Before it's too late!

[Ron Carey lives on]

I tell you what, you have to admire BUG' s loyalty to the old guard. Or is it a personal salary he' s protecting? Either way he bobs a weaves real questions about his hero like sugar ray

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[O/C]

Old guard same as the new guard? Is there any difference....protect the brand...maintain the status quo....BUG is right whether who ever runs against the current powers really wants the job or are playing politics to stay in their current positions.

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[Bubblehead]

Old guard same as the new guard? Is there any difference....protect the brand...maintain the status quo....BUG is right whether who ever runs against the current powers really wants the job or are playing politics to stay in their current positions.

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If the staus quo is maintained, there will be no brand to protect.
I don't see where we have any other choice but to rebuild the IBT from the top down.

 

[O/C]

You are talking about some serious demolition, besides the membership for the most part are content and comfortable do you really think they want to kill the golden goose. I expect the same results with the next election and following contracts because only five percent of the membership knows anything nor cares of what is happening.

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[710 steward]

You are talking about some serious demolition, besides the membership for the most part are content and comfortable do you really think they want to kill the golden goose. I expect the same results with the next election and following contracts because only five percent of the membership knows anything nor cares of what is happening.

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Bubblehead is correct. If changes are not made there won't be a brand. Changes are coming to the IBT.

 

[Bubblehead]

You are talking about some serious demolition, besides the membership for the most part are content and comfortable do you really think they want to kill the golden goose. I expect the same results with the next election and following contracts because only five percent of the membership knows anything nor cares of what is happening.

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No, I'm talking about a democratic process and I'm not advocating that we "throw out the baby with the bathwater".
There is much that is still good within our union, but without a change in the "status quo", our union is destine to falter.

You are correct in the assertion that the biggest hurdle will be to educate and engage the membership.
If the "five percent" you refer to is expanded to 10,15 or 20% we have a chance to change things for the better.

 

[710 steward]

No, I'm talking about a democratic process and I'm not advocating that we "throw out the baby with the bathwater".
There is much that is still good within our union, but without a change in the "status quo", our union is destine to falter.

You are correct in the assertion that the biggest hurdle will be to educate and engage the membership.
If the "five percent" you refer to is expanded to 10,15 or 20% we have a chance to change things for the better.

Just being honest, I'm in the let's throw them all out camp. Hoffa has set up back at least a decade. Central States pension fund is all you need to refer to to truly understand how bad off we really are. I know there are those on this board who try to defend him. It doesn't take a law degree to figure out that ending funding to the plan would eventually run that system dry. Apparently Hoffa and his cast of clowns couldn't figure that one out. Now we are left to cone up with an emergency plan for the retirees of Central States. That alone should be reason enough for his removal. Now add two UPS contracts and the way he handled the Yellow situation. Right now I have more faith in the pizza delivery boy. At least the pizza boy has delivery experience. Hoffa is a by product of name recognition only. His dad somehow gets praise but he had mob ties and only God knows what he did with funds that had zero oversight too. Rebuild the IBT continues to grow every day. We need to believe and spread the word that this is our future and we are all in it together.

 

[Irishman Collins]

Just being honest, I'm in the let's throw them all out camp. Hoffa has set up back at least a decade. Central States pension fund is all you need to refer to to truly understand how bad off we really are. I know there are those on this board who try to defend him. It doesn't take a law degree to figure out that ending funding to the plan would eventually run that system dry. Apparently Hoffa and his cast of clowns couldn't figure that one out. Now we are left to cone up with an emergency plan for the retirees of Central States. That alone should be reason enough for his removal. Now add two UPS contracts and the way he handled the Yellow situation. Right now I have more faith in the pizza delivery boy. At least the pizza boy has delivery experience. Hoffa is a by product of name recognition only. His dad somehow gets praise but he had mob ties and only God knows what he did with funds that had zero oversight too. Rebuild the IBT continues to grow every day. We need to believe and spread the word that this is our future and we are all in it together.

Well said 710, I truly believe our futures are at stake and if we get complacent and ignore these most serious issues then we only have ourselves to blame.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

BUG is right whether who ever runs against the current powers really wants the job or are playing politics to stay in their current positions.

