time allowances

some1else

Well-Known Member
//agree that running your air first, and just your air, would look better on paper, but it will also keep you out there longer. And damn, the days are long enough now, the sun is setting way too soon now. I don't know what the answer is.//
if i didnt do that i would plan at about 7.25-7.5 and besides i have 15-20 airs a day and get on area at 915-925. unless i show up early and sort the truck (i dont work for free) there is no way i have time to dig around the shelves looking for the grounds to go with those 20 stops.
 

softshoe

Well-Known Member
agreed. But that process is already in place with the zero raises for supervisors this year and the shared cost for health care for benefits for supervisors.

Can I take it then you would be OK with setting up a similar compensation cost control structure for Drivers?

BrownIEman, We may be straying awaying from the original subject on this thread. But, I can give you 445 million reasons why Drivers won't be giving back any compensation.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
BrownIEman, We may be straying awaying from the original subject on this thread. But, I can give you 445 million reasons why Drivers won't be giving back any compensation.

OK.
So, if in 1Q 2012 UPS loses 445 million, would you accept those 445 million reasons why you should?

If current trends continue it is very likely.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
OK.
So, if in 1Q 2012 UPS loses 445 million, would you accept those 445 million reasons why you should?

If current trends continue it is very likely.

That would only bring it to zero.
Now, if I had my own company, got a few million salary, paid all my workers and overhead.
And the balnce is null.
I guess, I would be bitching too.

I get rich, workers are happy with income, but darnit, company didn't make a profit !

But, I already know your answer... the shareholders need some return.
Well, shareholders gamble.
They got to take losses at times, not the worker, that does all he can to have the best service !
 

stevetheupsguy

sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
//agree that running your air first, and just your air, would look better on paper, but it will also keep you out there longer. And damn, the days are long enough now, the sun is setting way too soon now. I don't know what the answer is.//
if i didnt do that i would plan at about 7.25-7.5 and besides i have 15-20 airs a day and get on area at 915-925. unless i show up early and sort the truck (i dont work for free) there is no way i have time to dig around the shelves looking for the grounds to go with those 20 stops.
Amen to that. The truth to all of this is, if I can get to the other pkgs, I just might try. If it is too much of a hassle, then I'll deliver air, my tp-60, bulk and 12pm commits and then start from my 1000 shelf. I call this delivery method, concentric circles.:surprised:
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
That would only bring it to zero.
Now, if I had my own company, got a few million salary, paid all my workers and overhead.
And the balnce is null.
I guess, I would be bitching too.

I get rich, workers are happy with income, but darnit, company didn't make a profit !

But, I already know your answer... the shareholders need some return.
Well, shareholders gamble.
They got to take losses at times, not the worker, that does all he can to have the best service !

No, I meant if UPS posts a loss of 445 mill... not zero.
And, if the company starts losing money as fast as we are losing market share, the workers WILL take the losses. Many already are in the form of layoffs, which if we remain uncompetitive will only increase, even once the economy stabilizes.

The shareowners pays there money and takes their chances, if you think I am shedding tears for them, you seriously misunderstand me.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Amen to that. The truth to all of this is, if I can get to the other pkgs, I just might try. If it is too much of a hassle, then I'll deliver air, my tp-60, bulk and 12pm commits and then start from my 1000 shelf. I call this delivery method, concentric circles.:surprised:

You should always deliver ground with air IF you can. If you can't, or think you can't, then I would say err on the side of caution and just do the air first. Just MHO.
Remember, delivering air seperate from ground adds the allowance for more stops, but it also adds more actual stops. So, whether or not it makes you look better on paper sorta depends on how efficiently you do those stops...
 

some1else

Well-Known Member
i.e man we have had drivers disciplined here for late airs when they have grounds delivered prior to 1030. as in the driver delivers 15 airs a day; and does gets off 10/15 stop's grounds at the same time. then one day has problems/falls behind and has late air; and is disciplined for the grounds he had run 45 minutes earlier; even though the route is set up to be delivered that way. until this policy is reversed i will not deliver grounds with and/or before airs.
//I call this delivery method, concentric circles.//
thats good steve; almost as good as my favorite ups driver saying take a "longcut" old timer explaining why he did things the way he did...
 

brownmonster

Man of Great Wisdom
Each day is different. If air is light and load is light I can get to some ground I will. If I have a lot of air and the load is bricked then I don't. The same stop could be at location 3000 one day and 4885 the next. Can't always get to it even if time permits. I keep hearing how service and reliability is all we can offer over the competition yet we as drivers are constantly fighting inconsistency.
 

