Forcing Thanksgiving Holiday Work Is The Beginning Of The End

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
This horse has been beat to death in another thread and this one as well.
What "Big Union" people and those who are "in the game" can't explain is how the opening sentence is relevant in Article 15 sec 1 of the CRT?
Why is it even there?
"no regular seniority employee shall be required the below named holidays"
If section 4 of the same article supposedly provides for employees being required to work a named holiday, in what context does the opening line of the article come into play?
How are these 2 sections not completely contradicting of one another?
The only plausible explanation is in conjunction with Art 40 of the Master, which is exactly how it has played out since the inception of this language and the only way it is "otherwise provided for".
It's only now, in the wake of a newly imposed contract, that the company and union forgot or realized they didn't have the foresight to address this issue and are trying to once again trick us into believing we don't understand what we read.
How many times are we going to fall for the "banana in the tailpipe"?

Bubble,

I am going to try and help you understand this.... one more time.


You can't read one sentence (or a part of it) and deduce a conclusion.

Read, and try to comprehend the language.... in it's totality. Chronological order.


Section 4 has been in existence since "73".

"Except as otherwise provided" first appeared in 1976, in the Central Region language.

Well before.... (wait for it)


The Article 40 Air language.


Life is replete with choices.


The best part of working a Union job.... you can always file a grievance.



-Bug-
 

blue741

Active Member
I don't understand this change. Seriously, what's the point when no one's home? In the bay area you can't just leave the packages on the front porch. The whole :censored2: truck will be full of send agains.
 

VonDutch

Bite your tongue, Missy
I don't understand this change. Seriously, what's the point when no one's home? In the bay area you can't just leave the packages on the front porch. The whole :censored2: truck will be full of send agains.

So be it. But UPS wants to pay you royally so they can say they tried.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
Bubble,

I am going to try and help you understand this.... one more time.


You can't read one sentence (or a part of it) and deduce a conclusion.

Read, and try to comprehend the language.... in it's totality. Chronological order.


Section 4 has been in existence since "73".

"Except as otherwise provided" first appeared in 1976, in the Central Region language.

Well before.... (wait for it)


The Article 40 Air language.


Life is replete with choices.


The best part of working a Union job.... you can always file a grievance.



-Bug-

I am not going to waste my time filing a grievance, as I am sure that the "fix" is in, again.

Again, I am going to ask you, in what context is the first sentence of Section 1 of Article 15 of the CRT relevant if not taken literally?
Why is it there?

I was only 7 in '73 and 10 years old in 1976, so I haven't amassed your impressive collection to reference if section 1 was also there?
When was Art 40 introduced to the Master and was it not anticipated in '76?

When you choose to only answer some of my questions and ignore the others, it serves to make me curious/suspicious.
So please, keep talking.

Guess what else happened in 1973???
  • Federal Express relocates operations to Memphis,Tenn.
  • On the first night of continuous operation, 389 Federal Express employees and 14 Dassault Falcon jets deliver 186 packages overnight to 25 U.S. cities — and the modern air/ground express industry is born.
Perhaps I just stumbled upon the intent of the language?

I'm betting the language in the various other supplements also marry up with this timeline.
 
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Spicybrother

Well-Known Member
I once ran a feeder run on Christmas day for double time ;) . Double time is sweet milk that quiets crying babies. I will work any day, at any time of day for double time. I wish I could come work for some of you guys for double time. I LUV some fracking double time. Where can I get some more?!
 

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
I am not going to waste my time filing a grievance, as I am sure that the "fix" is in, again.

It's a conspiracy.

The company and Union are in collusion.


That defeatist attitude.... is what UPS (really) thinks of it's Union employees.

When was Art 40 introduced to the Master and was it not anticipated in '76?

How about asking your Local leadership, at the next monthly meeting ?

When you choose to only answer some of my questions and ignore the others, it serves to make me curious/suspicious.

You pay dues to your Local, not me.

But, for the right price.... we could work something out. :biggrin:

I once ran a feeder run on Christmas day for double time ;) . Double time is sweet milk that quiets crying babies. I will work any day, at any time of day for double time. I wish I could come work for some of you guys for double time. I LUV some fracking double time. Where can I get some more?!

I know drivers that are "chomping at the bit" in anticipation.

