Contract deal soon?

[705red]

This may be a dumb qustion, but if a contract agreement is reached and we vote on it this summer and it is accepted by us, will it supercede the current contract or will it still take effect on 08/01/08? Just wondering why we're getting so excited about a potential early settlement.

Most likely it will begin aug 1st of 08 unless its agreed upon to activate the contract immediately.

 

[705red]

And speaking of scripts...just before Teamster.net went down I ventured over there to see what they are saying about the APWA. I noticed that they had an APWA discusson totally seperate than the UPS threads. In the list of topics I noticed that someone has posted a list of questions for people to throw at anyone discussing the APWA. Sounded like a script to me so I read through some of them and the questions were familiar. I started getting De ja vu, or whatever it's called and realized it was the same exact questions being asked here. So....Scripts? Both sides seem to be using them. Either way...I think the IBT will agree to the joint Pension because they fear that if they don't then they could very possibly get replace by the APWA. So basically....they will settle for losing a little of their power instead of the risk of losing all of their power.

What are you doing on teamster.net? Coming back to your roots? Did you wake up this morning and realize the apwa was only a bad nightmare?

 

[rapidrandall]

This may be a dumb qustion, but if a contract agreement is reached and we vote on it this summer and it is accepted by us, will it supercede the current contract or will it still take effect on 08/01/08? Just wondering why we're getting so excited about a potential early settlement.

The BA I work with as a steward is on the national negotiating committee and he told me quite a while ago that this contract would run its full term and the new agreement would take affect 8/1/08. I have not heard anything to the contrary since.

 

[RockyRogue]

It is very hard to prove credibility when an idea or organization is new and just getting started. About all one can hope for is to get to know the parties concerned and go on the character of that person or persons until they have established a track record./quote]

Good point, I'll grant you that, Saw. Unfortunately, I return once again to this: very simple statistical data would give APWA substantial credibility. Call me an elitist pig or condescending pr*ck but the numbers I'm talking about are very easy to understand, IMHO. The insistence on media coverage I keep bringing up...you know, the best I've found is an article from DAYTON about the APWA's organizing drive. If you want it, PM me and I'll send you the link. Once again, I state I want some national, well-known media coverage--TV, print and/or electronic to give APWA credence. This is not unreasonable, sir! Might send a message to the Teamsters and UPS that APWA isn't a shadow lurking in the dark.

Rocky, I think you see the pattern by Eng. He likes to hit and run. When he hits, he acts like this is the first time he's ever been here. I like it also when he takes an expression I've used on him then uses it on YOU! "Losing credibility". He must write down all the big words and try to use them in a sentence once in a while.

When confronted by questions that he CANNOT answer or answer correctly, he slyly slips away or acts like it never happened!

Yeah, I've noticed that, Race. His buddy Goose isn't much better about hitting and running, let alone answering simple challenges. No offense to Sawdust but do you remember how that poster jumped in, answering my questions for Goose?? I'll find the post if you want it. -Rocky

 

[RockyRogue]

Duplicate post.

 

[tieguy]

I would never quit my job, but i have been fired 3xs and the teamsters got me back with back pay all 3xs, so if the apwa somehow wins im sure i would be fired again. The company most likely would draw it out knowing the apwa will not have funds in order to arbitrate any cases for sometime probably years.

Why would we fire you? You wouldn't give us a reason would you?

 

[sawdusttv]

It is very hard to prove credibility when an idea or organization is new and just getting started. About all one can hope for is to get to know the parties concerned and go on the character of that person or persons until they have established a track record./quote]

Good point, I'll grant you that, Saw. Unfortunately, I return once again to this: very simple statistical data would give APWA substantial credibility. Call me an elitist pig or condescending pr*ck but the numbers I'm talking about are very easy to understand, IMHO. The insistence on media coverage I keep bringing up...you know, the best I've found is an article from DAYTON about the APWA's organizing drive. If you want it, PM me and I'll send you the link. Once again, I state I want some national, well-known media coverage--TV, print and/or electronic to give APWA credence. This is not unreasonable, sir! Might send a message to the Teamsters and UPS that APWA isn't a shadow lurking in the dark.



Yeah, I've noticed that, Race. His buddy Goose isn't much better about hitting and running, let alone answering simple challenges. No offense to Sawdust but do you remember how that poster jumped in, answering my questions for Goose?? I'll find the post if you want it. -Rocky

Again Rock, Give it time!
Patience is a virtue!!!
All good things come to those who wait!!!!

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

What are you doing on teamster.net? Coming back to your roots? Did you wake up this morning and realize the apwa was only a bad nightmare?

