Pathetic Purple FPP Payout

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I don't know how I'm going to retire? Where on EARTH did you get that idea? That's the point of a Roth IRA and a 401(k). My idea of retirement planning is to take an active role in feathering the bed with money than an employer can't take away or mess with. That's the money I'm going to live off of when I get old. Any pension income will be treated as found money.

I never said I made my money from FedEx. I've always had real estate going on the side, and that's where I did well. FedEx is just a job that has benefits (not very good ones) that allowed me to do other things. Real estate agents are truly independent contractors, who work when they need to and set their own schedule. And I'm not rich. I've just done a lot better than I would have working solely as a FedEx wage slave. I don't drive really expensive cars, and my home is nice ,but not a mansion or even that big.

I took the time to get an education, and one of the things I learned was that I was never going to make great money working for someone else. Considering the long hours most managers work, they make peanuts on an hourly basis. I've invested well, and am happy I didn't choose to become completely owned by FedEx.


ROTFLMAO!!! You're wealthy, you're smart, you know the higher-ups, and you're well-educated... yet here you are 20 years later in the same spot with excuses for why you never tried to get a better position (doesn't have to be mgmt, y'know). I've got a lot of similar excuses for why I'm not playing in the NBA, but I don't whine about how those guys make all that money.

I don't begrudge a person's decision to be a career courier. If that's what someone wants to do then he should do it. Regardless of the reasons for that choice, there is the implicit understanding that those who don't seek professional growth and development aren't going to see much growth in pay. Bitterness and regret over the path you willingly chose won't do you any good.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I find it hilarious that anytime I post here, I'm accused of being "sent." I find it sad that if you make any kind of decently-reasoned post without saying things like "FRED WANTS TO EAT YOUR SOUL. FRED WANTS YOU TO BE A SLAVE. THE EXECS ARE SCUM WHO LIGHT CIGARS WITH $100 BILLS" then you're accused of being on their side.

If you turn it up all the way to 10 with every post on every topic, get overly defensive, and lash out so harshly when anyone dares to question anything you say, then you won't be taken seriously. That kind of mentality REEKS of the one or two guys in every workgroup whom everyone ignores because they're tired of listening to them piss and moan about anything and everything.


It is pretty strange that all of the usual suspects re-appear just as the Teamsters gain a foothold in Canada. Why did you choose the last week to suddenly come back to the BC? I can't prove anything...it just smells bad.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
It is pretty strange that all of the usual suspects re-appear just as the Teamsters gain a foothold in Canada. Why did you choose the last week to suddenly come back to the BC? I can't prove anything...it just smells bad.
The same could be said for both sides. The fedex section of BC was awfully quiet for a while. Washu kept posting on 6 month old topics on airline tickets and that was about it.:peaceful:
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
I pointed this out on another forum. In early 2007 when it was announced that the traditional pension would be terminated, at approximately the same time Fred S was telling Wall Street that FedEx would increase profit margins to 10%. How do I know that? It was reported in the Wall Street Journal, and using Google to verify I found the minutes of the quarterly teleconference between FedEx exec's and representatives of major Wall Street investment firms. At the time the profit margin was running at about 6.7 or 6.8%. That would increase profits over a billion dollars a year! So where did the extra money come from? Reminds me of the statement Fred S made in the mid-90's in the monthly World Wide Update we used to receive in the mail. We had as topped out couriers gone about 3 years without a raise at that point and Mr. Smith told us that to give a 2% raise across the board to topped out employees would cost the company an extra 30 million a year and they just couldn't afford it. That was the same time that they announced to Wall Street that they had earned a 250 million dollar profit in one quarter for the first time. But couldn't afford a 30 million dollar A YEAR raise?

I'm a rehire, got frustrated with lack of raises and quit. Tried my own business, came up short, found out there was a FedEx station in my hometown after moving back in with my parents. I had worked 11 years before quitting as a long time topped out courier. But was rehired at $10.85hr after 15 months away. OK, I screwed up, will just gut it out for the 7 or 8 years it takes to top out again, according to my and other mgrs. At least I can continue to add to my pension. That was over 11 years ago.

That's what really bothers me about the tone some here have taken. There was a time when a courier position was treated as an honorable profession with a future by this company. To say now that we were stupid to take an entry level position and stay in it when it was always represented as a solid job with a future is disingenuous. We came to work knowing that if we worked hard, and we did, that while we wouldn't get rich, we would be rewarded enough for our efforts to take care of our families. But the company made some very costly mistakes, like Zap Mail, and discovered they could cover their mistakes by taking from the rank and file. Soon we were seen as a source of profit enhancement. Year over year our benefits were stripped until the ultimate betrayal, taking our traditional pension. And reasonable pay for what we do fell by the way side too. All while telling us and the world that they care about their people. And why? Why did they do all this? To make extraordinary amounts of money for a relative few.

