Stupid arguments about the Ground business model

[FedGT]

Coming from a guy who is no longer contracted with Ground.

My point is about the T's and I's is RPS/Ground legal department is very specific on how we documented our actions with contractors. You would never know this as you were a contractor and you didn't see this. If something came up legally, RPS/Ground, was ready for a challenge because of this. I am guessing if you had a problem, you were not prepared and documented your problems. I know for a fact that contractors did win all cases against the company. If RPS/Ground did not have a solid case, as in terminating a contract, they did nothing, contractor was not terminated.

Bacha, you seem to know everything there is about the past contracting with RPS/Ground, but I can tell you from experience, you don't. I couldn't care less if you were lied to, you live in the most poverty stricken, mud slick roads with four foot deep snow in the mountains with no sunlight. You knew the area you were at and you kept contracting with the company. I would have felt sorry for you were misled if you left within five years, but if I remember right you went over 20 years. You knew what you were in and kept going, that is on you, not Ground.

Here comes the bacha reply:

 

[vantexan]

Does that include Watergate, Iran Contra, Operation Ajax and Don Trumploeone's shake down of Georgia election officials?

Says the guy who defended Hunter Biden.

 

[dmac1]

Tell that to all the people who got more in their pockets. You're desperate to put down anything positive Republicans do.

The people who got 'more in their pockets' now will have to pay it back with interest. Because the amount of the 'cut' was added to the debt, it was just a deferral of taxes, not a true cut.

 

[dmac1]

Says the guy who defended Hunter Biden.

Hunter Biden is not an elected official.

 

[vantexan]

Hunter Biden is not an elected official.

Peddling his father's influence matters.

 

[vantexan]

The people who got 'more in their pockets' now will have to pay it back with interest. Because the amount of the 'cut' was added to the debt, it was just a deferral of taxes, not a true cut.

So when Obama cut payroll taxes which impacted Social Security that really wasn't a tax cut huh? And don't worry, we'll inflate our way out of this mess much as we did in the late 70's early 80's.

 

[Fred's Myth]

The people who got 'more in their pockets' now will have to pay it back with interest. Because the amount of the 'cut' was added to the debt, it was just a deferral of taxes, not a true cut.

Then, by your logic, the more the government taxes us, the more we have in our pockets.

Brilliant!

 

[Working4the1%]

Peddling his father's influence matters.

I just need 11,470 votes..find them..

 

[vantexan]

I just need 11,470 votes..find them..

I wonder if he made millions off that deal like Joe and Hunter did with theirs?

 

[Working4the1%]

Tick Tock...BOOM... sweet GEORGIA. Contractor scam is now headed for extinction

 

[bacha29]

Coming from a guy who is no longer contracted with Ground.

My point is about the T's and I's is RPS/Ground legal department is very specific on how we documented our actions with contractors. You would never know this as you were a contractor and you didn't see this. If something came up legally, RPS/Ground, was ready for a challenge because of this. I am guessing if you had a problem, you were not prepared and documented your problems. I know for a fact that contractors did win all cases against the company. If RPS/Ground did not have a solid case, as in terminating a contract, they did nothing, contractor was not terminated.

Bacha, you seem to know everything there is about the past contracting with RPS/Ground, but I can tell you from experience, you don't. I couldn't care less if you were lied to, you live in the most poverty stricken, mud slick roads with four foot deep snow in the mountains with no sunlight. You knew the area you were at and you kept contracting with the company. I would have felt sorry for you were misled if you left within five years, but if I remember right you went over 20 years. You knew what you were in and kept going, that is on you, not Ground.

You no longer for for them either. So why did you leave? And furthermore why do you continue to stand in such rigid and undying defense of a company you no longer work for? As for the area in which I live , you have clearly chosen to ignore another important fact. RPS/FXG is a NATIONWIDE carrier. One that is required to serve every zip regardless of demographics, climate terrain or topography. As for court cases it was only under the threat of a DOJ/IRS lawsuit did Sullivan grudgingly grant contractors goodwill. So the question is....just exactly what necessitated such extreme measures?