They magically become "dairy" delivery drivers overnight. :wink2:



-Bug-
 

HEFFERNAN

Huge Member
The holiday part of the contract is written perfectly and I don't understand why you 2 stump-humpers can't figure it out.

Any other day of the year, you start off as scheduled to work. If you are not required to work that day, they will ask you not to come in (personal hol. or dead day).
On the listed holidays, you start off as not scheduled to work with holiday pay. IF UPS REQUIRES YOU TO WORK, then your supplement's pay rate is shown and you have to come in.
You two are taking words literally and aren't putting the whole thing in context.

Since you both know I like to use pictures in my posts, if you can't understand the above explanation I'm going to use these next time ...

analytical-phonics-letter-blocks.jpg
 
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HULKAMANIA

Well-Known Member
Heffernan you are comparing apples and oranges with your statement. You cant compare just any other day to a day that is written in the contract as a holiday. The contract SHOULD be WRITTEN LITERALLY to eliminate all confusion such as this.
You act like people are stupid and thats simply not the case. Hey you might like the extra pay and such but there are many out there that have always had plans with family at that time. If you want to work it then fine so be it thats the way its been and should remain. Stop treating the others as if they dont have a valid complaint because they do.

You guys get on here and act like people overreact and thats not really true either. What happens if UPS just decides OH by the way we are working Saturday and Sunday now? I mean heck it doesnt say in the contract that they cant. Some will say they frown on a 6th punch in....Well the contract said we arent required to work the day after Thanksgiving but we got told OH by the way you are working....This isnt how it should have taken place and thats the bottom line. So because of foul weather last year and because of Amazon's stupidity here we are. Amazon is a big account I get it. What was the point of hiring all these extra drivers and seasonal drivers if not to add routes for added volume? So if we have the extra man power why are we doing this? Whos to say weather wont do the same thing again this year? That one day isnt going to amount to much in the grand scheme of things. Most businesses will be closed and what little ground "in comparison to normal" there will be wont constitute a full staff as they are saying.

Like I said we all know the model that UPS runs by. They will say all this and then cut routes. When Monday comes around they will still cut routes when the work is actually there. It just gets old the stupidity that takes place constantly.

Someone said "Adapt or become extinct" REALLY?!?! Ok so business sense says lets pay drivers $1000 for one day of work...As opposed to regular pay plus extra seasonal drivers that Monday at half the pay? Call me crazy but I will take the later of the 2 if it was my business. I can see it now...After the 1st of the year they will say OH WE SPENT TOO MUCH FOR PEAK NOW WE REALLY GOTTA CUT BACK...and us drivers will be the ones BONED once again. The more I sit and think about this the more it just ticks me off.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
It's a conspiracy.

The company and Union are in collusion.


That defeatist attitude.... is what UPS (really) thinks of it's Union employees.
-Bug-

That defeatist attitude is what "they" are both banking on.

How about asking your Local leadership, at the next monthly meeting ?

-Bug-

I have no Local leadership.

You pay dues to your Local, not me.

But, for the right price.... we could work something out.

-Bug-

Don't be so stingy for a change.
Unburden yourself with your full opinion.
I think you want to say it.:hamwheelsmilf:
 
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Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
Why such a complete about face from what was previously the status quo?

Why not continue to post a volunteer list and force from the bottom for additional needs?

Shouldn't seniority prevail for a compensated day off?

Instead, in my center, senior drivers are scheduled, while lessor seniority drivers are "on-call" in the center?
In another, every driver is scheduled?
The third center didn't even post a schedule?
Meanwhile our local seniority practice provides for these days building wide in regards to seniority.

This crap is backwards and sideways, while cats and dogs sleep together.
 
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MC4YOU2

Wherever I see Trump, it smells like he's Putin.
Normally I would disagree with this and take the Code 05, but if they want to make this a regular work day I will gladly work a full day. Oh, wait....I'm on vacation....never mind.



Of my 28 pickups, including an MBE, Staples and UPS Store, only 2 are closed. All of my major bulk stops, including Walmart, are open. Code 05 will not be an option on my area.

Didn't you say your Wal-Mart was not accepting deliveries on Black Friday?
 

MC4YOU2

Wherever I see Trump, it smells like he's Putin.
I don't understand this change. Seriously, what's the point when no one's home? In the bay area you can't just leave the packages on the front porch. The whole :censored2: truck will be full of send agains.

