management layoffs

atatbl

Well-Known Member
Im pretty sure i made a good argument. Why dont we have 3 point seat belts?
The company wants to be known as the safest around, yet they are replacing our current seat belts with the new telematics, but not upgrading?

Why does the current sales lead program still cost us customers because it does not work?

Why would the company pay overtime and triple time to over work drivers, while you have lower paid junior drivers at home on daily layoffs, so they still receive pension and benefits?

So instead of running on foaming at the mouth, maybe explain or debate/counter my opinion!

Your turn!

Sorry for the length.... For those with short attention spans the important part is in bold.

You did not make a good argument. All you did was say that UPS is greedy for making 5 billion dollars and screwing the workers over in the aftermath. Then you went on to say that the management at UPS is making poor choices.

This is not an argument. It is simply two different premises to a bigger argument. What you fail to realize is that these premises are inherently contradictory.

Wait.... there is ONE possible way that both these premises could be true at the same time...... UPS management is not running the company. I think everyone here would agree that there is not some conspiratorial third party running UPS from the shadows.

Furthermore, you did not respond to my post. All you did was bring up three different points that I did not (nor did you on the post I was responding to) bring up. It's hard to have a real discussion with someone that is being this whimsical with logic. I am really not trying to insult you. What you just did was change the context to something unrelated and tell me to debate you. Ridiculous.

I will not "counter/debate" (In quotes because your definition is certainly not acceptable to standard intellect) random premises that you continue to throw out. You are using these as gorilla dust to TRY and disguise the idiocy you are preaching.

No one will ever prove you wrong because your argument is constantly changing. We all know what you are doing. You are not smarter than everyone here. What's more is that I am not the first person to call you out on this.

Your normal recourse here is to regroup, rethink and then make some bold and asinine argument like "the company is bad, prove me wrong"

Let's not forget what just happened here.

I did this:

1. Brought the fact to attention that you argued, vehemently, two contradictory conclusions.

You then:

1. Said "Im pretty sure i made a good argument"
2. Brought in three random ideas that had not been previously mentioned in our discussion.
3. AND THEN... Here's the kicker that made me lol, challenged me to "stop foaming at the mouth" and "counter/debate" you.


If you cannot understand how neanderthal-like this makes your attempts to prove your points, it's no wonder people ONLY support you when you have THEIR interests in mind.
 
Why would the company pay overtime and triple time to over work drivers, while you have lower paid junior drivers at home on daily layoffs, so they still receive pension and benefits?



I think that the reason those lower paid junior drivers are at home, still collecting, is because if they were working and the senior, higher paid drivers were at home, there would be desks full of grievances....
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Sorry for the length.... For those with short attention spans the important part is in bold.

You did not make a good argument. All you did was say that UPS is greedy for making 5 billion dollars and screwing the workers over in the aftermath. Then you went on to say that the management at UPS is making poor choices.

Are you taking the stance that the company is not profitable while still making poor decisions?

I have been with ups for 15 years and i have watched ups grow and become more profitable year after year. And i have seen ups make bad decisions while being profitable, so its pretty obvious that it can and has happened.

There are also some great things ups has done and they do deserve credit for. But not on what i had mentioned in my post that you quoted!

This is not an argument. It is simply two different premises to a bigger argument. What you fail to realize is that these premises are inherently contradictory.

There's nothing to argue! I asked you to simply explaining what the benefits were of what i claimed to be bad decisions and you choose not to. As i explained above it has happened! Profitable and bad decision making, it does not take a rocket scientist to see it!


Wait.... there is ONE possible way that both these premises could be true at the same time...... UPS management is not running the company. I think everyone here would agree that there is not some conspiratorial third party running UPS from the shadows.

Actually the company is being run by a third party! The ceo is not a upser true and through!

Furthermore, you did not respond to my post. All you did was bring up three different points that I did not (nor did you on the post I was responding to) bring up. It's hard to have a real discussion with someone that is being this whimsical with logic. I am really not trying to insult you. What you just did was change the context to something unrelated and tell me to debate you. Ridiculous.

If your going to quote a post of mine and ask for logic than expect to get it! If you cant debate the post that your quoting, maybe you should not quote it! I explained in small detail why i posted a few bad decisions that have been made, and you call it ridiculous, but you do not defend or debate your views! Why?

I will not "counter/debate" (In quotes because your definition is certainly not acceptable to standard intellect) random premises that you continue to throw out. You are using these as gorilla dust to TRY and disguise the idiocy you are preaching.

Of course you wont! You have no argument to make! I have posted my opinion, and if you don't like it, pound sand! If you feel so strong that i am wrong on my views why don't you just point out your stance, in a civil debate? You would rather sit and hide behind the computer running around in circles dodging!

No one will ever prove you wrong because your argument is constantly changing. We all know what you are doing. You are not smarter than everyone here. What's more is that I am not the first person to call you out on this.

An opinion is never wrong! Either you agree or disagree! Call me out? In the real world you will not always get along with everyone, and i understand that its hard for you to believe its the same in cyberspace! I don't give a rats ass if you or anyone does not like me, i'm not on here to be liked! I do not think that i am better than anyone here, ok maybe just you, but I'm no better than everyone else that has worked their ways up through ups!