Granted, your former employer made no attempt to hide the fact that it has and continues make it clear that it never was and never will be in the business of building equity and enterprise for third party individuals and evidenced by it's initial resistance to the granting of goodwill. It's sole objective was to dump as much risk liability and variable costs as it can possible dump onto other individuals while maintaining absolute command and control including a complete intolerance for dissent. In addition there are no contractor elected members sitting on the company board of directors despite the continued increase in their investment. An investment whose fate is decided in that boardroom As a result their investment has zero vote, zero representation and in doing so making that investment 100% totally unsecured and therefore placing the fate of that investment in the hands of another individual who will always place their own interests ahead of the contractor.

So let's see what you have to say in the face of these facts. And by the way there is no honor among liars despite your best efforts to the contrary.... Obviously during your time of employment you too have made quite few trips to the Fedex Mind Control And Reeducation Academy as well.

 

[bacha29]

I just need 11,470 votes..find them..

In keeping with that this AM at the rally of Trump supporters Donny Jr. got up in front of that group of clueless people and proclaimed that the GOP belongs to Donald Trump. I always believed that the GOP belongs to the people who comprise it's registered membership.

 

[oldrps]

You no longer for for them either. So why did you leave? And furthermore why do you continue to stand in such rigid and undying defense of a company you no longer work for? As for the area in which I live , you have clearly chosen to ignore another important fact. RPS/FXG is a NATIONWIDE carrier. One that is required to serve every zip regardless of demographics, climate terrain or topography. As for court cases it was only under the threat of a DOJ/IRS lawsuit did Sullivan grudgingly grant contractors goodwill. So the question is....just exactly what necessitated such extreme measures?

Granted, your former employer made no attempt to hide the fact that it has and continues make it clear that it never was and never will be in the business of building equity and enterprise for third party individuals and evidenced by it's initial resistance to the granting of goodwill. It's sole objective was to dump as much risk liability and variable costs as it can possible dump onto other individuals while maintaining absolute command and control including a complete intolerance for dissent. In addition there are no contractor elected members sitting on the company board of directors despite the continued increase in their investment. An investment whose fate is decided in that boardroom As a result their investment has zero vote, zero representation and in doing so making that investment 100% totally unsecured and therefore placing the fate of that investment in the hands of another individual who will always place their own interests ahead of the contractor.

So let's see what you have to say in the face of these facts. And by the way there is no honor among liars despite your best efforts to the contrary.... Obviously during your time of employment you too have made quite few trips to the Fedex Mind Control And Reeducation Academy as well.

Why I left has no bearing on this discussion of what happened in the past. (If you think I was fired, you would be incorrect.) I have a lot of stock that I earned while I was there and you are spreading misinformation about my investment.

RPS was not a nationwide carrier when you or I started, there is no law that states they have to service every zip. You are spouting false information.

RPS changed the agreement when the IRS found it was invalid. Not exactly hidden information. RPS then changed the agreement, not hard to figure out. RPS/Ground has constantly changed the operating agreement over the years as legal challenges have come up. Based on your earlier discussions, you said that RPS/Ground will always win. It appears you are wrong again. I bet you signed that new agreement as well even though you knew what was involved. It takes two parties to a contract and both sides agreed to the terms, end of discussion. If you didn't like the terms, you don't sign the agreement and move on.

Do you argue with Apple, Google or any other software app maker with their terms when you start using their software? You either accept it or do not accept them. I guess you think that is wrong as well, it is so one sided.

What is preventing a contractor from being on the board of directors? This has to be the more stupid statements you have put up. How many pilots, managers, package sorters are on the board of directors? I tell you what to do, buy some FedEx stock and go to their annual meeting and bring this up. I can't believe you would bring something up like this on a discussion board.

You say RPS/Ground made no attempt to hide the fact they didn't want the liability and variable costs involved. Well duh, that is why they have the setup they have. Do you think this is a shocking revelation.

