Its almost laughable...

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by westsideworma, Feb 5, 2007.

  1. I have never seen a more disrespectful and arrogant group of people other than IE. Now I'm relatively young myself (mid twenties)and am a college grad using UPS for health care and to go back to school, but I am not presumptuous or ignorant like these guys seem to be. I know I don't know all there is to know about UPS and don't claim to or act like I do, but I bet I know a whole lot more about real world hub operations than these jokers.

    Today we were getting nailed at the end of the day and we're all struggling to get all the work on the trucks and low and behold the IE guys decide to observe and critique today. Our Metro Division Manager and Preload Manager were patrolling the line too giving the whole atmosphere a tense feeling (well not me so much as I'm used to it). We were wondering what the deal was. Then IE starts telling someone they need to clean up their area. My response? DUH. Did you think he was just going to leave it there? Then had the nerve to tell me I should be arranging "this" truck in stop for stop order or PAS doesn't work. My response was well what about the other ones? why is this one special? How about you try dispatching the shelves semi-evenly so that is even remotely possible and I'll worry about it. However, when the 5000 section has enough packages to fill half a truck...that becomes difficult. Or how about placing a section that is on the shelves and needs to be (and always used to be) a bulk stop in a bulk position seeing as there is an open one (I normally put it there, but when I'm out...the driver gets one messy truck) I know how PAS "works" (or doesn't in this instance) thanks. He then asked if I voiced these concerns before? I said I had been since PAS started and what has changed? absolutely nothing. I haven't lately because I had been doing it since October and nothing happened. In the "on paper" world that most of those IE guys know, they don't get why certain things happen. Like missloads or stacking. Missloads are inevitable at some point so long as human beings are sorting and loading the cars, DEAL WITH IT. The PAL system itself is also dependent on human beings to work (whether it be the SPAs or DCAP) and therefore is also susceptible to errors. Depending on the preloaders to catch all the random faults of this system is asinine. Then lynching the line supe when we don't catch all of them is equally foolish. Its almost as if they think we make mistakes on purpose.

    When our we get there we're behind already as our cages are already charged, unlike the belt to car mini-center we have in addition to the two boxlines known as the MDC. It used to be the primary started when we did, so there was no calm before the storm to empty the cages before the bulk of our work gets there, I believe at least that has changed. The MDC was the first area to get PAS and it worked decently there, but less so when they brought it to the boxlines. There could be any number of reasons why (maybe even the differences in methods I cited, but I don't really know). So if you're getting slammed by one stop, in order to keep up and get out and off the clock when you want us too, yes stacking is necessary at times.

    From what I saw we never had this many service issues on the old system and we even had perfect service day challenges and could meet them (the reward was coffee and donuts which is usually much appreciated). Perfect service now is almost a pipe dream...or at least in PAS' current form. It is easier to learn, I am NOT disputing that. However in efficiency and accuracy....its just not there yet.

    Its just sad that between all of us (drivers, preloaders, management) I know we worked together we could undoubtedly get this to work better, but they don't want to hear it, they're convinced nothing is wrong and that we're the sole reason it isn't working....funny why would a hub full of decent hardworking preloaders just up and decide to start "sucking" on purpose? Why did this also start when our hub went live on PAS? Coincidence?
  2. trickpony1

    trickpony1 Well-Known Member

    Don't cast your pearls before swine.
    They know the system isn't working. If they fix it so that everything runs "perfect" then they will be out of a job.
    Use your energy for something constructive that benefits you.
  3. EAM_Master

    EAM_Master Part-Time'er for Life!

