for failure to service, and they ended up with a whole terminal full of unhappy contractors when the other 12 contractor all had workload added that I had been taking.

Even 4 trucks covering 3 routes and taking workload off other contractors offered some economy of scale, that was lost when I left. I was able to have been taking part of many of the other contractors service areas to make my routes profitable. According to fedex's management plan, terminal volume didn't justify more contacted routes and fedex fired the manager and at least 4 contractors over the next year, when I quit following what was going on in that terminal..

With me gone, the other contractors had to each cover more area, and the supplemental truck I was making at least break even, was not profitable for a single route contractor without as much flexibility that comes from just covering more square miles. The terminal manager even got fired - whether for having a completely disgruntled workforce, or for the terminal's service failure rate more than tripling after I left, I don't know. But you saying that people who are unhappy with fedex are failures is just idiotic. And someone who makes idiotic statements seems like an idiot a lot of the time.

The two closest terminals in my case were 170 miles in one direction, and 110 in the opposite. That alone makes operating in multiple terminals almost impossible, even if with enough volume, it might be possible.

 

[dmac1]

How many trucks cover the area you abandoned now? I’m guessing there’s been a lot of growth in the last 15 years.

Considering you sued FedEx, I’ll assume you weren’t very good at getting along with corporate like Bacha. I find it strange that people that are angry and combative are surprised when people don’t work with them for mutual gain. You can blame FedEx all you like, but I’d guess a contractor that was better at politics would have had a better outcome.

It took 3 new contractors, and 6 of the other contractors all taking on more work to cover what I was doing. 2 of the three contractors- who had been my drivers- were fired within 3 months, the terminal manager was fired in ~6 months. At least two other contractors walked away when they had to run in areas I had been covering which made their routes less profitable. I don't care about what is happening now. But I do know that contractors are no more independent now that back then. In fact, they are subject to even more control over how they run their business, and whether a contractor is really independent is the theme of this thread.

Politics has nothing to do with it. I simply was not going to run an operation which was not as agreed, and where kissing ass was a requirement. Some people like you are good at, and actually seem to enjoy getting their nose deep into the brown. All I wanted was to be left alone to be able to do my job, and when it was clear that I was never going to get what I was promised, I was ready to go. I didn't get into it to make a strictly limited profit. I left, took my money, and turned it into profit in real estate, And though I had had rental properties for years it had been a side income. Without fedex I was able to make it full time, and never looked back. You might notice that I don't feel any need to come here every day, and check and respond to every statement. I check in out of habit, and when I see something stupid posted, respond, which is why I am responding now. And I might respond to 4-5 things at one sitting, but then I am done until the next day, or 2-3 days.

Trying to claim that I am angry at fedex just shows how much you put your own inner thoughts into it, as I have never said I am angry at fedex. Until about 3 years ago, I followed fedex to keep up on the lawsuits. Now, it is habit, and I feel it is kind of a moral duty to point out to others the folly of investing ANY money in fedex. If you can get a route for free, or for the value of the assets, plus maybe a % of annual profit, it might be okay as a job. But needing to pay people low wages just so I can make a living isn;t for me.

I think that people who think they have a real business that can last without fedex are just stupid, and some proudly prove it every day. All they have is a job, acting as a manager for fedex, with no control over their own business. Clowns that claim everyone who thinks fedex is a joke of a company are losers or failures are really just so wrapped up in the trees that they can't see the forest. And advising anyone that it is a good business to get into is at best self serving, and at worst putting other peoples' financial well being at unnecessary risk. There are a lot better ways to make more money than investing thousands of dollars into fedex to be allowed to work for them.

 

[It will be fine]

It took 3 new contractors, and 6 of the other contractors all taking on more work to cover what I was doing. 2 of the three contractors- who had been my drivers- were fired within 3 months, the terminal manager was fired in ~6 months. At least two other contractors walked away when they had to run in areas I had been covering which made their routes less profitable. I don't care about what is happening now. But I do know that contractors are no more independent now that back then. In fact, they are subject to even more control over how they run their business, and whether a contractor is really independent is the theme of this thread.

Politics has nothing to do with it. I simply was not going to run an operation which was not as agreed, and where kissing ass was a requirement. Some people like you are good at, and actually seem to enjoy getting their nose deep into the brown. All I wanted was to be left alone to be able to do my job, and when it was clear that I was never going to get what I was promised, I was ready to go. I didn't get into it to make a strictly limited profit. I left, took my money, and turned it into profit in real estate, And though I had had rental properties for years it had been a side income. Without fedex I was able to make it full time, and never looked back. You might notice that I don't feel any need to come here every day, and check and respond to every statement. I check in out of habit, and when I see something stupid posted, respond, which is why I am responding now. And I might respond to 4-5 things at one sitting, but then I am done until the next day, or 2-3 days.

