The price of change

[av8torntn]

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/2/14/obamas-trillion-dollar-spending-plan.html


"What does "change" cost? About a quarter of a trillion bucks a year, according to Barack Obama."

 

[av8torntn]

'The Wall Street Journal's Steve Moore says Obama's tax plan would add up to a 39.6 percent personal income tax, a 52.2 percent combined income and payroll tax, a 28 percent capital-gains tax, a 39.6 percent dividends tax, and a 55 percent estate tax. In other words, Sen. Obama is a very-high-tax candidate.... Interestingly, at least two of Obama's top economic advisors—Austan Goolsbee and Jeffrey Liebman—are highly regarded free-market economists.... But somehow their candidate has a very punitive high-tax campaign plan for the economy."


Kind of makes you wonder if B. Hussein Obama is just all smoke and mirrors.

 

[Jones]

You know, I notice you don't refer to the president as "G. Herbert Bush", or to Hillary as "H. Rodham Clinton", or to McCain as "J. Sidney McCain".

If all the points you are making about Obama are good reasons not to vote for him, then why are you trying to scare people by constantly pointing out that his middle name is Hussein? Or is there some other reason for the odd way that you choose to write his name?

 

[av8torntn]

You know, I notice you don't refer to the president as "G. Herbert Bush", or to Hillary as "H. Rodham Clinton", or to McCain as "J. Sidney McCain".

If all the points you are making about Obama are good reasons not to vote for him, then why are you trying to scare people by constantly pointing out that his middle name is Hussein? Or is there some other reason for the odd way that you choose to write his name?

To be honest I can't spell his first name and spell check tries to change it to barrack, but the real question should be why does it bother you guys so much? Now the other two posters want to say that I am a racist for using someones middle name and I expect more from you. So yes now I have seen his name enough to spell it but knowing how afraid of his name diesel seems to be I will keep using it. So what started out as being lazy with spell check just turned into a way to have fun with some of you.

Did anyone get worked up about Baines, Walker, Fitzgerald, Knox, Quincey, Henry, Simpson, Birchard, Abram, Alan, David, or even Earl? When Diesel claimed that I was somehow racist because I used the middle name of B. Hussein Obama really just assured that would be the way I used it for the rest of the election cycle.

 

[moreluck]

When I first heard of this young candidate from Illinois, the first thing that was etched in my brain was the name "Hussein". I can't get past it !! "Obama" doesn't do it for me either !! Too close to "Osama".

 

[Jones]

You really have trouble spelling "Barack", but not "Hussein"? I'll take you at your word, but most people refer to him as Obama, or Senator Obama. I've yet to read a news article or opinion piece that refers to him as B. Hussein Obama, or hear anyone on TV call him that.

I can't speak for anyone else on this board, and I'm certainly not calling you a racist, but when you consistently refer to him in that manner it does appear that you are making a point of the fact that he has an arab middle name.

In a perfect world, no one would care what name his parents gave him (or what church he went to), the only issues would be his domestic, foreign, and economic policies.
I think we both know that we don't live in a perfect world, and there are plenty of people in the U.S. who won't vote for Obama because he's black, or because he has an arab name, or because he's from "Nigeria" (I actually had someone on my route tell me this), or because he's a "secret muslim". Heck, look what Moreluck just posted- she "can't get past" the name Hussein. What's the point of debating policy differences when someone has already declared that they won't vote for him just because of his name?

So just speaking for myself, when I hear/see someone constantly referring to him as "Hussein", the impression I get is that they are making a campaign tactic out of anti-arab sentiment. Incidentally, I'm not alone in feeling that way:

The RNC rejects these kinds of campaign tactics," Duncan says (click)

McCain apologizes for Bill Cunningham's Obama comments (click)

The people you referred to at the end of you post are people who were commonly known by their middle names, in most cases because that's how they chose to refer to themselves. Obama has never gone by Hussein anymore than McCain has ever gone by Sydney.

But hey, if you just want to annoy diesel, have at it

 

[Jones]

Came across this comparison earlier today, I'd like to see McCain up there as well but as near as I can tell he hasn't been all that specific about his economic proposals. Personally I think that that the "gas tax holiday" that both Clinton and McCain are talking about is pure populism and very poor policy.