So now some want to tell us to stop our whining, take it like a man, life's hard, get over it. So that's what our society has come to, accept your lot in life which is help the rich to get ever richer while you struggle. But hey, if you are a clever fellow you can be an enabler, pushing your former coworkers to the limits in exchange for a better future for yourself. And you wonder why extremists like Obama and company got into power?

So if i don't like it, why not leave? Where am I going to go at 48 in this economy?

If "People-Service-Profit" was ever more than a slogan, if the company's people were ever first in that equation, if they truly care about our lives, our families, our future, then take the necessary steps to restore our faith in a company that I for one used to be willing to do wind sprints for.

At this point in our history it's crucial that everyone stand up for themselves. Because as they've stripped away everything to increase profits and maintain a high stock price, they are about out of options. To continue down this path they will have to do some serious restructuring, marching towards the inevitable contractor model. Regular employees in large numbers may very well become a footnote in this company's history. And we were the ones used to "make it happen on the frontline."
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
It is pretty strange that all of the usual suspects re-appear just as the Teamsters gain a foothold in Canada. Why did you choose the last week to suddenly come back to the BC? I can't prove anything...it just smells bad.

You've already made up your mind about that, so I don't guess that trying to treat you like a grown-up will do any good. Lord knows others have tried and failed. All I can do is recognize that you're paranoid and feed into it. Soooo....

Me and the other guys met at Fred's house and voted to show back up here. That vote in Canada? We went up there and waged a double-secret propaganda campaign to make sure the Teamsters WON just so we could all show up here at the same time and watch you trip over your own feet looking for black helicopters, the four horsemen, etc.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Read vantexan's post and get a clue...he nailed it. You can call me names all day long, but the fact remains that there have been several people who showed-up exactly on cue at appropriate times. FedEx4Life was probably a plant, and had the same username on several other sites. Funny how he acted like a maroon here, and would then correct his spelling and vocabulary at the other places.

You never answered me before when I mentioned the Teamsters in Canada and how Smith would somehow figure-out a way to get rid of the enemy within. Do you think he's at all concerned and that he might be inspired to start anew a campaign of disinformation designed to make employee think unionizing is a bad idea? You make Patrick Star look like a genius.
 

Broke

Well-Known Member
It is pretty strange that all of the usual suspects re-appear just as the Teamsters gain a foothold in Canada. Why did you choose the last week to suddenly come back to the BC? I can't prove anything...it just smells bad.
It's about time for thechad1980 to reappear. Anyone remember that person? He even admitted that his time here was about over in one of his last posts here. That probably meant that it was part of his job being here and responding on the company's behalf.
 

quadro

Well-Known Member
Read vantexan's post and get a clue...he nailed it.
Except for the parts he got wrong. Take a look at the 10K from 2007. His numbers are wrong, especially the part about how much profit would increase if the profit margin (i presume he means operating margin) changed to 10%.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Except for the parts he got wrong. Take a look at the 10K from 2007. His numbers are wrong, especially the part about how much profit would increase if the profit margin (i presume he means operating margin) changed to 10%.

I'm not going to pick him apart for technicalities. His message is right on the money. Smith screwed-us then and he's screwing-us now to jack-up profits at our expense. That's what I got out of it. I don't know what the Express operating ratio is, but I suspect it's pretty good compared to UPS. Again, most of the advantage comes from you and me in the form of lower labor costs, and not because FedEx is better managed than Brown.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
I'm just pointing out what Fred S told Wall Street reps in a teleconference at about the same time we were told that the pension plan would be terminated in 2008. That's a fact and I believe the extra money saved from funding our pension plan was used to show an increase in profit to show growth and keep Wall Street analysts happy. If a company grosses, say, 35 billion, and improves profit by 3%, isn't 3% of 35 billion more than 1 billion dollars? Feel free to show me my error, I want this to be accurate. Not being snide, I sincerely want correct info. By the way, not saying the extra pension money alone was used, only that it contributed to the goal of 10% that Fred S predicted. Whether or not we ever hit that goal, I don't know. But it's obvious that maintaining high profits and a high stock price is what's important.
 

