Gun Control Texas Style

[trplnkl]

Not at all. Your insurance company will easily cover the guns in your house. Tell them of a pool however, and watch your rates sky-rocket if they don't try to find a way to cancel you out-right. Same thing with trampolines. So when you tried to be sarcastic about the dangers of guns relative to pools, I was actually agreeing and saying that yes, pools are considered highly dangerous. So what point do you think I missed...or was it you who was confused?

Well yea ya did miss the point and I wasn't being sarcastic. The point was, pools are much more dangerous in a home environment than guns are, three times more so. Yet, you feel the need to crusade against guns. This would imply that you concern for children's safety is either misplaced or misguided. The cost of insurance for having a pool vs. a gun never crossed my mind.

I was being sarcastic about not allowing children ride in cars though, that would be ridiculous.

 

[bbsam]

How many gun owners have you specifically spoken to that have that attitude?

Whatever number that might be, how can you then fairly and accurately ascribe such attitudes towards all gun owners?

The common denominator in all of the recent "crazed gunman massacres" is that the criminals who chose to break the law had a monopoly of force to employ against those who chose to obey it.

The feel-good "gun free zone" laws that purported to protect those innocent lives in fact had just the opposite affect...it guranteed that they would be unarmed and therefore helpless.

Rational gun owners do not "fantasize" about single handedly being able to stop such massacres as you stereotypically feel that they do. Rational gun owners merely recognize the reality that no one is safer when only the criminals have the weapons and the good guys have nothing but a "gun free zone" sign to point at prior to being shot and killed by a criminal who had no intention of obeying the rule to begin with.

The only person who was armed on that terrible day at Virginia Tech was the lunatic. Would it have made a difference if I or any other law-abiding gun owner had been there and in posession of a weapon? Perhaps...perhaps not. But how could the outcome have been any worse?

I will refer you to this very website the next time a crazed gun man attacks. In fact it is inherent in this very discussion. Somehow it is believed that a society more thoroughly armed would fight back. What is that? How many times has an armed citizen taken out one of the "bad guys"? If that number is sufficiently close to zero (as I predict it would be) then the concept in itself is fantasy because there is no evidence whatsoever to back it up. Furthermore, what happens when an armed citizen in the attempt to take out a "bad guy" injures or kills an innocent bystander? Do we turn an blind eye and say, "Well your intentions were good"? Would that outcome have been worse?

 

[bbsam]

Well yea ya did miss the point and I wasn't being sarcastic. The point was, pools are much more dangerous in a home environment than guns are, three times more so. Yet, you feel the need to crusade against guns. This would imply that you concern for children's safety is either misplaced or misguided. The cost of insurance for having a pool vs. a gun never crossed my mind.

I was being sarcastic about not allowing children ride in cars though, that would be ridiculous.

Crusade against guns? Really? Is that what you think this is? I have simply stated that I don't choose to own one and am wary of allowing others to carry them at will. That, my friend, is hardly a crusade. And I feel quite certain if children played with guns throughout the summer as much as they swam in a pool, the numbers would be quite different so your illustration is hardly apples to apples. In statistics, frequency of opportunity as well as rate of occurance are both required in an accurate comparison.

 

[bbsam]

Sober--Do you really suggest that all gun owners are "rational"? I personally know many friends of Bill W who are far removed from rationality and yet 100% legal owners of firearms. I'm guessing you may also. There is all kinds of mental disease running around out there. Been a while since I've seen wide swaths of rationality break out.

 

[soberups]

Sober--Do you really suggest that all gun owners are "rational"? I personally know many friends of Bill W who are far removed from rationality and yet 100% legal owners of firearms. I'm guessing you may also. There is all kinds of mental disease running around out there. Been a while since I've seen wide swaths of rationality break out.

"Rational" is a rather subjective term.

What I do know...is that over 100 million law-abiding gun owners didnt kill or injure anyone yesterday.

I respect the fact that you choose not to own a firearm. I ask for equal respect on your part for my choice.

 

[bbsam]

"Rational" is a rather subjective term.

What I do know...is that over 100 million law-abiding gun owners didnt kill or injure anyone yesterday.

I respect the fact that you choose not to own a firearm. I ask for equal respect on your part for my choice.

You absolutely, positively have my respect for that choice and an apology for anything that gave the impression that I would not respect that choice. That was never my intent.

 

[soberups]

Crusade against guns? Really? Is that what you think this is? I have simply stated that I don't choose to own one and am wary of allowing others to carry them at will. .

I am also wary of allowing others to carry them "at will."

Unfortunately, it doesnt really matter what we as a society are "wary" of, or do and do not allow...the brutal and oft-repeated reality is that the lunatics and murderers of the world are going to carry them at will whether we "allow" them to or not.

So the question then becomes....are we collectively safer when only the murderers have the guns? And do those of us who choose not to own guns have a right to force that choice upon others?

Google the violent crime rate for the state of Florida when it passed its "shall issue" concealed carry law in 1987. Opponents of the law issued dire warnings of the "streets running red with blood" yet the violent crime rate dropped and has continued dropping ever since.