I knew I'd get that kind of response. LOL. My roots? Hardly. I never really like that board. I first went there because I had just joined the union and had heard a couple of guys in the hub talking about it. It seemed like there were hardly ever any new threads and that there were always the same two or three guys arguing back and forth. It got old quick. I have always liked this board better. I went back there weeks ago to see what they were saying about the APWA and discovered the list of questions that were being asked here. And no....I don't think the APWA is a bad nightmare but I do think the current condition of our pension is so I'm watching the APWA and the joint pension proposal with great interest. So, I guess you could say that I'm "Keeping my options open."

 

[RockyRogue]

Again Rock, Give it time!
Patience is a virtue!!!
All good things come to those who wait!!!!

Hey, Sawdust, I'm willing to give ya'll til JUDGEMENT DAY! But, I'm done arguing with APWA supporters if they refuse to give us what I've asked for, which isn't unreasonable information and numbers. Right now, APWA is a shadow in a dim corner. If APWA hopes to change mass minds, it needs to be a visible, transparent entity. I don't that happening anytime soon. Anyone else see it happening anytime soon? -Rocky

 

[sawdusttv]

Hey, Sawdust, I'm willing to give ya'll til JUDGEMENT DAY! But, I'm done arguing with APWA supporters if they refuse to give us what I've asked for, which isn't unreasonable information and numbers. Right now, APWA is a shadow in a dim corner. If APWA hopes to change mass minds, it needs to be a visible, transparent entity. I don't that happening anytime soon. Anyone else see it happening anytime soon? -Rocky

Rock,
We are already seeing the fruits of the APWA labor. All the talk of the CS buy out and other contract talk is a direct result of pressure from the APWA movement, and as soon as the APWA completes the card drive you will see thing pick up pace rapidly, and as you stated before, we are starting to see media coverage in local papers. ONLY A MATTER OF TIME!!!!!!!

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Rock,
We are already seeing the fruits of the APWA labor. All the talk of the CS buy out and other contract talk is a direct result of pressure from the APWA movement, and as soon as the APWA completes the card drive you will see thing pick up pace rapidly, and as you stated before, we are starting to see media coverage in local papers. ONLY A MATTER OF TIME!!!!!!!

It's hard for even the die hard anti-APWA crowd to ignore that. It's clear that there is at least a little pressure being felt by the IBT. I think that will ultimately lead to them seeing eye to eye with UPS when it comes time to decide whether or not to agree to the joint pension. If not....they will risk losing their representation of UPS workers. It's not a definate thing but definately a possibility that people will lean towards the APWA if another solution doesn't present itself. The joint pension isn't perfect but it's better than what's going on now. I'm keeping an open mind and trying to stay non-partisan about it but right now I'm still leaning a bit towards the APWA but a joint IBT/UPS pension would be better than what we have now.

 

[RockyRogue]

Rock,
We are already seeing the fruits of the APWA labor. All the talk of the CS buy out and other contract talk is a direct result of pressure from the APWA movement, and as soon as the APWA completes the card drive you will see thing pick up pace rapidly, and as you stated before, we are starting to see media coverage in local papers. ONLY A MATTER OF TIME!!!!!!!

:::::Sighs, bangs head against wall:::::. I think you're missing my point, Saw. -Rocky

 

[sawdusttv]

:::::Sighs, bangs head against wall:::::. I think you're missing my point, Saw. -Rocky

I must be!! You know us dumb southern boys need it spelled out word for word!!!!!!111

 

[RockyRogue]

I must be!! You know us dumb southern boys need it spelled out word for word!!!!!!111

Never said ya'll were dumb, for one. For another, I'm from the South, Saw and frankly can't stand that stereotype. Born just outside Dallas, Texas. I have a relative that called me a "dumb hick" and a "redneck" about a year ago. My point is that APWA isn't giving me a reason to follow it. It's refusing to provide statistical support for its claims of gangbusters success, its refusing to answer reasonable questions about the form the union will ultimately take, etc, etc. You SERIOUSLY expect somebody with questions to sign on when you refuse to answer those questions???? I'm willing to listen til the cows come home to the Fort Worth Slaughtering Yards but I'm not throwing any tangible support behind APWA until I get some questions answered, I see some credible numbers AND see some more mainstream news-coverage. The latter would tell me APWA is serious. The former two would give you credibility. -Rocky

 

[705red]