Are you getting many MyChoice resi customers yet? Probably not enough to empty the truck out. I'm embracing it and even drawing a circle around it on the delivery notice to call attention to it.
 

upsbeernut

Sometimes i feel like a nut sometimes i dont
Why such a complete about face from what was previously the status quo?

Why not continue to post a volunteer list and force from the bottom for additional needs?

Shouldn't seniority prevail for a compensated day off?

Instead, in my center, senior drivers are scheduled, while lessor seniority drivers are "on-call" in one center?
In another, every driver is scheduled?
The third center didn't even post a schedule?
Meanwhile our local seniority practice provides for these days building wide in regards to seniority.

This crap is backwards and sideways, while cats and dogs sleep together.
Yes heard the same thing walking out last Friday. Seniority is the last of our pride in this job so let us hold onto it and give us the option instead of making it mandatory. Everyone asks me, Are you working Friday? Half of the drivers i talk to are not working. Management will start asking Monday.
 

SandBagger

Active Member
After days (and evenings) of reading posts on this subject I need to say that olroadbeech seems to be the sanest person posting. Hat tip to olroadbeech for content and manners.

I also want to point out that 20 years ago, everyone (well almost) touting their Teamster identity and ideals at least still leaned towards solidarity and fellowship. It was atypical to see someone not watching his brother or sister's back.

Now let's look around today. Take this tiny microcosm as representative of a larger whole.

Here you have not only a multitude of opinions and personalities, but also it seems a multitude of ambitions and agendas, both organized and personal.

There is also a distinct variation of knowledge and skill levels, and everyone could be a little more cognizant of the fact and treat each other accordingly. Patience is a virtue and kindnes as well. I too am guilty of overreaching on ocassion.

It seems to me the only time I read posts from those who identify themselves as union players they're telling me and/or you how you should trust leadership and march single file as directed. Problem is, we all seem to agree (at least to some small degree) that the directives we are given are rarely equally applied, and even more rarely justified to our individual satisfaction when questioned.

In my humble opinion that is indicative of a large and systemic problem. That problem is going to eventually evolve into a crushing and likely terminal blow to the organization. Mark that down.

I can't really decide which is the most destructive though.

Is it the arrogance of some who work so diligently to discourage dissent, or is it the blind greed that drives some among us to put their personal shortcomings on parade in forums like this, as well as in the workplace?

How absolutely un-Teamster and un-union is it to publicly offer rebuke to a brother or sister because he treasures his hard won day off? Did he not earn it and the right to take that time with his family?

And how about the greed that motivates you to go into work on a holiday for a few more bucks and sabatoge his (and your) future right to that time?

Think the company has found your "right button" to push?

How about your union?

Each of us to a man/woman knows this company mandated change sets a precedent that will never be repealed. Every holiday alotted to you will in the future be at risk because a few care so much about themselves they neglect the rights of others.

Then there's the everpresent remark that pops up over and over..."Ask your supervisor if he wants to work that day". Of course he doesn't. But he's the one who sold his soul to the devil.

Why even bring it up? That remark is more manipulative than sincere. Think about it.

I address this comment directly to those who come onto this site and tout their leadership abilities and record. If you're such a great leader, why have you lead for so long and allowed the divisions among us to grow instead of shrink? Have you become someone else's errand boy?

How is it that we even have a need for this level of debate and discourse on what should have long ago been settled issues?

Do members need to pay more for good leadership, or is that very money the problem to begin with?

Until everyone returns to the days when an offense to one was an offense to all, we are drowning in failure and losing ground in economic terms as well as the value of self-worth.

Just try and remember that "freedom isn't free", and sometimes you just have to step outside your comfort zone and risk a little something.

Right now, the rank-and-file worker (and I don't just mean at UPS) is under more than one thumb. The pressure is only going to grow, and if cheap labor becomes even more accessible through government mandates you're going to learn what true struggle is all about. I suggest you so-called leaders dump the fact dodging and nit-picking and address the larger issues in a way that befits everyone and not just your own pride or agenda.

Now that I've vented let me close in pointing out that regarding the specific topic of this thread, there are some contractual levers you may apply depending upon which supplement you are covered under. Look for them.