 

[av8torntn]

You really have trouble spelling "Barack", but not "Hussein"? I'll take you at your word, but most people refer to him as Obama, or Senator Obama. I've yet to read a news article or opinion piece that refers to him as B. Hussein Obama, or hear anyone on TV call him that.

Yes, my job for a year was to work with an interpretor and hunt down terrorists and insurgents. During this time I had to write the name Hussein hundreds of times. One thing that was interesting to me was we were told that Arabic words do not translate to English well. More than one interp told us there was no correct way to spell most of those words in English and to just spell it like it sounded. This would not go over well with the grammar police on here so I compromised with B. Hussein Obama. You are correct it should have been Sen B. Hussein Obama. But for now I will just stick with B. Hussein Obama.

The most interesting thing of all is the fear the supporters of B. Hussein Obama have of his name. If they had a strong candidate they would not fear his name. I do not fear his name.

 

[wkmac]

Jones,

As to your first post in this thread and the name thing, when the candidate you support or at least in your mind you believe you have to support because of the political party is in reality not that much different from the candidate (Sen. Obama in this case) you attack in the ways mentioned, IMO it just means you have little else to go on and instead of acting off of true principles, you are acting off of unfounded emotionalism. I don't need to not vote for Obama because of his preacher as I know on just principle alone we are far apart!


As for the constant reminder of Rev. Wright who I'd agree has made comments over the edge and the lapel pin situation of Obama, the great savior of the republican cause, John McCain, has officially condemned these type of discussions and attacks most recently in NC. He called such people engaging in such actions as being "out of touch with the party and reality!"
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN2535509420080425

I'm sure there are those even here who would attempt to justify the continuing attacks and no doubt they will contiinue but to defy the instruction of their future commnander-n-chief would lead one to question their true patriotism in bucking the future leader of the free world in a time of war!

Funny how extremes have a way of coming back around on ya from time to time!


Enjoyed your points in both posts!

 

[av8torntn]

Came across this comparison earlier today, I'd like to see McCain up there as well but as near as I can tell he hasn't been all that specific about his economic proposals.

https://web.archive.org/web/2008061...sues/4dbd2cc7-890e-47f1-882f-b8fc4cfecc78.htm

Looks about as specific as the other two.

Here is his "specific" health care plan.

https://web.archive.org/web/2008031...sues/19ba2f1c-c03f-4ac2-8cd5-5cf2edb527cf.htm

 

[diesel96]

This behavior is nothing new with the hardline Republican conservatives. It has been very effective ploy for years aimed at Reagon Democrats, undecided, and of course the conservative sheep who constantly need direction and reassurance. Once they latch on to a smear, term, or in AV8's case a name their intention is obvious. You might as well capitalize and print HUSSIEN in big bold letters and write it on a chalk board a 100 times like Bart Simpson to your flock. But there is light at the end of the tunnel, because more and more people are getting turned off by negative characterization and waking up to these kinds of repetative tactics and viewing this as an act of deflection. Smoke and mirrors...thats all it is...BTW...Nice try tying in the usage of the name "Hussien" with your TYD's.

 

[av8torntn]

This behavior is nothing new with the hardline Republican conservatives. It has been very effective ploy for years aimed at Reagon Democrats, undecided, and of course the conservative sheep who constantly need direction and reassurance. Once they latch on to a smear, term, or in AV8's case a name their intention is obvious. You might as well capitalize and print HUSSIEN in big bold letters and write it on a chalk board a 100 times like Bart Simpson to your flock. But there is light at the end of the tunnel, because more and more people are getting turned off by negative characterization and waking up to these kinds of repetative tactics and viewing this as an act of deflection. Smoke and mirrors...thats all it is...BTW...Nice try tying in the usage of the name "Hussien" with your TYD's.

Very predictable. Thank you for the validation. All of the posts where you complained about the costs of the Iraq war and when faced by the costs of electing B. Hussein Obama and all you can talk about is his middle name. Just what I though you would say. LOL You did however leave out neocon and right wing which was a little bit of a disappointment.

 

[av8torntn]

Jones

I just noticed your chart has Clinton's middle name. I suppose I cannot be accused of being quick.