Never said ya'll were dumb, for one. For another, I'm from the South, Saw and frankly can't stand that stereotype. Born just outside Dallas, Texas. I have a relative that called me a "dumb hick" and a "redneck" about a year ago. My point is that APWA isn't giving me a reason to follow it. It's refusing to provide statistical support for its claims of gangbusters success, its refusing to answer reasonable questions about the form the union will ultimately take, etc, etc. You SERIOUSLY expect somebody with questions to sign on when you refuse to answer those questions???? I'm willing to listen til the cows come home to the Fort Worth Slaughtering Yards but I'm not throwing any tangible support behind APWA until I get some questions answered, I see some credible numbers AND see some more mainstream news-coverage. The latter would tell me APWA is serious. The former two would give you credibility. -Rocky

Do you (apwa cheerleaders) see how your turning off the members? Members ask serious questions and yet they get redirected questions in return or ignored. You seem to be benefiting the teamsters cause who you hate so much, keep up the great work guys!

 

[RockyRogue]

Do you (apwa cheerleaders) see how your turning off the members? Members ask serious questions and yet they get redirected questions in return or ignored. You seem to be benefiting the teamsters cause who you hate so much, keep up the great work guys!

:::::Speaks softly::::: Don't be so sure, Red. Drawing hasty conclusions is an error. If I can get my questions answered, I'll make a decision about supporting the APWA or not. -Rocky

 

[krash]

Rocky,
I've been to Mesquite. Texas is quite beautiful. Guess I had seen to many westerns and thought it(Texas) would be a desert wasteland. The south is indeed God's country. Also, good points about APWA. My biggest sticking point with them is the all or nothing approach. They want all of UPS and all of UPSF all at once. They will not succeed that way and it make you wonder if they really want to. It may very well be just a ploy to fire up the IBT. Man, there's gonna be some really pissed "charter" members if they are.

 

[RockyRogue]

Rocky,
I've been to Mesquite. Texas is quite beautiful. Guess I had seen to many westerns and thought it(Texas) would be a desert wasteland. The south is indeed God's country. Also, good points about APWA. My biggest sticking point with them is the all or nothing approach. They want all of UPS and all of UPSF all at once. They will not succeed that way and it make you wonder if they really want to. It may very well be just a ploy to fire up the IBT. Man, there's gonna be some really pissed "charter" members if they are.

Oh, Texas does have its barren areas. Go out in West Texas and you'll see that. I got an e-mail from a relative in Texas that rattled off a bunch of facts about the size of Texas. One of them was in relation to the distance being shorter from two cities (I forget which ones) than it was from Houston to Dallas (I think its over 300 miles). I'd like to own some land (not much...maybe three or four acres) in Texas someday. As to APWA...they're biting off and chewing a lot more than they probably should. But, I respect ambition. It might be wise to concentrate on just Freight for now. But...what do I know, right? -Rocky

 

[nospinzone]

Rocky,
My biggest sticking point with them is the all or nothing approach. They want all of UPS and all of UPSF all at once.

Gentlemen....
There is no other way to organize UPS Parcel except as a national campaign. Under the IBT/UPS contract of 2002 all employees except those in 705, fall into a single collective bargaining unit. Please read the following excerpt from the 2002 contract.

Page 1. First Paragraph. Intro.
National Master United Parcel Service Agreement for the Period: August 1, 2002 through July 31, 2008 covering: operations in, between and over all of the states, territories, and possessions of the United States and operations into and out of all contiguous territory.

Article 2. Scope of the Agreement.
Section 1. Single Bargaining Unit
All employees covered by this Master Agreement and the various supplements, riders and Addenda thereto, shall constitute one (1) bargaining unit.

Article 1. Section 1 describes in detail the job positions included in this contract.

The APWA has no alternative but to attempt a NLRB vote for ALL UPS employees, because they are ALL within a single collective bargaining unit.

UPS Freight has no such contract. Therefore both IBT and APWA are free to organize building by building. Freight employees have shown significant interest in the APWA. So if the APWA believes that the IBT shouldn't be the CBA for parcel, why wouldn't they take steps to offer the Freight guys a better alternative?

 

[RockyRogue]

Gentlemen....
There is no other way to organize UPS Parcel except as a national campaign. Under the IBT/UPS contract of 2002 all employees except those in 705, fall into a single collective bargaining unit. Please read the following excerpt from the 2002 contract.

I'm not getting into contract talk, Nospin. Not worth the headache to do so. Its why I sugggested APWA concentrate on the non-union Freight side first. If APWA successfully organized a few Freight buildings and got what the member's wanted, APWA would be substantially better off because it would have...what's that word again??? Ohhhh, that's right...credibility!! I'm sure I'll take a flaming for this. -Rocky