In the Atlantic Area, note that a "legal holiday" has no contractual mechanism which can specifically deny you of that time off or pay, aside from failing to report on regular scheduled workdays following and proceeding - and then all that can be taken is the pay, not the time off.

Recognize that UPS' so-called reclassification of a legal holiday into a "scheduled workday" is riddled with opportunity to challenge.

For example, how can it be both?

Answer, it can't. Not legally anyway.


(An old BA taught me that trick decades ago. Seems he retired without handing the knowledge down because surely his replacements would be arguing that on the member's behalf, right? Of course such remarks might be interpretted as "conspiracy" talk any moment, so let's not be so bold as to insinuate such a thing and get belittled for it. Everyone knows everything is always transparent and above reproach.)

The only clear exception to work on holidays is the Article 40 language on air work on holidays. Read it. Package drivers can be forced to work alongside air drivers and air sorters.

Your "lever" is the "personal holiday" and accompanying language which permits the company to deny all but 5% (plus 1 vacation day) a personal day off when requested. An "approved" personal holiday request is confirmed in writing and duly signed by a representative of the company.

If your "legal" holiday was in any jeopardy of revocation, there must also be a methodology reduced to writing to deny your right to it. No such methodology exists, or at least it didn't when your contract was ratified. Any subsequent agreement on that subject would need to be voted upon by the rank and file.

Labor law will very likely support that premise, but as I'm no "BC attorney", I cannot give you definitive confirmation. It is however your best defense, and one that a union officer best not ignore. The US Department of Labor is there to protect you from any injustice, regardless the assailant. Never forget that. Call them in if you need them.

This being said, I'll step off and let the folks who claim to be your guardians and protectors debate the issue. They, after all are the ones who should have discussed this with you months ago, since they negotiated the language to begin with.

Happy Thanksgiving to those working and those not. Remember to give thanks for all your blessings. They may be more fleeting than you know!
 
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Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
The holiday part of the contract is written perfectly and I don't understand why you 2 stump-humpers can't figure it out.

Any other day of the year, you start off as scheduled to work. If you are not required to work that day, they will ask you not to come in (personal hol. or dead day).
On the listed holidays, you start off as not scheduled to work with holiday pay. IF UPS REQUIRES YOU TO WORK, then your supplement's pay rate is shown and you have to come in.
You two are taking words literally and aren't putting the whole thing in context.

Since you both know I like to use pictures in my posts, if you can't understand the above explanation I'm going to use these next time ...

analytical-phonics-letter-blocks.jpg

Yes I am, and i have your "stump" right here.

This is how you see things:

analytical-phonics-letter-blocks_zps82e5e18d.jpg
 

SandBagger

Active Member
Yes I am, and i have your "stump" right here.

This is how you see things:

analytical-phonics-letter-blocks_zps82e5e18d.jpg
Yes I am, and i have your "stump" right here.

This is how you see things:

analytical-phonics-letter-blocks_zps82e5e18d.jpg


Darn it! I should have replied a minute or two sooner!

Let's make peace Bubblehead. Maybe the natives will follow suit and we can sit together at the festive holiday table! I don't want to end up like the Indians after Thanksgiving...

BTW- I'm still trying to figure out if you're "two stump-humpers" or if I'm one too.

What the heck is a "stump-humper" anyway?

Sounds like somebody spends more time in the woods than I do, and I didn't think that was even possible.
 

SandBagger

Active Member
Yes heard the same thing walking out last Friday. Seniority is the last of our pride in this job so let us hold onto it and give us the option instead of making it mandatory. Everyone asks me, Are you working Friday? Half of the drivers i talk to are not working. Management will start asking Monday.

You're right on all counts.

Want to make a real statement? Do what one driver I know did when management asked about planned retirement date; just laugh and walk away.
 

upsbeernut

Sometimes i feel like a nut sometimes i dont
You're right on all counts.

Want to make a real statement? Do what one driver I know did when management asked about planned retirement date; just laugh and walk away.
Man, asking when we are leaving is pretty bold and a sign that pushing the senior drivers even with a 25year safe record driving to leave early will reduce the payout. Give us a buyout of 500000 , you can keep my pension but let me stay on the health and dental at 200 a month . You want the rookies that don't complain much keep having accidents without proper training cause of money.
 
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