quadro

Well-Known Member
I'm just pointing out what Fred S told Wall Street reps in a teleconference at about the same time we were told that the pension plan would be terminated in 2008. That's a fact and I believe the extra money saved from funding our pension plan was used to show an increase in profit to show growth and keep Wall Street analysts happy. If a company grosses, say, 35 billion, and improves profit by 3%, isn't 3% of 35 billion more than 1 billion dollars? Feel free to show me my error, I want this to be accurate. Not being snide, I sincerely want correct info. By the way, not saying the extra pension money alone was used, only that it contributed to the goal of 10% that Fred S predicted. Whether or not we ever hit that goal, I don't know. But it's obvious that maintaining high profits and a high stock price is what's important.
I haven't gone back and listened to or read a transcript of the teleconference but in all likelihood Fred was talking about operating margin. Basically, that's the gross (35 billion) less all your expenses like salary, etc. Don't know if Fred was talking about Express or FDX. For 2007 Express operating margin was about 8.6%. For FDX it was 9.3%. So for Express, the 1.4% increase would be an additional about $313 million. That can come from additional gross income or less expenses or a combination of both.
I would highly encourage you to read up on the Pension Protection Act of 2006 as it was that act that triggered the change in the way companies account for their defined benefit plans. Specifically how the annual contribution is determined. You'll also find that there were many large companies that ended their defined benefit plans because of this. Now, I'm not saying whether or not FedEx should have or could have continued making the substantially larger contributions. I get why people are upset about the loss of the plan but I also understand the economics of it. It is very easy to jump on the bandwagon on one side or the other but it makes no difference if you are not informed. Do the research and don't listen to the rhetoric no matter which side it comes from. That way you'll know that you are making educated decisions.
 

MD10MECH

Member
So true.
I haven't gone back and listened to or read a transcript of the teleconference but in all likelihood Fred was talking about operating margin. Basically, that's the gross (35 billion) less all your expenses like salary, etc. Don't know if Fred was talking about Express or FDX. For 2007 Express operating margin was about 8.6%. For FDX it was 9.3%. So for Express, the 1.4% increase would be an additional about $313 million. That can come from additional gross income or less expenses or a combination of both.
I would highly encourage you to read up on the Pension Protection Act of 2006 as it was that act that triggered the change in the way companies account for their defined benefit plans. Specifically how the annual contribution is determined. You'll also find that there were many large companies that ended their defined benefit plans because of this. Now, I'm not saying whether or not FedEx should have or could have continued making the substantially larger contributions. I get why people are upset about the loss of the plan but I also understand the economics of it. It is very easy to jump on the bandwagon on one side or the other but it makes no difference if you are not informed. Do the research and don't listen to the rhetoric no matter which side it comes from. That way you'll know that you are making educated decisions.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
I did read that transcript, and I'm certain that Fred S said FedEx was going to increase profit margins to 10%, and I'm thinking the after tax profit margin was either 6.7 or 6.8% at the time. Remember also that he said this in early 2007. Funding for the traditional pension continued at the same level until it was terminated mid-2008. And the economy fell apart not long after. So I doubt a 10% profit margin was ever achieved. But that's not the point. The point I'm making is that they were willing to take the traditional pension away to achieve their profit goals. I've heard about the accounting rules changes a number of times, but let me ask you a question. If the Portable Pension Plan was implemented only to satsify the new accounting rules, why doesn't it pay as much as the traditional pension did? And with all due respect, I don't need your patronization. I've experienced things at the hands of bad mgrs that I'm 100% certain very few other couriers have experienced. You could say that my experiences plus the company's reneging on promises have radicalized me. Some posts of mine on another forum may have gotten a senior mgr demoted and an ops mgr fired. The company you represent is telling me that my work isn't worth as much as a topped out employee's, inspite of over 22 years total on the clock, over 11 since being rehired. You folks who say we are stupid to stay in an "entry level" position are obviously right. I was stupid to believe that FedEx would honor the choice we made a number of years ago to either keep the traditional pension or take the portable pension. I chose to remain in the traditional pension and they should honor that choice. So why doesn't the portable pension pay as much as the traditional pension? Accounting rules won't allow it? OK, I'm being snide here.:rofl:
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
OK, mea culpa, it was "operating margins." This from the FedEx F3Q07 Earnings Call transcript, quoting Fred S on March 21st, 2007:

"As I conclude, I'd like to remind you of our steadfast goals to grow our revenue at approximately 10% per year, achieve 10% plus operating margins, to increase earnings per share of 10% to 15% per year over the long haul, improve cash flows, and increase returns on investments."

When I read that about 2 months after the announcement of our pension termination, I believed then what I still believe, that they took away our traditional pension to help FedEx achieve the goals he stated above. If it was a stand alone event I'd feel differently, but there's a long paper trail extending back almost 2 decades of their taking away from the employees to impress Wall Street. And now the job is, as you mgrs here are saying, an entry level job with no future. And you'll get what you pay for. Good luck with that!
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
Read vantexan's post and get a clue...he nailed it. You can call me names all day long, but the fact remains that there have been several people who showed-up exactly on cue at appropriate times. FedEx4Life was probably a plant, and had the same username on several other sites. Funny how he acted like a maroon here, and would then correct his spelling and vocabulary at the other places.