Your normal recourse here is to regroup, rethink and then make some bold and asinine argument like "the company is bad, prove me wrong"

Let's not forget what just happened here.

I did this:

1. Brought the fact to attention that you argued, vehemently, two contradictory conclusions.

You then:

1. Said "Im pretty sure i made a good argument"
2. Brought in three random ideas that had not been previously mentioned in our discussion.
3. AND THEN... Here's the kicker that made me lol, challenged me to "stop foaming at the mouth" and "counter/debate" you.


If you cannot understand how neanderthal-like this makes your attempts to prove your points, it's no wonder people ONLY support you when you have THEIR interests in mind.
Sorry me go pull wife by hair back in cave!

Its real easy to come to a conclusion over the internet without every meeting someone! I don't care if you debate or not, i spoke my mind, and if its to much for someone of your schooling than i do apologize for confusing the piss out of you!
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Att, you dont have to like me, or my posts. If you dont like reading them just put me on ignore. Im no different in person than i am on here, some like it, some dont, but i like being me!

Im done unless you want to continue.
 

atatbl

Well-Known Member
Att, you dont have to like me, or my posts. If you dont like reading them just put me on ignore. Im no different in person than i am on here, some like it, some dont, but i like being me!

Im done unless you want to continue.

I would go through your counter statement point by point, but that would be wasting both your time and mine.... much more mine by having to manually re-quote.

I will hit on this point though.

You said:

Are you taking the stance that the company is not profitable while still making poor decisions?

I have been with ups for 15 years and i have watched ups grow and become more profitable year after year. And i have seen ups make bad decisions while being profitable, so its pretty obvious that it can and has happened.

There are also some great things ups has done and they do deserve credit for. But not on what i had mentioned in my post that you quoted!

What you are intrinsically implying is that the company could have made MORE than 5 billion had things been done better. I won't argue about it, I just wanted to point it out. I did realize this was in the cascade of your argument, but I did not think you would type it. It is my stance that the opinion of UPS being able to make a substantial amount more than that last year is simply reckless theorizing. Which is why I won't argue. I do not think tacking on another 50 million, or so, to that number would have been plausible. But that is where we will agree to disagree.

I guess we will continue to agree to disagree about UPS management's skills in running the business. I will not play devil's advocate to every decision you have deemed "bad" in the management's history. The reason I won't do this is because it is done on a much higher corporate level than you and I every single day.

To be honest, I get the impression you relate someone you deem as a horrible center manger equal to the people making major financial (read: safety, advertising, regional production goals, cost cutting, layoffs, promotions) decisions for our company on a daily and monthly basis. This is simply not the case. It's corporate America. UPS is unique in the fact that management is only telling you to go get sales leads and not making you regurgitate cookie cutter sales strategies about gift cards, "always be closing", applying for a company's credit card, etc., etc.

I didn't say anything about not liking you. I am not sure why you brought that up a couple of times. I explained, maybe harshly, the difference in opinion I had with your posts. I do not believe judging UPS' current management's results is opinion. It is fact. Real numbers. Either they are doing their job or they aren't. I guess I am forced to call your view that they are not making extremely smart and well advised decisions an opinion. The only reason I do this is because it is certainly not based on fact or logic.
 

rocket man

Well-Known Member
they should get rid of dispatchers have the on roads route out there groups, they might acctaually ask how the route should be put in order just a thought.
 

whiskey

Well-Known Member
There won't be any layoffs of management, but those gone through attrition will not be replaced, increasing the work load of those remaining. Even center manager's will be dressed in Brown's running off packages. The Union will look the other way because of the threat of job losses to low seniority drivers due to a marked decrease in volume.
 

Speed Demon

Member
haha..I will never part with my turkey coupon. The coupon itself is worth way more than the turkey. I will be able to whip that thing out years from now and show my workmates and get a great laugh. I like to refer to as The Gratitude Raincheck..It will go right next to my 2009 calender. Thats a whole new post there.

Better hold onto last year's Turkey Coupon...just got the word last week that the turkey coupon is gone for 2009...another victim of cost-cutting.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
they should get rid of dispatchers have the on roads route out there groups, they might actually ask how the route should be put in order just a thought.

When I looped centers and planned dispatches back in the 80's, I heavily relied on the drivers to get it right. I would try to get a base plan and after reviewing with people with experience, it was very different. Nothing like actual route experience.
 

backinbrown

respect my authority
There won't be any layoffs of management, but those gone through attrition will not be replaced, increasing the work load of those remaining. Even center manager's will be dressed in Brown's running off packages. The Union will look the other way because of the threat of job losses to low seniority drivers due to a marked decrease in volume.
what?

No way makes no sence

if center manager sup whoever is running route and any driver regardless of senoirity is layed off there is a problem. and it is breaking the contract.

the fact that we are in dire times and people are being layed of has nothing to do with sup's working, we will not look the other way that is not saving jobs, fixing the problem of management working is a start.
 
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