Trying to claim that I am angry at fedex just shows how much you put your own inner thoughts into it, as I have never said I am angry at fedex. Until about 3 years ago, I followed fedex to keep up on the lawsuits. Now, it is habit, and I feel it is kind of a moral duty to point out to others the folly of investing ANY money in fedex. If you can get a route for free, or for the value of the assets, plus maybe a % of annual profit, it might be okay as a job. But needing to pay people low wages just so I can make a living isn;t for me.

I think that people who think they have a real business that can last without fedex are just stupid, and some proudly prove it every day. All they have is a job, acting as a manager for fedex, with no control over their own business. Clowns that claim everyone who thinks fedex is a joke of a company are losers or failures are really just so wrapped up in the trees that they can't see the forest. And advising anyone that it is a good business to get into is at best self serving, and at worst putting other peoples' financial well being at unnecessary risk. There are a lot better ways to make more money than investing thousands of dollars into fedex to be allowed to work for them.

That’s a long block of text that doesn’t answer a simple question. How many trucks cover the area you abandoned now?

 

[bacha29]

There’s nothing limiting a contractor to one terminal. Rural terminals can and do get away with ignoring scale guidelines for successful contractors. Hundreds of rural contractors operate profitably every year.

The fact remains it’s cheaper per unit to maintain multiple trucks than only one. You could have passed those savings on to the drivers in your terminal. Instead you sucked them in to a deal you thought was terrible so you wouldn’t have to work as hard.

Pal over a 23 year period I had a total of 5 days off. 1 for a funeral 1 for an out patient procedure 1 for being out of hours and I couldn't cheat my way out of it 1 when we didn't even have enough volume to send a 3 of us out and 1 where the terminal manager said "i want you to take the day off to get some rest. You're out to late at night". And of those 23 years nearly 6 were spent running 6 days a week year round. Once again pal, I wouldn't stoop to sending somebody else out to do a job I wouldn't do myself.

What I cannot seem to get through your thick head is that in areas serviced by a rural terminal not every sector in that geographical area is profitable territory .

Yes, we know all about the economy of scale but what you don't understand is that while you could put on more trucks you are basing your contention of the dumb assumption that every one of those additional trucks will be profitably operated. That's not the case in rural areas. Not even close. In addition due to the high mileage and harsh operating conditions where most of that mileage is incurred running on dirt unpaved surfaces comprised mostly of field stone they're junk in 3 years.

And as for expanding into other terminals. I my area the nearest one was a nearly 2 hour drive along with a 99.99% probability of what was available would be more of the same.

 

[It will be fine]

Pal over a 23 year period I had a total of 5 days off. 1 for a funeral 1 for an out patient procedure 1 for being out of hours and I couldn't cheat my way out of it 1 when we didn't even have enough volume to send a 3 of us out and 1 where the terminal manager said "i want you to take the day off to get some rest. You're out to late at night". And of those 23 years nearly 6 were spent running 6 days a week year round. Once again pal, I wouldn't stoop to sending somebody else out to do a job I wouldn't do myself.

What I cannot seem to get through your thick head is that in areas serviced by a rural terminal not every sector in that geographical area is profitable territory .

Yes, we know all about the economy of scale but what you don't understand is that while you could put on more trucks you are basing your contention of the dumb assumption that every one of those additional trucks will be profitably operated. That's not the case in rural areas. Not even close. In addition due to the high mileage and harsh operating conditions where most of that mileage is incurred running on dirt unpaved surfaces comprised mostly of field stone they're junk in 3 years.

And as for expanding into other terminals. I my area the nearest one was a nearly 2 hour drive along with a 99.99% probability of what was available would be more of the same.

I send trucks out that aren’t profitable every day. It’s part of the business. I know contractors that own routes across the country from where they live, I don’t know why you think a 2 hour drive is an impossible obstacle to overcome.

 

[bacha29]

It took 3 new contractors, and 6 of the other contractors all taking on more work to cover what I was doing. 2 of the three contractors- who had been my drivers- were fired within 3 months, the terminal manager was fired in ~6 months. At least two other contractors walked away when they had to run in areas I had been covering which made their routes less profitable. I don't care about what is happening now. But I do know that contractors are no more independent now that back then. In fact, they are subject to even more control over how they run their business, and whether a contractor is really independent is the theme of this thread.