    Same thing happened in our center when we went to PAS. We went from one or two misloads per day, to 15-20. It's gotten a lot better, but still not what it was. I do agree with you that it seems like IE doesn't want to work with us to solve anything, they just want to yell "Do it our way, or else!"
  4. LKLND3380

    LKLND3380 Active Member

    You got to love when you get a bulk stop of 25 packages coming down the belt and they are 1 of 1, 1 of 2 but never 1 of 25... I had a center manager come down the belt and I am carrying 5 packages when I start seeing these other packages heading down the belt. I start stacking the bulk outside so that I can grab all of them (so they don't get missed). The center manager starts yelling "dont stack them, get them in there..." I asked him if he was going to pull my missed work as well as for my other two cars and disapperaerd into the truck. Then I went on to re-arrange the load as there was no place to put the packages on the shelf or floor. Then he is asking what I am doing in there and I said "Making sure I have a clear walk path to get in and out of the package car..." The highlight was one of my co-workers sent down a 16 piece add/cut...

    Another highlight is being hit with RDC and since I knew the trucks I was working on, I used the RDR and RDL sections as well as parts of the 6000, 5000, 7000 and 8000 shelves. Around 7:30 a supe comes down and I have packages stacked out as well as under the belt. The supe asked if I am going to get this cleaned up. I showed him they are all Rear Door Center and I show him on the truck where the the RDR, RDL and the shelves were blown out already with RDC. I said "If I bulk it out now I wont be able to get in and out as well as put in my Airs... He walked away...
  5. canon

    canon Member

    There's more to this than some might think. I gave up on talking to my supes too about getting something/anything fixed after almost 2 years on 3 different routes. Nothing permanent ever happens, fixed one day only to be back to the same the next. Three shelves almost empty with five packed, crisscrossing drivers in neighboring loops for 2-3 stops, innacurate PAS info redirecting package to completely different address (because it reads the name instead of the address)... on and on. Recently, a driver was asking to get something changed "in the computer" so it wouldn't be a hit-or-miss fix depending on who does the dispatching. The reply was that for that to happen, IE has to approve it and they won't. It's second hand info, so take it for what it is worth. If it's true it makes sense that it is a stepping stone to look good later on when it comes time justify your job. If not, the driver supe was just saying something "new" to keep from having to actually fix it.

    Someone is acting as a buffer between those who know it's broke in a big way, and those who actually would like to see it fixed so the company is more efficient and therefore more profitable. Maybe it really is only in a few centers, or only a few routes within a center. Whatever the case may be, I would love to see something like this:

    Question on ERI:

    Problems with PAS have been adequately adressed for my route.
    O Strongly Agree
    O Agree
    O Throw my answer away
    O Disagree
    O Strongly Disagree

    For the centers that actually HAVE been working on them, no biggie. For the centers who have been dragging their feet, they now have a wakeup call to get it fixed before the next ERI. Nobody gets in trouble, PAS gets fixed.
  6. Dfigtree

    Dfigtree New Member

    So the package center genie appears to you and says "You look tired and weary. I shall grant you any three wishes you want but they must improve the package center." What three wishes do you wish?
  7. canon

    canon Member

    Just the center? How about UPS as a whole. Just three?

    1. Identify and correct problem areas in PAS such as looping and the impact on preload.

    2. Realistic time allowances.

    3. Eliminate punishment management receives for a driver being under-dispatched.
  8. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    Another wish I would add would be to let the Center Manager actually manage his Center himself, like they used to.
  9. canon

    canon Member

    You get two more... if you're not going to use them I'd like to add:

    1. Maybe ERI done monthly or bi-montly for centers with the lowest scores to encourage immediate improvement. Unless you're at the very bottom, usually no change is visible following an ERI.

    2. A visible departure from the "success by discipline" approach to running a business.
  10. DS

    DS Fenderbender

    how about an ERI every morning till you answer correctly
  11. canon

    canon Member

    yeah, that's a great idea. very helpful

    And a starbucks kiosk in the parking lot
  12. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Well-Known Member

