The Runner Gunner Lunch Skippers are HATING the new DOT lunch rule

['Lord Brown's bidding']

This is the same kind of locker room lawyering you were using to justify exceeding the speed limit in that other thread. You really think that if a violation is reported to the DOT they are going to ask the driver if it was "ok with him" to work through his 30 minute break? And that will make it all ok? Seriously?

Jones, have you ever been pulled over by a cop, only to be told to slow down? I often have cops giving me the eye to back off a couple mph; instead of doing 70 in the 55, now I drop to 65 in the 55, but they don't pull me over. I once drove around an unmarked on his right onto the shoulder of the rode when he delayed in responding to a green light, basically making an illegal pass. I tried to excuse myself, when all he wanted me to say was I wrong and I wouldn't do it again. When he told me as much, I finally woke up, and drove away with a lecture, but no ticket. Most cops DON'T want to ticket a person, just be respectful. (BTW, none of this occurs in a UPS vehicle).

Many here are beginning to wonder if this law really meant for package at all, although it applies to us. Is UPS drivers sorting during their break periods causing a mass epidemic of tired drivers crashing or spinning off the road, that they must hunt down as many as they can!??! No. Shoot, I've heard from drivers busted by the FAA with their bulkhead doors open (that law, unlike this one, is meant specifically for Package cars), and they got off with a warning.

Unless a large rash of incidents that can be directly tied to UPSers sorting in the back of their cars happens, making it a big safety issue, for the most part nothing will change. Couple guys may get dinged, bu it will be more about some small bureaucrat making a display of his authority rather than safety, the same as a trooper who pulls A car over in a group of cars going 5 mph over ain't thinking about safety, so much as his county's coffers...

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

And no, I do not sort off the clock or during my lunch. It has been suggested by my mgmt before, and i haven't taken it, and they acknowledge my right not to, nor do they hold it against me.

 

[brownmonster]

I might have on occasion moved a few boxes around in my truck whilst reading the USA Today and eating a sandwich. Pretty sure the DOT has bigger fish to fry.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

We must agree to disagree,as information given to us during the PCM every day last week gave the impression the DOT is very very interested in auditing records for Lunch Violations.

With Telematics recording every move the Package car makes,and UPS being such a huge cash target for the DOT I think audits by the DOT will be VERY frequent

728, they may be interested in auditing records; UPS is making sure we follow through on that part. And it doesn't take much thought to realize if I put in a 30 min lunch but also show work for that time UPS may come after me for leaving them open to sanctions. However, there are too many big rig drivers out there (and maybe some smaller outfits as well) where it is too easy to do some really egregious things, akin to delivering while "taking lunch", versus TOUCHING a box while on break, which the record won't show, which can't be proven unless directly observed, and if observed can be clearly seen to be not dangerous at all, in that sorting the truck doesn't tire a driver out, for the most part. You can exert more enrgy reading the sports section if you know the route well enough (putting stops is sequence is a whole lot easier than figuring out why the Phillies brought Darin Ruf back up to fill in for Howard, or what took so long in the first place to IR Howard).

They aren't looking for that, and even if they stumbled across it, they know it isn't the dangerous condition the law is meant to stop, provided the driver isn't "compelled" to do so, which is why I believe they may ask some questions to see what the driver is up to, and why. I move boxes around sometimes to clear space for me to lay out on my truck floor. Have I "broken the law"? Yes. Does the DOT care? No.

 

[Bubblehead]

Many here are beginning to wonder if this law was really meant for package at all.

It wasn't, much like the "new cell phone rules" weren't for package car drivers.
Follow the money people,...and the liability!!!
It's always about the money, nothing else.
It's about plausible deniability.

The runner/gunners are being played more now than ever before.
​WAKE UP MORONS!!!

 

[PT Car Washer]

And no, I do not sort off the clock or during my lunch. It has been suggested by my mgmt before, and i haven't taken it, and they acknowledge my right not to, nor do they hold it against me.

And how about the Preload manager that suggest to the preloader to make his numbers better he may want to start earlier off the clock? Or I may have to fire you.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

And how about the Preload manager that suggest to the preloader to make his numbers better he may want to start earlier off the clock? Or I may have to fire you.

Tell him or her to go.friend himself!!!No pay no work!!!!!!!

 

[Indecisi0n]

I love it. Run these runners right into the ground.

 

[PT Car Washer]

Tell him or her to go.friend himself!!!No pay no work!!!!!!!

No Job.

 

[728ups]

728, they may be interested in auditing records; UPS is making sure we follow through on that part. And it doesn't take much thought to realize if I put in a 30 min lunch but also show work for that time UPS may come after me for leaving them open to sanctions. However, there are too many big rig drivers out there (and maybe some smaller outfits as well) where it is too easy to do some really egregious things, akin to delivering while "taking lunch", versus TOUCHING a box while on break, which the record won't show, which can't be proven unless directly observed, and if observed can be clearly seen to be not dangerous at all, in that sorting the truck doesn't tire a driver out, for the most part. You can exert more enrgy reading the sports section if you know the route well enough (putting stops is sequence is a whole lot easier than figuring out why the Phillies brought Darin Ruf back up to fill in for Howard, or what took so long in the first place to IR Howard).

They aren't looking for that, and even if they stumbled across it, they know it isn't the dangerous condition the law is meant to stop, provided the driver isn't "compelled" to do so, which is why I believe they may ask some questions to see what the driver is up to, and why. I move boxes around sometimes to clear space for me to lay out on my truck floor. Have I "broken the law"? Yes. Does the DOT care? No.