 

[Jones]

Jones

I just noticed your chart has Clinton's middle name. I suppose I cannot be accused of being quick.

You're not that quick

Rodham is her maiden name, not her middle name, and it was her choice to retain it. Some kinda feminist thing. My wife didn't change her name at all when we got married, which I think is pretty cool. I like her last name better than mine anyway.

 

[av8torntn]

You're not that quick

Rodham is her maiden name, not her middle name, and it was her choice to retain it. Some kinda feminist thing. My wife didn't change her name at all when we got married, which I think is pretty cool. I like her last name better than mine anyway.

Oh I never knew her middle name was Diane. Just kidding.


She actually goes back and forth with it depending on the current political climate. One example is her Presidential website is Hillaryclinton.com. On there it is either Hillary or Hillary Clinton. No Rodham at all. The only mention is Hugh Rodham. You would think that everything on there has her approval. Maybe she was a racist against herself for using more than two names and she saw the light and now it is only Hillary Clinton. Maybe the author of the chart you posted is racist for using her middle name. But then her official name for the Senate is Hillary Rodham Clinton. Is it because that is seen as a positive thing in NY? The problem with all this is if people were really wanting to imply that B. Hussein Obama were Muslim they would be using all four names like like the Muslims do. His given name followed by his fathers and so on. So back to my original point I thought maybe you chose that to give me a good laugh. I see though you really think that it is somehow different and important.


I think you have linked to wikipedia before so I thought you may like this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

They do not seem to have a problem with his name.

Maybe using someones name is just that. It may have nothing to do with trying to scare someone or trying to remind people he is biracial. The people who are not going to vote for him based on his race do not need to be reminded of his name. They are not going to forget his race as you seem to imply. It is fun watching you guys get all worked up about B. Hussein Obama. It is even better on this thread about the costs of his proposals watching the ones that were complaining about the costs of the war trying to keep the topic about the name of their likely nominee.

 

[BrownShark]

You're not that quick

Rodham is her maiden name, not her middle name, and it was her choice to retain it. Some kinda feminist thing. My wife didn't change her name at all when we got married, which I think is pretty cool. I like her last name better than mine anyway.

Jones,

I am not sure if you understand what a feminist believes or feminism, but if your wife kept her given name, that is an act of feminism and not love, sanctity or respect for the institution of marriage between a man and a woman.

A woman takes the name of the husband and joins him in marriage by accepting his name.

This respect demonstrates love, duty and honor to a new family, not a family she just left when married.

I appreciate her views and the boldness to stand up to you and put you in your place.

I am also proud of you for accepting her point of view and taking it so well.

Peace

 

[BrownShark]

The use of the term B. Hussein Obama is not an original one.

This is simply an established tactic of the RNC and those in the political machine behind it. The practice began early this year by simultaneously having the term used by all the right wing talk radio personalities each and everyday.

All the usual characters have imployed this tactic and the constant repetition of the term becomes CO-Opted into peoples everyday speech patterns.

Its no big secret that baracks name would come into the process and be exploited. Its been done many times before and has had ZERO RESULTS.

From the time he ran for local office, the term B. Hussein Obama was used against him. He still won by an overwhelming majority. When he ran for state senate the same tactic was repeated in print and on local right winged airwaves, he still won with an overwhelming majority.

When he ran for US Senate, once again, the term B. Hussein Obama was used in campaining against him by the RNC and the local talk radio right wingers....yes, he won again.

As this country sees the day where an african american of mixed race has a chance of becoming president of the United States after decades of prejudice and hatred, all those who oppose him can do is name call or make inferences to hide the deep seeded racial undertone of thier prejudice.

The mere usage of the term B. Hussein Obama is a backdoor racial slur intended to draw anyone listening to it to make a connection to Saddam Hussein.

If you realize that the name Hussein is as common in the middle east as the name JOHN is here in the states, you would understand that it carries no implied value.

AV8 himself said he worked with an interpreter and he had to write the name Hussein many times.

Fear, fear, fear, this is the standard "message" those who support the republicans want you to feel.

Its become clear that we are only addressing a few on both sides, and that no matter how much information we try to post on both sides, neither is going to change anyones mind.

Those who came on this board in this section to post anti hillary or anti Obama rhetoric NEVER had any intention of voting for them in the first place.