Why do I respond to your posts lately, easy, it is so easy to show how stupid your posts are. You come on here and spout that you are an expert and the RPS/Ground misled you, but you clearly understood what they were doing. Bacha, you are a broken record that says the same thing over and over and over and over and over ..... I finally I have got tired of reading your rhetoric of misinformation after several years and now am speaking up.

By the way, what is the Fedex Mind Control and Reeducation Academy? Where is it? Does this really exist or is it a figment of your imagination (a lie), looks like you have no honor.

 

[bacha29]

Why I left has no bearing on this discussion of what happened in the past. (If you think I was fired, you would be incorrect.) I have a lot of stock that I earned while I was there and you are spreading misinformation about my investment.

RPS was not a nationwide carrier when you or I started, there is no law that states they have to service every zip. You are spouting false information.

RPS changed the agreement when the IRS found it was invalid. Not exactly hidden information. RPS then changed the agreement, not hard to figure out. RPS/Ground has constantly changed the operating agreement over the years as legal challenges have come up. Based on your earlier discussions, you said that RPS/Ground will always win. It appears you are wrong again. I bet you signed that new agreement as well even though you knew what was involved. It takes two parties to a contract and both sides agreed to the terms, end of discussion. If you didn't like the terms, you don't sing the agreement and move on.

Do you argue with Apple, Google or any other software app maker with their terms when you start using their software? You either accept it or do not accept them. I guess you think that is wrong as well, it is so one sided.

What is preventing a contractor from being on the board of directors? This has to be the more stupid statements you have put up. How many pilots, managers, package sorters are on the board of directors? I tell you what to do, buy some FedEx stock and go to their annual meeting and bring this up. I can't believe you would bring something up like this on a discussion board.

You say RPS/Ground made no attempt to hide the fact they didn't want the liability and variable costs involved. Well duh, that is why they have the setup they have. Do you think this is a shocking revelation.

Why do I respond to your posts lately, easy, it is so easy to show how stupid your posts are. You come on here and spout that you are an expert and the RPS/Ground misled you, but you clearly understood what they were doing. Bacha, you are a broken record that says the same thing over and over and over and over and over ..... I finally I have got tired of your rhetoric of misinformation after several years and now am speaking up.

By the way, what is the Fedex Mind Control and Reeducation Academy? Where is it? Does this really exist or is it a figment of your imagination (a lie), looks like you have no honor.

When you ask another party to invest their own money in a venture where all of the other competitors in that space invested all of the required funds themselves that person does not deserve being lied to. Your beloved RPS/FXG marketed this con as a so called "partnership" A partnership when one party is untruthful with the other is no partnership.

As for this so called "business opportunity" it keeps trying to promote. Goodwill and proprietary rights key components of a true business venture..... WERE NOT VOLUNTARILY GRANTED! It required the hammer of law to get them to grudgingly give it up.

The only difference between then and now is that the individual has to put up more money. Money that has no more standing no more defensible regardless of the increase in capital requirements now then it was then And the only difference between then and now is that despite the conveyance of limited goodwill and proprietary rights there is not one single action a contractor can undertake that is NOT subject to FXG oversight and control.

No matter how large or small the scale you the contractor operate at, in the end all you did was buy yourself a job.

 

[oldrps]

When you ask another party to invest their own money in a venture where all of the other competitors in that space invested all of the required funds themselves that person does not deserve being lied to. Your beloved RPS/FXG marketed this con as a so called "partnership" A partnership when one party is untruthful with the other is no partnership.

As for this so called "business opportunity" it keeps trying to promote. Goodwill and proprietary rights key components of a true business venture..... WERE NOT VOLUNTARILY GRANTED! It required the hammer of law to get them to grudgingly give it up.

The only difference between then and now is that the individual has to put up more money. Money that has no more standing no more defensible regardless of the increase in capital requirements now then it was then And the only difference between then and now is that despite the conveyance of limited goodwill and proprietary rights there is not one single action a contractor can undertake that is NOT subject to FXG oversight and control.

No matter how large or small the scale you the contractor operate at, in the end all you did was buy yourself a job.