I'm trying very hard to make my point as clear and concise as possible,and yet you still arent getting it so lets try again
A) The DOT is very financially motivated to fine companies for 'safety violations'
B) With Telematics clear,undeniable proof of the drivers inactivity during lunch can be obtained ,this means UPS is an EASY target to find violations
C) The audits will go WAY above Center level, as the bigger nets that are cast the more fish will be caught
​D) dont be a fish caught in the net

 

[PT Car Washer]

Threatened to file Federal labor charges under the Fair Labor Standards Act. Backed off real fast.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

And how about the Preload manager that suggest to the preloader to make his numbers better he may want to start earlier off the clock? Or I may have to fire you.

That's not exactly how it was suggested to me. However, that is the principle why I don't sort off the clock anymore; the time to properly do the job should be built into the day. When it comes to sorting, I have figured out how to do so, sorting on the fly.

When I was on the preload, and manager or supe came to me saying I needed to load 1300 pieces in 5 hours when their own methods said it would take 6 (@225PPH), well...math is simple. Never had a problem, although had some lively discussions.

 

[PT Car Washer]

That's not exactly how it was suggested to me. However, that is the principle why I don't sort off the clock anymore; the time to properly do the job should be built into the day. When it comes to sorting, I have figured out how to do so, sorting on the fly.

When I was on the preload, and manager or supe came to me saying I needed to load 1300 pieces in 5 hours when their own methods said it would take 6 (@225PPH), well...math is simple. Never had a problem, although had some lively discussions.

Was that before PAS and a preloader had to know his job or be given a warning letter for one misload? Good old days.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

728, most of this thread as of late is about drivers SORTING off the clock; records cannot show this. So for starters, a cursory glance at UPS' records-even a really careful cursory glance-won't show a problem. Unless it is a big safety issue-where such a move would be more political and about saving face-at that point why are they deploying resources to find a 'problem' that does not exist, because while it may now be against the law (actually, it always was), it hasn't and isn't a problem.

In other words, sorting your truck is nothing like writing in a log book saying you were sleep for 8 hours-or even 30 minutes-when you were still very much engaged on the job. There are enough fish out there doing that-I bet FedEx Ground might have to worry-that so long as drivers are putting in their lunches and not showing work for those 30 mins, there is no problem. There is enough money to be made chasing legitimate issues, raising revenues as well as showing the public what the law is for, to focus on the not-so-easy-to-prove "legend" of drivers sorting on the clock. UPS may have deep pockets, and hundreds of thousands of drivers, but they are by no means a low-hanging piece of fruit, nor would they necessarily be an especially rewarding one.

 

[over9five]

My God, listen to the runner gunners justifying sorting during their lunch "No-one will know! Records will not show this!".

How 'bout it's just simply ILLEGAL. Man up, take your lunch, don't sort. It's really that simple.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Was that before PAS and a preloader had to know his job or be given a warning letter for one misload? Good old days.

For me, it got worse after PAS, when their numbers changed to reflect the "ease" with which we could load cars due to the system; I kinda wondered if they were going to take away the $1 premium pay we got for loading cars. It especially got worse once they said we were to abandon "all common sense and just go by the PAS label", even though out-of-syncs and bad PALs were not rare occurences. On the load charts, I had stretches where my STOP COUNTS (forget misloads) for three or four cars were off 1 total, while loading 300 pph. Once I had to be a dumb monkey, I managed to misload 16 packages twice in one week, and be backed up horribly at the end of the day. I've since heard they have backed off the "go only by PAL" somewhat...

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Over, some rules are meant to be bent, others broken....know the underlying principles, and it is no concern...



Crazy thing, I already said I don't do what I am "defending" here. I also know this discussion isn't about "law-breaking", it is about over-zealous members hoping this new adjustment will finally force drivers to stop blowing their lunches, so the company can ease off the back of the slower ones and hire more drivers. The point is, that's not going to happen. Drivers blow their lunches for reasons other than what the law is trying to prevent; those who DO blow their lunch because they are compelled to could just as easily be helped (it's got nothing to do with "manning up" so much as it does about knowledge).

I guess I am playing the Devil's Advocate here because I am hoping the more outspoken here may go on a more educational campaign and show newbies the ropes, don't just tell them "take your lunch"; all they "know" is they'll get fired, and not only is that not true, they don't have to work 10-12 hour days while taking a lunch, neither....as long as their center team isn't comprised of idiots or a sadists.

 

[over9five]

Over, some rules are meant to be bent, others broken....know the underlying principles, and it is no concern...

Runner gunner excuse. Man up.

 

[728ups]

728, most of this thread as of late is about drivers SORTING off the clock; records cannot show this. So for starters, a cursory glance at UPS' records-even a really careful cursory glance-won't show a problem. Unless it is a big safety issue-where such a move would be more political and about saving face-at that point why are they deploying resources to find a 'problem' that does not exist, because while it may now be against the law (actually, it always was), it hasn't and isn't a problem.

In other words, sorting your truck is nothing like writing in a log book saying you were sleep for 8 hours-or even 30 minutes-when you were still very much engaged on the job. There are enough fish out there doing that-I bet FedEx Ground might have to worry-that so long as drivers are putting in their lunches and not showing work for those 30 mins, there is no problem. There is enough money to be made chasing legitimate issues, raising revenues as well as showing the public what the law is for, to focus on the not-so-easy-to-prove "legend" of drivers sorting on the clock. UPS may have deep pockets, and hundreds of thousands of drivers, but they are by no means a low-hanging piece of fruit, nor would they necessarily be an especially rewarding one.

 

[East coast navy]

I have guys in my center that use their lunch before they would bunch in. They would show up late for even 40 minutes at a time. Then would just take a 40 minute break.(840 Start, punch in 920. Break 840 to 920). Sups didn't care as long as they where not late on their airs. The crazy part is they have 25 to 35 years. So sad!!