nospinzone
Well-Known Member
Re: The Sacred Text has spoken.....
As described in the chapter you've brought to our attention, discretion is left to the Board in determining the necessity of redefining a bargaining unit. But their decision is based on prior history of the unit in question, and whether the unit function has hampered the members ability to fully exercise their rights.
I required CPR twice while preparing this post.
APWA's initial arguement that set their campaign in motion is the mismanagement of the pension funds, specifically Central States and now the others that have followed suit. Poor enforcement of the contract across the country also adds to the APWA arguement. From what I've read here, people in 705 have taken care of themselves and would probably not be interested in what APWA has to offer. Why would you sell ice to eskimos? The people under the national contract, IMHO, would benefit the most from a change in CBA.
As described in the chapter you've brought to our attention, discretion is left to the Board in determining the necessity of redefining a bargaining unit. But their decision is based on prior history of the unit in question, and whether the unit function has hampered the members ability to fully exercise their rights.
Obviously the NLRB has not found the current defined unit in conflict with the above premise or they would have intervened well before now. So the APWA would have to present a valid arguement that would withstand the requisite desribed above. Your reasoning to break up the current unit just for the sake of giving the APWA some "practice" doesn't hold water.12. APPROPRIATE UNIT: GENERAL PRINCIPLES said:
I required CPR twice while preparing this post.
In other words, you guys in the 705 and 710 are basically just like any other company that is teamsters, not really affected by what the rest of the UPS employees do other than if we pull out of the teamsters it would greatly decrease the membership, but your contract and everyyhing else would remain the same.
So, I do not know why you care what the rest of us do. Maybe you guys can explain what effect it would have on your situation.
705red
Browncafe Steward
Ups79 Your wrong! When the national went on strike we here in 705 honored it and went out with the national! 710 did not go on strike and we in 705 put up picket lines at every 710 facility and for the mosr part 710 honored all of 705s pickets. After the national went back to work (16 or 17 days) We in 705 held out for 19 days before going back.
When any company has up a picket line we call the cage at the union hall to see if its a recognized strike. If it is we sheet the packages as on strike and will not cross for pick ups and deliveries, maybe thats what you were thinking of?
705red
Browncafe Steward
Our contracts run side by side with contract dates. I have heard if we would call a strike here that the national might honor it, i think it all depends on the situation. To the best of my knowledge the national has not honored our past work stoppages over sups working, etc..,. Brother if you go out im sure we will be right there with you! Any time a company here in chicago goes out i go and show support by walking the line and bringing coffee, food whatever they need, i remember in 97 how many other unions came out in support and i will never forget that.
Sorry Red, I don't but I can assure you that I'm not making this up. This came from one of Jon Frum's posts and I'm sure if asked he would share this, but he is not the only one I've heard this from. This has been explained before by ups officials as well. I don't know about abf or yellow I just know about ups. You can believe what I say simply because I for one don't like misinformation either but if I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it.
But lets make one thing clear, the single emp-pension fund is not explained the way the apwa has proposed. It may have single employer funding but the key difference is it will not be controlled by ups or the apwa or the teamsters or whoever, it will be controlled by the investment firm which just happens to be one of the 3 largest investment firms in the world and will be assuredly be one of the largest if not the largest fund in the clientel. Now there may be trustees involved as well, I can't say for sure but allowing ups and the teamsters to co-op a pension fund for us is definately putting all our eggs in one basket. This is our best option for controlling our future because it keeps all parties involved but from a distance. I have several friends who work as brokers and they all had the same thing to say about it and the way it is now use to work but things change and if you can't roll with the punches your sunk from the get go. Hopefully this sheds some light on the single-emp pension fund argument.
705red
Browncafe Steward
You would be the first! I havent meet that many people from 710 that did know what they were talking about, nice to finally meet one, i think. At least from the local side of 710, are you employed by 710?
Dutch Dawg
Well-Known Member
710 was Frank Wsol's, I believe 705 was Hogan's
705red
Browncafe Steward
Hogan ran the movie industry local here in chicago, i cant remember the #.
RockyRogue
Agent of Change
FYI: Check out: https://web.archive.org/web/20100613085801/http://ipsn.org/movies.html. Ignore what it says about the Mob at the top. Second paragraph down. Its IBT Local 714 according to this article. -Rocky
J
JonFrum
Guest
Karl Childers: "Some folks call it a sling blade, I call it a kaiser blade."
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117666/
That movie should be mandatory viewing in all the schools, and for everyone else as well!
- - - - -
705Red,
Every company that stops contributing to a multi-employer pension fund is legally obligated to pay its Withdrawal Liability to the fund to cover the unfunded, vested benefits of its own employees. If, say, Central States is 63% funded, then UPS owes the other 37%, and the bill comes due as soon as Central States realizes UPS is no longer making its regular monthly contributions. The exact amount of the Withdrawal Liability is slightly debatable, because there are several ways to calculate it, but the fact that the bill is owed is *not* debatable. Withdrawal Liability is a basic feature of ERISA and is also spelled out in every plan's trust document.
The $4 billion or so Withdrawal Liability is a debt UPS owes to the Central States Trust Fund; not a gift, or a sign of good-faith negotiating. These pension funds are called "Defined Benefit" funds because companies like UPS guarantee the published benefit levels, even if they, being represented by *all* the employer-side trustees, allow the fund to be underfunded. It's like having a mortgage on a house you own. You may have the house only partially paid for, but you do owe the rest, and the rest will come due if you try to move.
Since the Western Conference fund is fully funded, UPS, and all the other employers in that fund, may leave at any time and do not owe any Withdrawal Liability. UPS does owe Withdrawal Liability to every other multi-employer pension funds it is in, that is less than 100% funded. TANSTAAFL!
705red
Browncafe Steward
You can be a ups employee and go to work for the local! I was attempting to be nice to a fellow upser from local 710, but as always you think your better than all other ups teamsters. The only local with no back bone to go on strike in 97 and encourage their members to collect unemployment while everyone in the country was living off of a weak strike fund. Not to mention that your feeders crossed our picket lines at will wt the cach facility.
I was hoping once wsol was stabbed in the back by flynn that we would build a good working relationship. Pat flynn is just as bad as wsol was, he preaches teamster unity and in the same breath encourages his organizing department to raid 705 railyards and attempt to steal 705s members. I guess its whats good for pat flynn and local 710 and screw everyone else! I have attempted to get along with 710 in the past and present but still cant get over tha almighty 710 tellling their members to do what the want, cross dont cross we dont care, ron carey called the strike and little jimmy hoffa told us not to honor it.
If you ever put up a picket line anywhere i will honor it. but dont expect my support in manning your lines!
nospinzone
Well-Known Member
Jon, if this is the case, then how would the current retiree be effected by a UPS withdrawal or an APWA decert win? According to you the vested benefits would be covered by the withdrawal liability that UPS would be required to pay. And I've tried reading ERISA but my eye balls 'bout damn near explode. Do you know the specific area where that withdrawal unfunded liability commitment is defined?
Similar threads