When you ask another party to invest their own money in a venture where all of the other competitors in that space invested all of the required funds themselves that person does not deserve being lied to. Your beloved RPS/FXG marketed this con as a so called "partnership" A partnership when one party is untruthful with the other is no partnership.

• What difference does it make regarding the competition, you knew that going in. Did you not do any homework before you signed the agreement with RPS?
• I don't have a copy of the operating agreement from when I was there, but I don't remember "partnership" being in the agreement.
• Why do you think I love RPS/FXG. If I loved them, seems like I wouldn't have left.
• How was the agreement a con? Please cite some examples for everyone so they can understand.
• What did RPS/Ground do that was untruthful and not spelled out in the agreement? Please cite some examples for everyone so they can understand.

"As for this so called "business opportunity" it keeps trying to promote. Goodwill and proprietary rights key components of a true business venture..... WERE NOT VOLUNTARILY GRANTED! It required the hammer of law to get them to grudgingly give it up."

• How much money did you lose by not having goodwill and proprietary rights?
• How much money did you gain when you got them?
• What proprietary rights did you gain in the newer contracts?

"The only difference between then and now is that the individual has to put up more money. Money that has no more standing no more defensible regardless of the increase in capital requirements now then it was then And the only difference between then and now is that despite the conveyance of limited goodwill and proprietary rights there is not one single action a contractor can undertake that is NOT subject to FXG oversight and control."

• Did you ever have your own business before you contracted with RPS?
• Money that has no more standing no more defensible... What are you trying to say with the 2nd sentence? Lot of big words, but does not make any sense. I think you mean the business owner has to invest more money in capital than you did when you started. I would think they have to put up more money as they have more routes now which requires more vehicles. They should gross a lot more money than you did with one vehicle.
• How many businesses startup with no money and has guaranteed income as soon as you start it?
• I can't answer what they have done for the past 20 years, but when I was there, you better believe there was oversight, we were the customer and paid your business for a service that was agreed upon. Do you think a customer isn't going to make sure they get what they paid for and verify that it was completed.
• Control is a little bit more difficult to define as you may see something is control, but could be a part of servicing an area.
  • You can say that I have to service every package everyday as control, but it is part of the agreement.
  • You can't leave until all of the packages are loaded could be considered control, but how can you service all of the packages if you leave before they are all loaded.
  • You have to return by 6:30 pm so all of the pickup packages have to be unloaded for the outbound trailers to leave on time, but that is part of servicing all the packages.
  • There are also legal requirements that may appear to be control. They made me pull the Haz-Mat slips out my Haz-Mat envelope as I delivered the packages. That is a DOT requirement, not control. You will need to give examples on how they controlled you that were beyond the agreement.
  • For example, to make your statement make more since, you could say you had an over controlling manager that went beyond what they were supposed to do. They made me run my stops in a specific order everyday. Said I had to start at 8:30am and leave by 6:00pm.

"No matter how large or small the scale you the contractor operate at, in the end all you did was buy yourself a job."

• I think you described any person that starts up their own business. The only difference is you can lose money with a business, not with a job.

Please start giving examples of how they did you wrong instead of being vague of what happened. Cite some examples of what they did that was wrong. Just throwing out that statement without backing it up with some facts solidifies your argument. It will help people understand what really happened.

 

[Fred's Myth]

When you ask another party to invest their own money in a venture where all of the other competitors in that space invested all of the required funds themselves that person does not deserve being lied to. Your beloved RPS/FXG marketed this con as a so called "partnership" A partnership when one party is untruthful with the other is no partnership.

• What difference does it make regarding the competition, you knew that going in. Did you not do any homework before you signed the agreement with RPS?
• I don't have a copy of the operating agreement from when I was there, but I don't remember "partnership" being in the agreement.
• Why do you think I love RPS/FXG. If I loved them, seems like I wouldn't have left.
• How was the agreement a con? Please cite some examples for everyone so they can understand.
• What did RPS/Ground do that was untruthful and not spelled out in the agreement? Please cite some examples for everyone so they can understand.