Coldworld

60 months and counting
The problem is the allowances do not jive with the reality of ups 2009. I do not know, maybe someone does, but these things have been set in stone for years. An average size package has probably gone up since the 60's or 70's. The average weight of a package has gone up also. Were there p1200 or box trucks 30 years ago, more steps from the front of the truck to the dock.There is probably more traffic than 30 years ago, has that issue been updated? You all can probably add a few others in the mix, maybe it is time to update these things instead of shaving more and more time for no apparent reason except for trying to get people to run and possibility of getting hurt...which will cost in the end with higher insurance, doctor etc. To keep ahead of purple you have to get back to basics and that starts with customer service, if this happens other things fall into place.
 

toonertoo

Most Awesome Dog
Staff member
The problem is the allowances do not jive with the reality of ups 2009. I do not know, maybe someone does, but these things have been set in stone for years. An average size package has probably gone up since the 60's or 70's. The average weight of a package has gone up also. Were there p1200 or box trucks 30 years ago, more steps from the front of the truck to the dock.There is probably more traffic than 30 years ago, has that issue been updated? You all can probably add a few others in the mix, maybe it is time to update these things instead of shaving more and more time for no apparent reason except for trying to get people to run and possibility of getting hurt...which will cost in the end with higher insurance, doctor etc. To keep ahead of purple you have to get back to basics and that starts with customer service, if this happens other things fall into place.
Now there you go again. Do not try to inject logic.
 

HEFFERNAN

Huge Member
Ha, very true. Oh well, we'll all go down with the ship TOGETHER....management and union...fighting to the bitter end until we all reach the icy bottom of the delivery business sea.


The Titanic has been holding up pretty well. Almost as long as UPS !!! :happy-very:
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
I run airs off first unless I absolutely KNOW its going to be cake to del the grounds with the airs.

If it takes more than 10 seconds to find a few extra packages, i'll abort the idea and come back later in day.

The preloaders do a terrible job with PAS and if anything PAS has made the job much more difficult for drivers, especially in the AM.

The most effective thing for me anyway was isntead of delivering grounds with airs, it was delivering the even side when I was on my way back to beginning of area after the last air on the outskirts of the route. This makes the day go by much smoothly, focusing on the odd side 11am-2pm
 

stevetheupsguy

sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
I run airs off first unless I absolutely KNOW its going to be cake to del the grounds with the airs.

If it takes more than 10 seconds to find a few extra packages, i'll abort the idea and come back later in day.

The preloaders do a terrible job with PAS and if anything PAS has made the job much more difficult for drivers, especially in the AM.

The most effective thing for me anyway was isntead of delivering grounds with airs, it was delivering the even side when I was on my way back to beginning of area after the last air on the outskirts of the route. This makes the day go by much smoothly, focusing on the odd side 11am-2pm
Funny that you say this, because my route is set up this way as well. Not all routes have the "even" side on the way back to the begining. If I can manage to get to these pkgs, I will. The down side of this is that it makes the route look bad as far as numbers because you didn't go as many miles. They will then expect you to continue to deliver this way, even when the car is loaded so that you can't get to those pkgs. Too bad they don't account for this.
 

browniehound

Well-Known Member
Are you not allowed to take a half hour lunch? We been doing it for years out West. The new contract also includes language to skip your lunch with prior approval from mgmt.
Also do you believe that UPS would not try to fill up the time with more work if you were able to work through lunch every day?

You're making my point. "Also do you believe that UPS would not try to fill up the time with more work if you were able to work through lunch every day" They certainly would and if they did there would be one large difference. We would be getting PAID! and PAID OT ($44/hour) for it!

My issue is I'm forced to sit and twiddle my thumbs for 1 hour every day. I also get 2 10 minute breaks. This 20 minutes is all I need or want. 60 minutes sitting in a UPS truck when the temp. is 10 degrees friend and not being paid sounds like being at work to me.

My question becomes why would you want to do this? Wouldn't you rather punch out at 1800 on a cold, blustery, winter night and get home to a warm supper or sit in your ice-box package car for an hour to get home at 1900?

I think thats a fair question. Isn't it?

I have one more question and I'll leave the subject alone. I respectfully ask how the hour lunch benefits the union when the center manager is adamant on us taking it?

Since the CA lawsuit, UPS can no longer just dock us an hour for lunch. We must be paid for what we put in the DIAD for lunch. However, we are instructed that we must enter an hour lunch in the DIAD everyday. Its because the hour lunch benefits UPS and not the employee or management wouldn't care how long of a break we took.