Politics has nothing to do with it. I simply was not going to run an operation which was not as agreed, and where kissing ass was a requirement. Some people like you are good at, and actually seem to enjoy getting their nose deep into the brown. All I wanted was to be left alone to be able to do my job, and when it was clear that I was never going to get what I was promised, I was ready to go. I didn't get into it to make a strictly limited profit. I left, took my money, and turned it into profit in real estate, And though I had had rental properties for years it had been a side income. Without fedex I was able to make it full time, and never looked back. You might notice that I don't feel any need to come here every day, and and respond to every statement. I in out of habit, and when I see something stupid posted, respond, which is why I am responding now. And I might respond to 4-5 things at one sitting, but then I am done until the next day, or 2-3 days.

Trying to claim that I am angry at fedex just shows how much you put your own inner thoughts into it, as I have never said I am angry at fedex. Until about 3 years ago, I followed fedex to keep up on the lawsuits. Now, it is habit, and I feel it is kind of a moral duty to point out to others the folly of investing ANY money in fedex. If you can get a route for free, or for the value of the assets, plus maybe a % of annual profit, it might be okay as a job. But needing to pay people low wages just so I can make a living isn;t for me.

I think that people who think they have a real business that can last without fedex are just stupid, and some proudly prove it every day. All they have is a job, acting as a manager for fedex, with no control over their own business. Clowns that claim everyone who thinks fedex is a joke of a company are losers or failures are really just so wrapped up in the trees that they can't see the . And advising anyone that it is a good business to get into is at best self serving, and at worst putting other peoples' financial well being at unnecessary risk. There are a lot better ways to make more money than investing thousands of dollars into fedex to be allowed to work for them.

Man you just absolutely nailed it. I too strive to make it clear to interested parties that the most shocking revelations they would soon discover is that you can expect to be cuffed around and slapped around in a manner identical to an ordinary easily replaced employee with total disregard for the fact that you were asked to put your own money into the effort. The have zero respect for the fact that you have money in it. That along with the fact that as a multi route operator everything will rest on your ability to find somebody willing to work their damn fool heads off for embarrassing bottom feeder wages and nothing else. And once word of that work place reality spreads and no word spreads faster than word of mouth and no place does word of mouth itself spread faster than a small town the harder it becomes to find replacements

And if you cannot find that person and there's no guarantee you will then it's lights out for you.

I send trucks out that aren’t profitable every day. It’s part of the business. I know contractors that own routes across the country from where they live, I don’t know why you think a 2 hour drive is an impossible obstacle to overcome.

And what % of your total are not profitable.? Every one of your thoughts and opinions are based on a favorable volume, a favorable SPH a favorable operating environment where you're not replacing worn out trucks in 3 years and most favorable of all where all you're doing is the easy in town stuff. Why do you think Bezos is still dumping his boonie boxes off onto the USPS the carrier of the last resort? Why did Fat Freddy quit hauling it altogether? There's no damn money in it that's why.

So if you want to sit there on your fat ass all day, fine by me. And if you have time to spend making other groups of people believe that what you have is a self created independently self directed enterprise that's fine if you can find somebody dumb enough to believe you..... But, this is one place where you won't find them.

 

[59 Dano]

And you're just like him. Another it's all about "me.me me".

Good to know you'll spend more time dancing around the issue instead of saying whatever it is, which is probably something along the lines of "It really wasn't all that bad" or "I wasn't smart enough for anything else" but you just can't bring yourself to admit it.

 

[59 Dano]

I find it strange that people that are angry and combative are surprised when people don’t work with them for mutual gain.

I find it hilarious. They can take a breath, play along, and benefit or they can make a federal case out of everything and gain nothing. They choose the latter because they don't play games/don't give in/aren't into politics.

 

[It will be fine]

I find it hilarious. They can take a breath, play along, and benefit or they can make a federal case out of everything and gain nothing. They choose the latter because they don't play games/don't give in/aren't into politics.

I’m not sure they really understand how much money they threw away for their false sense of righteousness.

 

[dmac1]

That’s a long block of text that doesn’t answer a simple question. How many trucks cover the area you abandoned now?

You really can't read???? I said I no longer pay attention to the terminal. I really don't care, and it makes no difference without knowing the volume.