"As for this so called "business opportunity" it keeps trying to promote. Goodwill and proprietary rights key components of a true business venture..... WERE NOT VOLUNTARILY GRANTED! It required the hammer of law to get them to grudgingly give it up."

• How much money did you lose by not having goodwill and proprietary rights?
• How much money did you gain when you got them?
• What proprietary rights did you gain in the newer contracts?

"The only difference between then and now is that the individual has to put up more money. Money that has no more standing no more defensible regardless of the increase in capital requirements now then it was then And the only difference between then and now is that despite the conveyance of limited goodwill and proprietary rights there is not one single action a contractor can undertake that is NOT subject to FXG oversight and control."

• Did you ever have your own business before you contracted with RPS?
• Money that has no more standing no more defensible... What are you trying to say with the 2nd sentence? Lot of big words, but does not make any sense. I think you mean the business owner has to invest more money in capital than you did when you started. I would think they have to put up more money as they have more routes now which requires more vehicles. They should gross a lot more money than you did with one vehicle.
• How many businesses startup with no money and has guaranteed income as soon as you start it?
• I can't answer what they have done for the past 20 years, but when I was there, you better believe there was oversight, we were the customer and paid your business for a service that was agreed upon. Do you think a customer isn't going to make sure they get what they paid for and verify that it was completed.
• Control is a little bit more difficult to define as you may see something is control, but could be a part of servicing an area.
  • You can say that I have to service every package everyday as control, but it is part of the agreement.
  • You can't leave until all of the packages are loaded could be considered control, but how can you service all of the packages if you leave before they are all loaded.
  • You have to return by 6:30 pm so all of the pickup packages have to be unloaded for the outbound trailers to leave on time, but that is part of servicing all the packages.
  • There are also legal requirements that may appear to be control. They made me pull the Haz-Mat slips out my Haz-Mat envelope as I delivered the packages. That is a DOT requirement, not control. You will need to give examples on how they controlled you that were beyond the agreement.
  • For example, to make your statement make more since, you could say you had an over controlling manager that went beyond what they were supposed to do. They made me run my stops in a specific order everyday. Said I had to start at 8:30am and leave by 6:00pm.

"No matter how large or small the scale you the contractor operate at, in the end all you did was buy yourself a job."

• I think you described any person that starts up their own business. The only difference is you can lose money with a business, not with a job.

Please start giving examples of how they did you wrong instead of being vague of what happened. Cite some examples of what they did that was wrong. Just throwing out that statement without backing it up with some facts solidifies your argument. It will help people understand what really happened.

With every post by @bacha29, I am more convinced that it is alcohol that is speaking.

 

[59 Dano]

So the south is stuck in the 1950s now instead of the 40s. I guess that's progress. For $9 an hour in the south you can rent a double wide in a 'good' trailer park. For $11 an hour, you can get off food stamps.

In the southeast, new state-of-the-art factories are popping up like weeds, paying nearly $20/hour to start for zero experience and a HS diploma, all the OT you want, and offering benefits that range from decent to great.

You don't really have any idea what you're talking about, do you?

 

[59 Dano]

Ok According to the nonprofit Economic Policy Institute 46.2% of the people who receive social program benefits work full time. 52.6% of those who receive benefits earn between $7.42 and $9.91 an hour. The 5 states that have the highest poverty rates are in the South and 9 of the 10 states that have the highest percentage of their populations receiving SNAP benefits are in the South.
Furthermore according to the EPI if the federal minimum wage was raised to $12 an hour nationwide it would save 17 billion in public funds that could be used toward anti poverty initiatives more effective than the current corporate welfare system.

Bacha logic: if we price the lowest skilled employees out of the job market completely, we won't spend as much money on providing benefits for them!

 

[59 Dano]

Then, by your logic, the more the government taxes us, the more we have in our pockets.

Brilliant!