All you have to do is look at Suckerman, and his merry band of "players".

If you know anything about them (which I do).... all they are trying to do, is move up.

Better positions, with more money. They could care less about the members.

You are talking about some serious demolition

There won't be any demolition. And, I will tell you why....

Besides, the membership for the most part are content and comfortable. Do you really think they want to kill the golden goose? I expect the same results with the next election and following contracts because only five percent of the membership knows anything nor cares of what is happening.

There is the answer.


Any contenders will get the 5% (of delegate votes) needed to get on the ballot.

Then, get slaughtered in the general vote. (Do Leedum or Gegare ring a bell?)

And afterwards.... just start talking smack all over again.


Some people are "hoping" to relive things, through the "spirit" of Carey. Ain't gonna happen.

Just my opinion....


But, watch what happens.



-Bug-

 

[Bubblehead]

All you have to do is look at Suckerman, and his merry band of "players".
If you know anything about them (which I do).... all they are trying to do, is move up.
Better positions, with more money. They could care less about the members.

How much do want to tell us what you know this time???

Is it such a bad thing to want to move up...especially when the men you will displace are failing miserably?
Isn't this a natural progression?

There is the answer.
Any contenders will get the 5% (of delegate votes) needed to get on the ballot.
Then, get slaughtered in the general vote. (Do Leedum or Gegare ring a bell?)
And afterwards.... just start talking smack all over again.
Some people are "hoping" to relive things, through the "spirit" of Carey. Ain't gonna happen.
Just my opinion....
But, watch what happens.

How did Casey get elected in the first place?

Interesting how the "Old Guard" likes to point out that these challengers are exactly like them, money grubbing opportunist who don't care about the membership.

Then they claim that apathy is their ally and that we are wasting our time.

I'm not buying it.

 

[bowflex]

A wake up call. Only low income and low life's vote. People with real money just don't care. The money comes in regardless. Stop acting like the POTUS regulates your well being. Make that money, live your life and create your destiny.

 

[Inthegame]

Some people are "hoping" to relive things, through the "spirit" of Carey. Ain't gonna happen.


-Bug-

Probably right, but the three slate situation that occurred in '91 (and helped Carey get in) just might repeat. Then anything could happen. Hoffa's getting up there and there's a few ego's that might not line up behind Hall/O'Brien. This should start getting interesting pretty soon...

 

[Bubblehead]

Probably right, but the three slate situation that occurred in '91 (and helped Carey get in) just might repeat. Then anything could happen. Hoffa's getting up there and there's a few ego's that might not line up behind Hall/O. This should start getting interesting pretty soon...

Is it ego, conscience or both that are getting in the way?

 

[Inthegame]

Is it egos, consciences or both that are getting in the way?

Pragmatism. No one thinks they can beat Hoffa. Gegare could have easily won re-election for another term as VP but he had lots of egos pushing him to run and swearing to stand behind him. He ran for GP and they ran away.

 

[Bubblehead]

Pragmatism. No one thinks they can beat Hoffa. Gegare could have easily won re-election for another term as VP but he had lots of egos pushing him to run and swearing to stand behind him. He ran for GP and they ran away.

Gegare was the "Ross Perot" of that election and it was not a product of egos or idle promises, nor did he ever think he could win...

...then he disappeared with a hefty pension intact.

In hindsight, it probable wasn't necessary as Fred (ironic?) garnered more votes than Sandy who had no chance as an independent (woman) candidate.

 

[Inthegame]

Gegare was the "Ross Perot" of that election and it was not a product of egos or idle promises, nor did he ever think he could win...

...then he disappeared with a hefty pension intact.

So Gegare was a Hoffa plot to foil Sandy's chances?
Sure he was.
He gets a CS Pension no more "hefty" than any other member with a similar contribution rate. Time will tell how "intact" it remains.
My point was he walked away from a guaranteed $250K x 5 years for the chance of "moving up" as BUG asserts. His "hefty" pension doesn't get close to what he gave up.