Just as I have NO intention on voting for an aging relic who would mirror the worst president in American history.

The republicans strategy from the start was to divide this country in half, and then fight over the middle.

From homosexuals to abortion, to national security, if they were able to divide the country in half and just convince a few that gays were bad, abortion is murder and the terrorists are coming, then they could win elections by a few votes..

This time around, they have another thing coming.

Just yesterday, another republican in a PURELY republican state and local, lost a seat in the house of representatives:
Democrats took another Republican-held U.S. House seat in a special election Saturday, suggesting that the party remains on track for significant expansion of its congressional majorities in 2008.

Louisiana Democrat Don Cazayoux, a young moderate with state legislative experience, snatched a seat that Republicans had held since the 1970s by a 49-46 margin over a well-funded campaign by veteran Republican legislator Woody Jenkins.
The win extends the Democratic majority in the House to 235-198 and it continues a pattern of special-election wins for the party in seats that have traditionally been thought of as Republican strongholds -- including the Illinois turf of former House Speaker Dennis Hastert.
But it does something far more significant.
Republicans and their allied special-interest groups had sought to save the seat by "nationalizing" -- or, to be more precise, racializing -- the contest with a campaign that sought to tie Cazayoux to Democratic presidential frontrunner Barack Obama. Hoping to capitalize on concerns about Obama's former minister, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, in order to exploit racial divisions in the south and other regions of recent Republican strength, GOP operatives have developed advertising schemes that feature images of Obama, Wright and local Democratic candidates.

The message of HUSSEIN, WRIGHT, AYERS only works on idiots.

Thank you to all that repeat this stuff for the confirmation that you are idiots.

Peace

 

[av8torntn]

The mere usage of the term B. Hussein Obama is a backdoor racial slur intended to draw anyone listening to it to make a connection to Saddam Hussein.

See when they have nothing to say on topic they just start the racism message. Way to predictable. Now the mere usage of someones name is a racial slur. It is hard to even type that without laughing. I hope that is the message the DNC sticks with. Maybe you could explain how this mythical connection to Saddam is racist since they were both I am guessing of different races.

 

[BrownShark]

Cmon, Obamas voting record??

Are you serious? Has anyone of you seen John McCains voting record? Would it astonish you to know that he has MISSED over 2000 votes over his entire term as a senator?

John McCain has missed 325 votes (58.5%) during the current Congress. See a list of his missed votes since 1991

There are page after page, after page, after page, after page after page of missed votes that were crucial to the american public?

Where was he??

So far in this congress, he has missed 325 votes!! This is just this session.

He has FAILED to participate in hundreds of bills crucial to running the country going back to 1991.

You want to make hay over 150 votes?

Lets see,... 150 votes where he voted "present" a parlimentary practice used for 200 years in the US senate, compared to over 2000 "no shows"???

Guys, please, your embarrassing yourselfs and RUSH has set you up to appear as mindless b00bs with a script of nonsense aimed at keeping you at the stupid notch.

Ill settle for the 150 he had the time to show up and vote present vs. missing the vote alltogether and hanging with special interests on a golf course.

Peace

 

[BrownShark]

See when they have nothing to say on topic they just start the racism message. Way to predictable. Now the mere usage of someones name is a racial slur. It is hard to even type that without laughing. I hope that is the message the DNC sticks with. Maybe you could explain how this mythical connection to Saddam is racist since they were both I am guessing of different races.

AV8,

the only thing amusing is your inability to see how youre being used. Like a programmed maroon, you used a term widely established by the right wing propaganda machine, in light of the fact that its been used for years to no avail, you decide to pick up the ball and run with it..

Problem is, your going towards the wrong end zone.

You try to take on the term B. Hussein Obama as if it were yours.....something you came up with...something you feel was necessary because of your limited ability to spell on the whim,

Yet, the term in the exact state has been used long before you were able to construct a sentence.

You go on with your bad self, use the term, its old, sort of like saying Bitchin, or Boss, or Groovy.....

Use the term Hussein (to refer to Obama) in Chicago and you would get your kicked in a NY minute.

But like I closed with in my last post, keep the confirmations coming, I enjoy putting a checkpoint on my idiot list.

Peace