I once had a pointlessly long exchange with someone here (don't remember who) who pitched a theory that higher taxes generated more money for the workin' man. It went something like this:

1) Raise taxes really high
2) Stuff that can't really be explained, and what can be explained makes no sense
3) Prosperity

 

[bacha29]

When you ask another party to invest their own money in a venture where all of the other competitors in that space invested all of the required funds themselves that person does not deserve being lied to. Your beloved RPS/FXG marketed this con as a so called "partnership" A partnership when one party is untruthful with the other is no partnership.

• What difference does it make regarding the competition, you knew that going in. Did you not do any homework before you signed the agreement with RPS?
• I don't have a copy of the operating agreement from when I was there, but I don't remember "partnership" being in the agreement.
• Why do you think I love RPS/FXG. If I loved them, seems like I wouldn't have left.
• How was the agreement a con? Please cite some examples for everyone so they can understand.
• What did RPS/Ground do that was untruthful and not spelled out in the agreement? Please cite some examples for everyone so they can understand.

"As for this so called "business opportunity" it keeps trying to promote. Goodwill and proprietary rights key components of a true business venture..... WERE NOT VOLUNTARILY GRANTED! It required the hammer of law to get them to grudgingly give it up."

• How much money did you lose by not having goodwill and proprietary rights?
• How much money did you gain when you got them?
• What proprietary rights did you gain in the newer contracts?

"The only difference between then and now is that the individual has to put up more money. Money that has no more standing no more defensible regardless of the increase in capital requirements now then it was then And the only difference between then and now is that despite the conveyance of limited goodwill and proprietary rights there is not one single action a contractor can undertake that is NOT subject to FXG oversight and control."

• Did you ever have your own business before you contracted with RPS?
• Money that has no more standing no more defensible... What are you trying to say with the 2nd sentence? Lot of big words, but does not make any sense. I think you mean the business owner has to invest more money in capital than you did when you started. I would think they have to put up more money as they have more routes now which requires more vehicles. They should gross a lot more money than you did with one vehicle.
• How many businesses startup with no money and has guaranteed income as soon as you start it?
• I can't answer what they have done for the past 20 years, but when I was there, you better believe there was oversight, we were the customer and paid your business for a service that was agreed upon. Do you think a customer isn't going to make sure they get what they paid for and verify that it was completed.
• Control is a little bit more difficult to define as you may see something is control, but could be a part of servicing an area.
  • You can say that I have to service every package everyday as control, but it is part of the agreement.
  • You can't leave until all of the packages are loaded could be considered control, but how can you service all of the packages if you leave before they are all loaded.
  • You have to return by 6:30 pm so all of the pickup packages have to be unloaded for the outbound trailers to leave on time, but that is part of servicing all the packages.
  • There are also legal requirements that may appear to be control. They made me pull the Haz-Mat slips out my Haz-Mat envelope as I delivered the packages. That is a DOT requirement, not control. You will need to give examples on how they controlled you that were beyond the agreement.
  • For example, to make your statement make more since, you could say you had an over controlling manager that went beyond what they were supposed to do. They made me run my stops in a specific everyday. Said I had to start at 8:30am and leave by 6:00pm.

"No matter how large or small the scale you the contractor operate at, in the end all you did was buy yourself a job."

• I think you described any person that starts up their own business. The only difference is you can lose money with a business, not with a job.

Please start giving examples of how they did you wrong instead of being vague of what happened. Cite some examples of what they did that was wrong. Just throwing out that statement without backing it up with some facts solidifies your argument. It will help people understand what really happened.

I don't have time right now to list in detail the events that were flat out wrong. Furthermore , that company's business practices were so corrupt that the hammer of law had to be dropped on it and forced to clean it up. And what little they did was the absolute minimum and done so in a way that that avoided having to give up meaningful control That tells you everything and there's nothing you can do or say to change that fact nor can you minimize the significance of it.

In the coming months I expect to see congressional hearings held at least at the subcommittee level that will be focused on the question of what exactly is a true independent contractor and how much freedom and autonomy must be granted to a party that operates under the "independent contractor" classification. No question that the one customer stranglehold Fat Freddy has at Ground over his sharecropping "entrepreneurs" will be front and center.