    I'm just a lowly part-timer and I have only been at UPS for 8 years so maybe someone could answer this for me.....Why does IE have the final say and not the Center manager and/or On Car sup.?????? When I first started cover driving I would go into the office before starting reload to look at the lineup to see if I would be driving the next day. Sometimest our On Car Sup would be in there on the phone calling the main IE guy and asking if there was any way we could run one more route the next day. Nine times out of ten our Sup is right if he thinks we need another route but IE always seems to want less. Shouldn't the Sups that actually run the center have the final say?
  13. yes they should, today they decided that we should load a drivers airs who has ALWAYS had them left out (because he gives some of them to another driver). This allows him to sort and separate and get on his way. The driver supe and he had worked it out, now thanks to my new instructions he has to go through his truck (which is normally jam packed) and fish out the airs before he goes. However I did what I could for him. I put all the airs for his huge bulk stop between the wheel wells, left the resis in the 5000 (boxes) as its usually empty or very light and the smalls/letters in a tote so he could hopefully go through them almost as easily and left a note in the cab just in case so he'd know where they were and that I HAD to do it so he didn't think I was just trying to screw him.

    My drivers are normally happy with my loads (hey everyone has bad days now and then) and I get miffed when they try to decide a better way to do it when the way I do it works just fine for them. In my mind they are the ones delivering it, they should have it loaded the way they want, not the way people who won't be riding with those packages 8-10 (or 12..gulp) hours a day want it. I know my supes are just following orders from above, but its just sad because the people above have usually lost touch with how operations works. I haven't been there that long, but I know what will work and what wont when i hear the new "trends" they wish to implement. They do too, but they are just doing what they're told.
  14. HazMatMan

    HazMatMan New Member

    1) Hit Lotto

    2) Hit Lotto

    3) Hit Lotto

    It won't improve the center but hey, who cares???
  15. canon

    canon Member

    When you win take us with u.
  16. rushfan

    rushfan Well-Known Member

    That's right, just look how well PAS is in our center. We driver 250 more miles as a center...compared to not being on PAS. If IE gave a [email protected]#$ about the loops, and not their schedule, our center would be running efficiently JMHO.
  17. DS

    DS Fenderbender

    Man, this could be a whole new thread.Ok how about this,
    1... eliminate PAS...
    2... eliminate preload...
    Allow one driver to start at 5:00 AM and load the 3 cars in his loop.resulting in next to no misloads
    and a next to perfect load in each car.
    have part timers start at 4:00PM to keep FT
    drivers under 9.5...
    3...minimize supervisors...allow drivers to start
    15 minutes before leaving the building to fix
    overdispatching and other possible service failures.
    I know ...I`m dreaming....
  18. lost

    lost Member

    My personal favorite is when we tell the dispatch sup Its not going to fit, and We are told to make it. Oh ok well lets go get a car extender so we can make it fit!!! these are package cars not feeders!!!
  19. JustTired

    JustTired free at last.......

    The whole pas/edd thing is a joke. Somebody, somewhere, sold the company a bill of goods (not to mention a lot of computers) when they came up with this brainstorm.

    The whole idea behind it, in my opinion, was so that they could replace everyone with non-union people in the near future. In 97 the company was caught with their pants down when we went on strike. This system was developed as a tool so that in the event of another strike, they would be able to replace everybody with minimal effort.

    Unfortunately (or fortunately), when they set this thing up, they failed to get the input of the experts (the people who actually do the work....drivers, preloaders,etc.). They brought in people with no area knowledge (and limited ability to read a map) and proceeded to screw things up royal. Not only are miles up drastically, but the paid day is up proportionately.

    Even though the system does not work, they continue to implement it nationwide. Why?......Because they spent hundreds of millions of dollars and by God it is going to work. And if it doesn't work, they will not have a "leg up" on the Teamsters should it come down to another strike.

    The system is not inherently bad...... it's the implementation without input from the people who would know best how to do it. Of course, this is just my opinion.

  20. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Well-Known Member

    We don't even have PAS/EDD yet but just reading about it here makes me think that it will suck when we finally do get it. If it really is that bad then maybe EVERYONE should push that the issue be addressed in the contract negotiations. I remember getting a form in the mail before the current contract was being negotiated. It asked me to list my concerns about the current contract and what issues should be addressed while negotiating the next one. If everyone would complain about PAS/EDD there than it might get addressed. It sounds the system would work if IE and Management would just listen.