Before it's too late!

Irishman Collins

Well-Known Member
Relax Francis I was referring to "side of a discussion" or "side of the fence" as you stated.
I've read of people in the IBT who allegedly do not give full effort to "reformers" (as you call them) but I don't know any of them. Maybe you could post some real life cases for review.
However, on the National IBT basis I recall hall efforts in the L804 fiasco and how only after Hall got involved did those 250 members return to work. If your point was accurate, and a political agenda was being followed, no effort would have occurred and the L804 leaders (no friends of the current administration) would have been politically destroyed. On a local level, in my personal experience I know for a fact our local leaders have been challenged by "reformers" in past elections, on numerous occasions successfully returned to work the same challengers that kept getting fired, with the same effort put forth as they do for every other employee.
Now I have nothing to base this belief on (so that should be familiar to you) but I'm betting if these stellar, courageous "reformers" you're so willing to vote for were the BA's in these cases, the grievants would be looking for work.
Nothing wrong with reform when it's needed, but to run for union office just to get out of a truck isn't reform and can put members jobs in jeopardy. And if stopping those "reformers" from ever setting foot in a union hall makes me part of the problem, I'll wear that badge proudly.
The local 804 situation was put in place by the I.B.T.'s failure to control the beast that is UPS. UPS continues to terminate it's employees at will with no regard for the contract or the I.B.T. Mr.Hall and Hoffa had no choice "politically" but to protect 804 members. Anything else would of resulted in another huge failure. If the media hadn't been involved and such attention given to this situation 804 members would of been thrown under the bus. As a long standing UPS employee I am getting tired of the I.B.T. getting bullied by UPS. It is time to take UPS to task and stand up to the bully. Currently UPS rules over our Union and gets just about everything they want i.e., out of Central States, continued longer progression for part timers, out of the health insurance, working holidays, abuse of sure post agreement and still being allowed to send drivers out in antiquated unsafe vehicles just to name a few. Drink some more kool-aid and keep rooting for the continued failure of our great Union. Unbelievable!!
 

710 steward

Well-Known Member
I consider myself a reformer. I grew up without question in an "old guard" household. To be honest die hard old school Teamsters. I even worked side jobs as a kid for my father's Principle Officer. Unfortunately we are now in a place where reform is needed.

We have a declining membership. A pension system on the brink of going belly up and that's just for starters. Reform is needed within the Teamster ranks from top to bottom. Of course it can't be just anyone and making a change just because it's change is foolish. The fact remains that the way we do business is at minimum fractured if not broken. Blueprints change throughout the years but ours has not. A car in the 1900's is still a car today but the blueprint from with that car was made has clearly changed. Not the case with the Teamsters. We still do business exactly the same way as long as I can remember. We haven't changed with the times and prayed for a miracle. That miracle hasn't happened. I agree with you both in part but we need to look ourselves in the mirror and decide are we honestly doing the very best for the membership and it's future. As of today that answer is without question no.
 

10 point

Well-Known Member
Don't take your football and go home as you put it earlier. This could get interesting.
I don't find anything interesting about people who duck issues when it's not convenient to deal with a valid point. At least the point is valid in my eyes because I live it. It affects me and I always try to just deal with honest intent.

I really expected something beside a side step and then a sucker punch to someone not involved in my post.

It seems to be a waste of time trying to get an honest understanding between people when only one side is trying.
I try to respect your views and you have always been a smart and loyal person. But if it always ends up in a cat fight when certain views are presented and issues can't be discussed with some semblance of respect to stay on topic it isn't going to be "interesting". It's disappointing and a waste of personal time.

No hard feelings brother. Life goes on.
 

5habits100

Well-Known Member
I don't find anything interesting about people who duck issues when it's not convenient to deal with a valid point. At least the point is valid in my eyes because I live it. It affects me and I always try to just deal with honest intent.

I really expected something beside a side step and then a sucker punch to someone not involved in my post.

It seems to be a waste of time trying to get an honest understanding between people when only one side is trying.
I try to respect your views and you have always been a smart and loyal person. But if it always ends up in a cat fight when certain views are presented and issues can't be discussed with some semblance of respect to stay on topic it isn't going to be "interesting". It's disappointing and a waste of personal time.

No hard feelings brother. Life goes on.
I don't have any hard feelings against you or anyone else. To say I have always been a smart and loyal person is saying you know me which you do not. But I am smart and loyal. Thanks
 

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
I presume, with that last group of statements above, you can explain why Local 957 members "came out of the woodwork"..."when it affected them personally" and voted out the people that they felt affected them negatively personally as "representatives".

The members voted, and thats their right.

I hope they understand.... things don't change overnight.

It's not about rebels in every case but it is about some folks tired of lame and dishonest representation to the point that some did COME OUT OF THEIR TRUCKS to try to do a job that would be not only new territory but would put more pressure on themselves not to fail their friends and coworkers because guess why BUG?......

Because they care.

Because they care.... about all the members of the Local.

Not just UPS or Freight.

Local 957.... has a weird history with its (UPS) agents.

I guess you have the corner on courage.

Nope.

It takes a lot more courage to come off a bid route, make less money, incur disrespect from other existing BAs as "wannabe teamsters" and learn a job under fire than it does to just allow the status quo to continue in your local.

Been there.. done that.. got the T-shirt.

Thanks for the encouragement.