You never answered me before when I mentioned the Teamsters in Canada and how Smith would somehow figure-out a way to get rid of the enemy within. Do you think he's at all concerned and that he might be inspired to start anew a campaign of disinformation designed to make employee think unionizing is a bad idea? You make Patrick Star look like a genius.

I doubt most employees don't know about the Canadian Teamsters. If they do, good for them. As for what Fred has in mind, I have no idea. Why don't you ask him instead?

Or did you already convince yourself that I'm a 'plant' sent by Maury?
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
You folks who say we are stupid to stay in an "entry level" position are obviously right.

The entry-level remark was tongue-in-cheek (which is why i included the footnote notation with the comment referencing turnabout being fair play) and directed solely at MrFedEx for the tacky remarks he's made on several occasion about Ground drivers and his perception their aptitudes and abilities. I figured that he should be judged in the same manner that he's judging them.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I doubt most employees don't know about the Canadian Teamsters. If they do, good for them. As for what Fred has in mind, I have no idea. Why don't you ask him instead?

Or did you already convince yourself that I'm a 'plant' sent by Maury?

Fred is not accessible to the average employee. Try sending him an email and see what happens, OK? I know someone that did, and their senior manager got a call saying to "never contact Mr Smith". If I were an influential politician, it would OK to call Fred any old time.

Were you around when FedEx purcheased Flying Tigers in 1989? Tigers had a very profitable business doing passenger charters with QC (Quick-Change) aircraft that could easily be converted from freight to people-hauling. The only problem was that Tigers flight attendants were union and wouldn't de-certify like all the other Tigers did (with a gun at their heads). Smith eliminated the service, even though it was making big money, just to get rid of the union employees.
 

quadro

Well-Known Member
Funding for the traditional pension continued at the same level until it was terminated mid-2008. And the economy fell apart not long after. So I doubt a 10% profit margin was ever achieved. But that's not the point. The point I'm making is that they were willing to take the traditional pension away to achieve their profit goals.
That's why I encourage you to review the Portable Pension Act. Funding continued until mid-2008 because the accounting change didn't go into effect for FedEx until June 1, 2008. IMHO, FedEx didn't take away the traditional plan to achieve profit goals, they switched because they would have been required to invest over $1billion for the 2008-2009 plan year. For 2008, Express operating income was about $1.9billion so over 50% of the years operating income would have had to go into the pension plan.
I've heard about the accounting rules changes a number of times, but let me ask you a question. If the Portable Pension Plan was implemented only to satsify the new accounting rules, why doesn't it pay as much as the traditional pension did?
See above. It's not that the PPP was implemented to satisfy accounting rules, it's that the rules made a defined benefit plan prohibitively expensive. It doesn't pay as much because it's a different type of plan.
And with all due respect, I don't need your patronization.
Wasn't aware that I was patronizing. I was just answering your questions.
The company you represent is telling me that my work isn't worth as much as a topped out employee's, inspite of over 22 years total on the clock, over 11 since being rehired.
What about the 22 year employee who has no break in service? Your logic would imply they are worth more than you and I would tend to agree. So how do you differentiate their pay from yours?
You folks who say we are stupid to stay in an "entry level" position are obviously right. I was stupid to believe that FedEx would honor the choice we made a number of years ago to either keep the traditional pension or take the portable pension. I chose to remain in the traditional pension and they should honor that choice. So why doesn't the portable pension pay as much as the traditional pension? Accounting rules won't allow it? OK, I'm being snide here.:rofl:
I never said you or anyone else was stupid. If you or anyone else is not happy in their position, whatever that position is, then I would say go find a different position, either at FedEx or somewhere else. FedEx is not the only company out there and I don't think anyone is saying it is. Also, when the PPP was first offered, who knew for sure that the PPA of 2006 would substantially change the rules to where it just wasn't economically the right decision to keep the defined benefit. And honestly, did FedEx "promise" you anything? I'd love to see anything that promises or guarantees a defined benefit plan. People may have a very negative view of FedEx but I'm pretty sure they know FedEx isn't that stupid.
 

quadro

Well-Known Member
I'm not going to pick him apart for technicalities. His message is right on the money. Smith screwed-us then and he's screwing-us now to jack-up profits at our expense. That's what I got out of it. I don't know what the Express operating ratio is, but I suspect it's pretty good compared to UPS. Again, most of the advantage comes from you and me in the form of lower labor costs, and not because FedEx is better managed than Brown.
Oh come on! Complete mis-statement of important facts and it's just a technicality? Had that post been in support of FedEx you would have been all over it. Instead you got out of it what you wanted to get out of it. I would think that a good part of it also comes from the additional ~$15billion that UPS generates in revenue. I don't think FedEx is better managed than Brown, at least not from a top down perspective.
 
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