For all I know, they may have added more terminals both north, south, and west as well. I had 3 routes, all rural, one going as far as 100 miles with an average over 350 miles per day, from the terminal, one going ~40 with maybe 150 miles per day,, and one going about 80 with close to 300 miles total. The other truck usually ran anything from 40- 150 miles total per day. I had learned how to manipulate core zone pay long before, with my 3 contracted routes at $95, $112, and $125 per day. Each driver worked alternate 4 and 5 day weeks, with me splitting up most of the supplemental work with another part time driver, and driving a full route 1-2 times per week

I also moved 1000 miles away to be closer to family so even less concern about whatever is now going on in that terminal.. I did answer your question, you just have low comprehension.

 

[It will be fine]

You really can't read???? I said I no longer pay attention to the terminal. I really don't care, and it makes no difference without knowing the volume.

For all I know, they may have added more terminals both north, south, and west as well. I had 3 routes, all rural, one going as far as 100 miles with an average over 350 miles per day, from the terminal, one going ~40 with maybe 150 miles per day,, and one going about 80 with close to 300 miles total. The other truck usually ran anything from 40- 150 miles total per day. I had learned how to manipulate core zone pay long before, with my 3 contracted routes at $95, $112, and $125 per day. Each driver worked alternate 4 and 5 day weeks, with me splitting up most of the supplemental work with another part time driver, and driving a full route 1-2 times per week

I also moved 1000 miles away to be closer to family so even less concern about whatever is now going on in that terminal.. I did answer your question, you just have low comprehension.

Actually you rambled like a crazy person with apparent knowledge of who was hired and fired in the terminal after you left. You claimed to know how the contractors that replaced you faired. You could have answered, “I’m not sure.”

Lashing out in anger at me doesn’t make you seem knowledgeable, it just demonstrates you make decisions with emotion rather than logic. You lost far more money in your lawsuit than you would have gained by building the business and working with FedEx instead of against it.

 

[dmac1]

I’m not sure they really understand how much money they threw away for their false sense of righteousness.

I made more money by leaving and investing my money in more profitable, less labor intensive work. My first deal was buying a rural property, selling the timber, and then reselling for a little more than I paid, all in less than seven months. That took $14,000 cash and an owner carry mtg. I did NO physical work. Sold $91,000 worth of timber. Taxes ate up some, but I cleared close to $50k profit in 7 months. Paid a timber manager out of the profit who gave me a free bid BEFORE I decided to buy the property. Next was a run down 5 unit apartment building that with some cosmetics- paint, carpeting, new appliances, I doubled the property value by being able to charge higher rents, and the rents more than covered the cost of the mtg, maintenance, and most of the repairs/improvements. About all I did for those was some interior painting and flooring. My total out of pocket was $20k cash, and the property went up by almost $200k. Now I'm retired, with very low mtg and a steady income from my investments. I occasionally need to make a decision when a tenant moves out of one of my rentals maybe once every 2 years.

Your problem is that you think you are smarter than you are, but not smart enough to recognize how little you know. I'd guess your IQ is just a hair below average, and you think having a near 100 IQ means you are smart. But IQ is not measured on a 1-100 scale, like a math test, so 100 is just average, and the average person like you is not very smart- just barely average.

 

[It will be fine]

I made more money by leaving and investing my money in more profitable, less labor intensive work. My first deal was buying a rural property, selling the timber, and then reselling for a little more than I paid, all in less than seven months. That took $14,000 cash and an owner carry mtg. I did NO physical work. Sold $91,000 worth of timber. Taxes ate up some, but I cleared close to $50k profit in 7 months. Paid a timber manager out of the profit who gave me a free bid BEFORE I decided to buy the property. Next was a run down 5 unit apartment building that with some cosmetics- paint, carpeting, new appliances, I doubled the property value by being able to charge higher rents, and the rents more than covered the cost of the mtg, maintenance, and most of the repairs/improvements. About all I did for those was some interior painting and flooring. My total out of pocket was $20k cash, and the property went up by almost $200k. Now I'm retired, with very low mtg and a steady income from my investments. I occasionally need to make a decision when a tenant moves out of one of my rentals maybe once every 2 years.

Your problem is that you think you are smarter than you are, but not smart enough to recognize how little you know. I'd guess your IQ is just a hair below average, and you think having a near 100 IQ means you are smart. But IQ is not measured on a 1-100 scale, like a math test, so 100 is just average, and the average person like you is not very smart- just barely average.

Oh another personal attack, I’m shocked! I can’t imagine why you flamed out when you had to work well with other people to be successful.