One more question. The hour lunch now makes OT earned at 530 instead of 430. How does that benefit the union employee? It doesn't! It benefits UPS because they have 6PM pick-up times and they can't have the driver making 1.5 his hourly wage for 2 or 3 hours every day.

Again, how does the hour lunch benefit the union employee???
 

stevetheupsguy

sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
You're making my point. "Also do you believe that UPS would not try to fill up the time with more work if you were able to work through lunch every day" They certainly would and if they did there would be one large difference. We would be getting PAID! and PAID OT ($44/hour) for it!

My issue is I'm forced to sit and twiddle my thumbs for 1 hour every day. I also get 2 10 minute breaks. This 20 minutes is all I need or want. 60 minutes sitting in a UPS truck when the temp. is 10 degrees friend and not being paid sounds like being at work to me.

My question becomes why would you want to do this? Wouldn't you rather punch out at 1800 on a cold, blustery, winter night and get home to a warm supper or sit in your ice-box package car for an hour to get home at 1900?

I think thats a fair question. Isn't it?

I have one more question and I'll leave the subject alone. I respectfully ask how the hour lunch benefits the union when the center manager is adamant on us taking it?

Since the CA lawsuit, UPS can no longer just dock us an hour for lunch. We must be paid for what we put in the DIAD for lunch. However, we are instructed that we must enter an hour lunch in the DIAD everyday. Its because the hour lunch benefits UPS and not the employee or management wouldn't care how long of a break we took.

One more question. The hour lunch now makes OT earned at 530 instead of 430. How does that benefit the union employee? It doesn't! It benefits UPS because they have 6PM pick-up times and they can't have the driver making 1.5 his hourly wage for 2 or 3 hours every day.

Again, how does the hour lunch benefit the union employee???
It helps you to get some needed rest and nutrients? Maybe you can get a good book or write a letter? I'm just saying, this hour is a benefit to your body and mind....................usually.
 

browniehound

Well-Known Member
Each day is different. If air is light and load is light I can get to some ground I will. If I have a lot of air and the load is bricked then I don't. The same stop could be at location 3000 one day and 4885 the next. Can't always get to it even if time permits. I keep hearing how service and reliability is all we can offer over the competition yet we as drivers are constantly fighting inconsistency.


Brownmonster, that was just an excellent post. We as drivers are counted on to be consistent, yet we have to fight inconsistency all day long.

For example, my first 3 pickups are picked on the delivery trace. I get a message once a week saying I'm not in compliance with my pick-up times. My other 10 I do right on the nose. the first 3 pick-up times are dictated by my load and split given to me.

My response is if you gave me the same work area every day I would be at those 3 pick-ups at the same time everyday. Until you can accomplish this amazing feat, you can stick your pick-up compliance somewhere else.

In other words, I have 3 on trace-pick-ups, but on mondays and fridays or the random other weekday you give me 20 stops in the middle of my route that I never did before? And you rotate the no-knowledge sections weekly. Mr. Dispatcher, are you performing experiments?

What ever happen to your route is YOUR route? Why do they have to screw with it on a daily basis? All this screwing around costs UPS in the long run. Misloads, no area knowledge, etc. Also, 3 drivers on the same street at one time??? I've witnessed this before and what does that say about our image???
 

browniehound

Well-Known Member
It helps you to get some needed rest and nutrients? Maybe you can get a good book or write a letter? I'm just saying, this hour is a benefit to your body and mind....................usually.


I'd rather do that at home. Why would I want to do it in an ice-cold package car??

I can write a letter? OK, what about the other 45 minutes? I can't idle the truck with heat because telematics will show an extra hour of idle time.

Are you really saying you want to sit in that cold package car and read a book? I must be missing something. Right?

Just answer me this. Why wouldn't you want to be paid to work that hour and get home 1 hour earlier?
 

klein

Für Meno :)
I'd rather do that at home. Why would I want to do it in an ice-cold package car??

I can write a letter? OK, what about the other 45 minutes? I can't idle the truck with heat because telematics will show an extra hour of idle time.

Are you really saying you want to sit in that cold package car and read a book? I must be missing something. Right?

Just answer me this. Why wouldn't you want to be paid to work that hour and get home 1 hour earlier?

They couldn't implement that kind of telematics here.
When it's minus 30 or even minus 20. The minute you leave the Bldg and the car stays on, until you get back.

Doesn't work otherwise, trust me.
Not even for a quick stop... windows will frost up, and you sit another 5 min. just to defrost them again.
They even freeze up during driving, it's that bad at times.
 
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