The number of states with "shall issue" (meaning that permits cannot arbitrarily be denied to otherwise qualified applicants) permits...or that require no permit at all....has risen from a mere handful in the 1980's, when the violent crime rate was far higher, to 39 today. Yet violent crime rates continue to drop.

The demonstrated reality is that we are collectively safer as a society when qualified, law-abiding citizens have the right to carry concealed weapons in public.

 

[tourists24]

I will refer you to this very website the next time a crazed gun man attacks. In fact it is inherent in this very discussion. Somehow it is believed that a society more thoroughly armed would fight back. What is that? How many times has an armed citizen taken out one of the "bad guys"? If that number is sufficiently close to zero (as I predict it would be) then the concept in itself is fantasy because there is no evidence whatsoever to back it up. Furthermore, what happens when an armed citizen in the attempt to take out a "bad guy" injures or kills an innocent bystander? Do we turn an blind eye and say, "Well your intentions were good"? Would that outcome have been worse?

It only takes ONE armed citizen to stop a crazy person. I for one have never done it but am "very" sure if I suspect my life or someone I care about has a gun pointed at them, the jerk is going down if I can hit em

 

[cachsux]

Sober--Do you really suggest that all gun owners are "rational"? I personally know many friends of Bill W who are far removed from rationality and yet 100% legal owners of firearms. I'm guessing you may also. There is all kinds of mental disease running around out there. Been a while since I've seen wide swaths of rationality break out.

A person in whatever state of mind that will do harm to another person is going to do it regardless of what they use as a weapon.

 

[bbsam]

It only takes ONE armed citizen to stop a crazy person. I for one have never done it but am "very" sure if I suspect my life or someone I care about has a gun pointed at them, the jerk is going down if I can hit em

and you say you don't fantasize. You say you haven't done it but know you could. You've played it out in your mind a hundred times. That my friend is fantasy.

 

[moreluck]

"Go ahead, make my day."

"Do ya feel lucky?"

We all do it, gun owner or not!!!

 

[tourists24]

and you say you don't fantasize. You say you haven't done it but know you could. You've played it out in your mind a hundred times. That my friend is fantasy.

in a way you are right... I have played it out well more than a hundred times. Ive had it happen to me.... when he put that gun in my face. Ive replayed it and have had time to replay and replay different scenarios. If it taught me nothing else (which it did), it was that feeling of helplessness I got when he was armed and I was not. What if I had been? One of us would have been dead. I will not be a victim again.

 

[cachsux]

and you say you don't fantasize. You say you haven't done it but know you could. You've played it out in your mind a hundred times. That my friend is fantasy.

I`ve fantasized jumping Angelina Jolie a hundred times too and the odd of that happening are about the same.

 

[bbsam]

in a way you are right... I have played it out well more than a hundred times. Ive had it happen to me.... when he put that gun in my face. Ive replayed it and have had time to replay and replay different scenarios. If it taught me nothing else (which it did), it was that feeling of helplessness I got when he was armed and I was not. What if I had been? One of us would have been dead. I will not be a victim again.

there are instances in life when we are powerless and it is not pleasant. If gun ownership remedies that feeling, then so be it. But if you are armed and he is armed and you end up dead, are you now less a victim?

 

[Lue C Fur]

I`ve fantasized jumping Angelina Jolie a hundred times too and the odd of that happening are about the same.

Lately she is looking like a bag of bones...must be on a hunger strike.

 

[tourists24]

there are instances in life when we are powerless and it is not pleasant. If gun ownership remedies that feeling, then so be it. But if you are armed and he is armed and you end up dead, are you now less a victim?

YES... absolutely... I am not a victim. If someone wants to take that chance, then I am ok with that.I will die defending myself or loved ones. I would much rather have a sporting chance than to be at their mercy. What will you do? Negotiate?

 

[bbsam]

YES... absolutely... I am not a victim. If someone wants to take that chance, then I am ok with that.I will die defending myself or loved ones. I would much rather have a sporting chance than to be at their mercy. What will you do? Negotiate?

Nope. Whatever the perp says, probably and live to see another day. And when he kills both you and me, we will both be listed as victims and the pundits will wonder why each of us took the course of action we chose. Or if we live and the perp runs away but you shoot him in the back and kill him, he gets to be the victim an you get to look at 15 to 20 years. But hey, you showed him.

 

[tourists24]

Nope. Whatever the perp says, probably and live to see another day. And when he kills both you and me, we will both be listed as victims and the pundits will wonder why each of us took the course of action we chose. Or if we live and the perp runs away but you shoot him in the back and kill him, he gets to be the victim an you get to look at 15 to 20 years. But hey, you showed him.

Im ok with that... He will be dead and will never do that again. I only know I will always have a chance. Your way there is NO chance if the perp decides to pull the trigger

 

[soberups]

YES... absolutely... I am not a victim. If someone wants to take that chance, then I am ok with that.I will die defending myself or loved ones. I would much rather have a sporting chance than to be at their mercy. What will you do? Negotiate?

Armed people can negotiate.

Unarmed people can only beg.

 

[bbsam]

Im ok with that... He will be dead and will never do that again. I only know I will always have a chance. Your way there is NO chance if the perp decides to pull the trigger

and i'm ok with that. The perp. Didn't pull the trigger on you. Maybe you didn't give him cause to do so.