Discussion in 'The Archives' started by wkmac, Nov 28, 2003.
I think this is good news. The AFL-CIO has a socialist bent and Sweeney himself is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America. Less forced-dues cash to support the far left politicians and their big government/nanny state agenda.
Being Libertarian politically, I think both republicans and democrats are for the nanny state but that's another discussion. You are correct that politically the pressure is on some of the various so-called leftist, liberal outfits. The AARP has been a solid Democrat camper for years but backed the drug benefit for medicare purposed by Bush and Co. It was a historic moment of political tides shifting listening to the BedWetter Brigade trashing AARP over their backing of this plan. I don't agree with the course but Bush taking parts of the democrats own agenda and running with it is just brillant. He's forcing them to vote against their own measures out of fear Bush and the Republicans will get the credit and then come election Bush and Co. will turn right around and tell the country we gave you the drug benefit and these folks not only voted against it but tried to hold it up so as to not be voted on. The democrats better listen to Zell Miller or they will find themselves one day having fallen to the ground on their own swords.
BTW:Bush's covert Dinner visit to Baghdad was something else and for me I took it as genuine and not a political stunt as some would claim.
So the rank-and-file employees of the AFL-CIO are unionized? This is hilarious! ...Seems the employees of the champion of economic justice in the workplace needed somebody to protect them against their magnanimous management.
(Message edited by browncollar on November 28, 2003)
Bush's visit to Bagdad was a show to the people of Iraq. I think it was a brilliant move by Bush. But then I am just a truck driver, what do I know
I do know that it did boost the moral of the troops over there.
Im doing a hazard analysis on the conflict over there. Interesting some of the stats and stories.
Yeah, I get a warm and fuzzy feeling whenever these egalitarian elites know what is best for us common people. Ah yes, it will be a pleasant journey down the road to serfdom.
I wonder if the Army has been doing thier JHA's and IPR's???
Can you share any of those stats and stories, dannyboy?
After hostile fire of course is the #1 killer (38%) with explosive devices #2 (17%)this includes car bombs, home made (the military calls them "improvised explosive devices)and mines etc placed in roads. What do you think 3-6 costly reasons are for loss of life?
SOme of the other more interesting data are:
7 killed by freindly fire
5 killed while changing tires (two hit by other vehicles and the other three the tires exploded. I have heard that this is a real problem in our military.
1 was electrocuted when he touched live wires that were hanging too low
3 died in their sleep
3 died from falls
3 are under investigation
4 from natural causes
5 of illness
3 were run over by equipment
1 in a vehicle fire
2 because of heat
4 firing range accidents
3 munitions dump explosions
17 listed as other non combat injuries
9 drown. THis one is very interesting. When doing analysis you look for patterns or other clues as to what is going on. Of the 9, 6 were black, and of the three white boys, two drown while trying to save troops that had crashed into the water, and 1 was in a tank and could not get out. THe other 6 were recreational swimmers that went in and never came back out. AS I said, not why just what.
As for hostile fire, 21 were killed while on guard duty, 6 were killed during two different occasions when ambulances were attacked, and three were killed while trying to disperse a crowd.
The average age of the men and women killed was almost 28. Very unlike Vietnam, the largest age group was of course the 20-24(34%), 25-29(21%), 30-34(15%),35-39(10%) and then the 18-19(7%)followed very closely by the 40-44(6%). There were 14 above the age of 45 with 56 being the oldest.
As far as rank they break down like this
Staff SGT 52
Chief warant officers 16
SGT 1st class 11
1st Lt 9
2nd Lt 6
1st SGT 4
Lt Col. 4
SGT Major 3
Master SGT 3
Petty officer 3rd class 2
Hospital Corpsman 3rd class 2
So I guess they can pick rank while shooting at us also.
Anyway post your guesses as to 3-6 and I will post back tomorrow with the answers. As far as JHA, there are many that show, but to mention them would give away the answers.
Hmmm. I'll bet Over-70s and... not being aware of surroundings. Yeah, that's gotta be #3 or 4. Root Cause: Soldier was unaware of his surroundings. ;-)
But seriously, I'll guess accidental discharges were one of the other four prime causes. Driving accidents is likely. Suicides may be a factor. And, ...Saddam Hussein's cologne.
These stats make me wonder, what is the death rate for troops not stationed in a combat area? Numbers for Japan and Germany would be interesting, especially compared against OSHA 5's for some forts on home turf. Seems the military might be a dangerous place to be whether or not anyone is shooting at you. Those 4 firing range accidents really make me wonder.
I'd expected disease to be more common.
For the rank thing, perhaps the non-coms are more likely to expose themselves to fire.
Sorry it took me so long to get back.
Hostile fire is #1 with 193
#2 is explosive devices, many are home made, 87
#3 are vehicle accidents 56
#4 are chopper crashes, not shot down 48
#5&6 are chopper flying into another chopper and non hostile gunfire, both with 24 each. This can include suicides which are not identified.
#7 is other non combat 17
#8 is drowning 9
#9 is enexploded ordinance 8
#10 is friendly fire 7
Not a place I would like to be for sure.
My prayers are with those that serve. And for those families that are forever changed with the loss of their loved ones.
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