It's all "fun and games"....

Until, you actually win a Local election.



-Bug-
 

10 point

Well-Known Member
The members voted, and thats their right.

I hope they understand.... things don't change overnight.



Because they care.... about all the members of the Local.

Not just UPS or Freight.

Local 957.... has a weird history with its (UPS) agents.



Nope.



Been there.. done that.. got the T-shirt.




It's all "fun and games"....

Until, you actually win a Local election.



-Bug-
They know and admit that they have a lot to learn but they said they're going to do their best every day.

A wise man once said "Be careful what you ask for because you may get it.". That is a valid statement.

It is also said many people make it thru adversity but few make it thru success.

I applaud those folks for sticking their necks out for their coworkers and I pray they keep the same zeal they had to make changes at the forefront of their commitment for as long as they occupy their offices.
Wisdom and experience doesn't come without a price.
 
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Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
It's all "fun and games"....
Until, you actually win a Local election.
There is actually nothing "fun" about the "game" of trying to get elected, especially when you lose.:wink-very:

The fun doesn't actually begin until a few weeks after you get elected, at the full week of half day hearings at the JAC in Florida.
 

Irishman Collins

Well-Known Member
There is actually nothing "fun" about the "game" of trying to get elected, especially when you lose.:wink-very:

The fun doesn't actually begin until a few weeks after you get elected, at the full week of half day hearings at the JAC in Florida.
If I were to ever win an election. Here is what I would do. I would follow my morals and integrity and learn the contract forward and backwards and never sell out or give into the pressures of career politicians. If the job is hard then you must be making it hard by trying to please the career politicians and giving into pressures.
 

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
largely because of your ego-driven posting style, with giant gaps between thoughts, to appear self-important

It makes for easier reading.

A pause in thought.... requires reflection.


Just so you don't "come off" as an emotional jerk.

And can't understand.... when you try.... and reply. :happy:


Giant gaps between incomplete thoughts.


Did you print all of your "thoughts" on your failed campaign material ?



-Bug-
 
I'm staying out of this other than this post. It seems like this thread is just a pot shot fest. One guy says this another says that. Criticizing someone for being in office and criticisizm because someone that didn't make office. Criticizing someone who's in office. People wondering who someone is and some saying who they aren't. It's all kinds of redundant and frankly kind of embarrassing. Everyone who is in the middle of this should take a look at it and just walk the hell away. It's kinda embarrassing. Sorry for chiming in and I'm sure you all didn't miss me but go give a family member a hug or take a minute to think about stuff that also matters like the things in life that matter. There's got to be something. God bless and carry on.
 
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Irishman Collins

Well-Known Member
I'm staying out of this other than this post. It seems like this thread is just a pot shot fest. One guy says this another says that. Criticizing someone for being in office and criticisizm because someone that didn't make office. Criticizing someone who's in office. People wondering who someone is and some saying who they aren't. It's all kinds of redundant and frankly kind of embarrassing. Everyone who is in the middle of this should take a look at it and just walk the hell away. It's kinda embarrassing. Sorry for chiming in and I'm sure you all didn't miss me but go give a family member a hug or take a minute to think about stuff that also matters like the things in life that matter. There's got to be something. God bless and carry on.
A line from American Sniper. There are three types of people in this world, the sheep, the wolf and the sheep dog. The sheep are preyed upon by the wolf, the wolf is a predator who preys on the weak and the sheep dog protects the weak and faces the predator with no fear. I believe even my most fierce opponents on this site are sheep dogs. I just don't believe the sheep they are protecting are worth it but I respect their opinions even though I may not agree. Yes, we take pot shots at one another but as you can see. For the most part, we stay focused on our opinions and don't take our ball and go home. Another thing, just because we are combative doesn't mean that each and every one of us "sheep dogs" doesn't have family that we adore and love and will protect. I understand how being a sheep reading our post can make you uncomfortable. Remember, I think that all the sheep dogs on here regardless of their position on this or that would stand up for any sheep left alone in the pasture. If it wasn't for outspoken people in this world such as, in the game, big union guy and Bubblehead and myself just to name a few. We would all be preyed on by the wolf. So stand in your pasture and sleep well knowing we will be there to protect you with our outspoken personalities and our fierce combative opinions.
 
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Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
I'm staying out of this other than this post. It seems like this thread is just a pot shot fest. One guy says this another says that. Criticizing someone for being in office and criticisizm because someone that didn't make office. Criticizing someone who's in office. People wondering who someone is and some saying who they aren't. It's all kinds of redundant and frankly kind of embarrassing. Everyone who is in the middle of this should take a look at it and just walk the hell away. It's kinda embarrassing. Sorry for chiming in and I'm sure you all didn't miss me but go give a family member a hug or take a minute to think about stuff that also matters like the things in life that matter. There's got to be something. God bless and carry on.
It's just Brown Cafe.
None of it really gets to me.

I don't know if Big Union Guy is, ...or ever has been..., in Union office.

It really doesn't matter.

I think it makes him look stupid when he talks about me losing an election, although some may think it's funny or insightful.

It really doesn't matter.

I hate it when he pretends to know something and won't finish a discussion when asked questions, yet some may think it's witty and clever.

It really doesn't matter.

See where I'm going?
In the end, I'd love to have a beer with any one of them.
They are my brothers and sisters.
 
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