 

[Bubblehead]

So Gegare was a Hoffa plot to foil Sandy's chances?
Sure he was.
He gets a CS Pension no more "hefty" than any other member with a similar contribution rate. Time will tell how "intact" it remains.
My point was he walked away from a guaranteed $250K x 5 years for the chance of "moving up" as BUG asserts. His "hefty" pension doesn't get close to what he gave up.

Come on ITG, tell them the whole truth.
The "lions share" of his pension isn't coming from the same Central States we know and is most certainly "intact".
He is doing well and wanting for little, I'm sure.
Working well into your 70's isn't for everybody.

 

[Inthegame]

Come on ITG, tell them the whole truth.
The "lions share" of his pension isn't coming from the same Central States we know and is most certainly "intact".
He is doing well and wanting for little, I'm sure.
Working well into your 70's isn't for everybody.

Hey kettle, you're black...You continue to post paragraphs of speculation and I'm questioned on the "whole truth"? Indeed Gegare qualifies for some pension from the frozen "affiliates" plan, but it doesn't come close to his CS plan, as the affiliates plan was frozen by Carey around '95 (BUG will know the exact date). But he was a contributing member of CS Pension for his entire career and gets exactly the amount any other member gets with similar contributions (UPS) from the same CS Plan, so how are you so certain where the "lions share" of his pension comes from?
Also not sure how you know "He is doing well and wanting for little", as he hasn't been seen anywhere since the loss.
You won't be catching me working into later life (+70), but Gegare is ten years younger than Hoffa and single (divorced).
The point remains, Gegare could've coasted for 5 more years and filled every pocket if money was his goal, but he didn't. That says something to me. Right or wrong, smart or dumb, he gave it a shot and you call it a conspiracy. Sandy runs and she's a hero...

 

[Bubblehead]

Hey kettle, you're black...You continue to post paragraphs of speculation and I'm questioned on the "whole truth"? Indeed Gegare qualifies for some pension from the frozen "affiliates" plan, but it doesn't come close to his CS plan, as the affiliates plan was frozen by Carey around '95 (BUG will know the exact date). But he was a contributing member of CS Pension for his entire career and gets exactly the amount any other member gets with similar contributions (UPS) from the same CS Plan, so how are you so certain where the "lions share" of his pension comes from?
Also not sure how you know "He is doing well and wanting for little", as he hasn't been seen anywhere since the loss.
You won't be catching me working into later life (+70), but Gegare is ten years younger than Hoffa and single (divorced).
The point remains, Gegare could've coasted for 5 more years and filled every pocket if money was his goal, but he didn't. That says something to me. Right or wrong, smart or dumb, he gave it a shot and you call it a conspiracy. Sandy runs and she's a hero...

What's $250,000 ×13? (Gegare's tenure as an International Vice President)
Define what a "similar contribution" would be?
I suspect money wasn't a concern as well.

If his actions were motivated by a desire to change the course of the union, why would he have disappeared after one "eleventh hour" failed attempt?

It was waaaay too convienient (and prudent).
I'm not buying it.
He did his appointed "duty" and vanished in the fog that is the Teamsters.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Interesting how the "Old Guard" likes to point out that these challengers are exactly like them, money grubbing opportunist who don't care about the membership.

What "Old Guard" people are saying that ?

Probably right, but the three slate situation that occurred in '91 (and helped Carey get in) just might repeat. Then anything could happen. Hoffa's getting up there and there's a few ego's that might not line up behind Hall/O. This should start getting interesting pretty soon...

It would be interesting, if there are 3 full slates.

Anything less, than a full slate against the incumbents....

The incumbents will always win.

Gegare could have easily won re-election for another term as VP but he had lots of egos pushing him to run and swearing to stand behind him. He ran for GP and they ran away.

The point remains, Gegare could've coasted for 5 more years and filled every pocket if money was his goal, but he didn't. That says something to me.

I'll give him credit for that.

But, he got left "hanging in the wind".

Sandy runs and she's a hero...

"Some" people, are enamored with her.


I would question their "true" motivation.



-Bug-