UPS Contract to be re-negotiated?

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
The master is done. It's just not signed. They prob won't address that. If people are just NO voting out of spite, they may be forced into a supplement.

Your talking about 15 supplements. 2/3 of the country. I don't think it's in the best interest of the teamsters to force this many people into something they don't want. We will have to see how this plays out but it may be in their best interest to make some changes to the national.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Your talking about 15 supplements. 2/3 of the country. I don't think it's in the best interest of the teamsters to force this many people into something they don't want. We will have to see how this plays out but it may be in their best interest to make some changes to the national.

Such as?

(Don't say healthcare as that is not on the table)
 

brown_trousers

Well-Known Member
Such as?

(Don't say healthcare as that is not on the table)

I think supplements can include additional wage increases and increased benefits that exceed the NMA, so technically.... the healthcare could now become a supplement issue as every area now tries to fight for increased benefits in their supplement
 

rpoz11

Well-Known Member
That could be devastating to those waiting to go full-time. If we lose a few big customers, it could easily double the seniority it takes to bid to a full-time position. And that is the real retirement issue, we need to be getting into full-time positions earlier in our career so that we can retire earlier. I dont want to still be working when im 70 years old because I spent too many years part-time.

This is exactly their plan, Brown Trousers.
Look at the grocery industry as I've said before.
TOS suggested that its going to take longer for PT'ers to hit FT; especially if we lose out on creating more Feeder jobs.
There will be a slow down in new FT jobs.
Some areas may get these new jobs to create openings.
Some areas are already seeing limits in the amount of FT routes.
They don't want to make available more FT jobs per area/demand.
 

beentheredonethat

Well-Known Member
Re: Current Results - (Renegotiations???)

With the exception of amazon, I havent heard of any of our big customers showing concern.... but I bet that will all change if we get too close to the august 1st deadline without a ratified contract.

That could be devastating to those waiting to go full-time. If we lose a few big customers, it could easily double the seniority it takes to bid to a full-time position. And that is the real retirement issue, we need to be getting into full-time positions earlier in our career so that we can retire earlier. I dont want to still be working when im 70 years old because I spent too many years part-time.

Lets hope Hoffa and UPS get their act together to resolve this as soon as possible!

There hasn't been much concern because the public was told their was a handshake agreement with the teamsters that will be voted on. THat quieted FDX. The news of the master passing also will quiet FDX, having local supplements fail won't be as big an issue.

Again, I get why you are upset. 10-15 years ago, I was in the same boat as you are now. I started to pay for health care. I'll grant you a few big shots do make a lot of money (Scott Davis and crew). But as many of you said, you wouldn't go into mgmt, partially to how we have no protection, partially due to the hours\pay and also the health care. I hope most of you understand how little sympathy you'd get from the majority of the population since the vast majority (except for govt employees) pay a large portion towards healthcare and the fact that UPS mgmt pays even more then we ask of the union folks.

With FDX paying well less then half (when you consider benefits) there's no way UPS can keep paying all the HW costs as well as other benefits (pension) etc that FDX doesn't pay for their contractors. Why the teamsters don't try to organize FDX is beyond me. If they were organized then you would get a better deal.
 

Satuirus2000

Well-Known Member
Central Region supplement has been rejected. Louisville crushed it.
Yup just saw our results on facebook.

AIR
Louisville Air Supplement-441 Yes...3520 No
Central Region Supplement-465 Yes...3594 No
National Master Agreement-483 Yes..3388 No

GROUND
Central Region Supplement-111 Yes...787 No
National Master Agreement-126 Yes...768 No

We have about 9000 workers so even though about half didn't vote( or weren't able to due to the MASSIVE friend* up of about thousands not receiving their ballots in our local), I'm glad we stood up to what we saw as something that just was not right.
 

oldupsman

Well-Known Member
Expect it to be quick. They will have conversations with the locals of each rejected supp. They will want to know what will get a YES. I will tell you, it won't be a health care issue. That's over now.

Such as?

(Don't say healthcare as that is not on the table)

Not according to my local officials. Health care is very much on the table. It's the only reason the supplement failed.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
One thing I would like to discuss, is Unity and what happens from here. Its all hypothetical of course, so take what I say with a grain of salt and just give it some thought.

The company since 1997 has set out to destroy the teamsters union. They tested the waters in 1997 with Ron Carey and felt the resistence of a UNIFIED teamster membership. There were some minor instances of picket line crossings, but nothing good enough to hurt the strikes efforts.

In 2002, the company negotiated quickly and didnt make any moves as all the pieces were not in place yet for an all out assault on the teamsters. In 2008, the company introduce dozens of technological devices to monitor employees and the Union failed to "curb" these devices when they had the chance.

For 8 years, the company has been planning for this day to come. That day, is to see the Teamsters cut in half in Unity. Like today, as we speak, the TA is barely passing with 52% of the vote.

Now I ask you, if in the next 30 days, the company tells the teamsters to "pound sand", what would be the Teamsters response? They gonna threaten a strike? Really? With 50% of the membership voting to approve this contract? How can you be serious with a strike threat if 50% of the members were willing to settle for less?

The company only has to let the strike happen, and 50% of the members will cross the lines and go to work. How are "WE" going to convince the 407's and Stinks and Heffermans to walk the picket line when they were all for the contract?

Our bargaining power has been ELIMINATED.

This split is not a winning gameplay for the Teamsters. AS I said before, no matter who is right or wrong on contractual issues, WE BOTH LOSE.

The 407's, Stinks and Heffermans of the world will cross the picket lines all day long as they are not about to stand up for the rest of us who voted down this contract. This was the strategy of the company from the jump. Divide and conquer.

They have done just that.

Come July 31st, if the teamsters are unable to negotiate better terms for those areas that voted down the supplementals, then the company will simply lock us out, and tell us "hey , theres our offer, take it or leave it"...

Without 100% Unity, and people like 407, Stink and Hefferman, we stand NO CHANCE of forcing a better deal with the company. The Teamsters got outplayed and are either just STUPID or incapable of understanding the long term effects of a bad negotiation.

Look at this issue from a perspective outside the box and tell me if I am not correct.

Thanks,

TOS
 

oldupsman

Well-Known Member
Your local. They will be asked what changes to the "supplement" will satisfy an agreement. If that answer has to do with the master, then that holding ratification hostage.

And then the mighty IBT will bring about it's swift and terrible retribution. The IBT can't do jack.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
I am not going to entertain a discussion on whether the TA is good or bad. I am not going to waste my time, or the members of BC’s time by trying to get anyone to align their beliefs with mine. The yes voters will never convince me that this contract is in my best interest. The no voters will never convince the contract supporters that this is not the best deal. I will agree to disagree. I am not looking for raises that are above inflation. What I don’t want is to have raises that do not keep up with inflation and pay more out of pocket for healthcare. By excepting this contract, would be saying that I have been overpaid for the last 5 years. And my body, family and spirit tells me I am not overpaid. I am paid well. I feel like I am getting paid fairly for the amount of work I do. I do not want more work, for less pay, when you count in inflation and added healthcare costs.

What I fear, is that UPS is in a slow decent from what it once was. They have done so much to trim expense here and there. Added technology to achieve a very high efficiency. Trim miles. Business deliveries in the AM is not the norm anymore. Cut healthcare expenses. Make progression longer. I could go on and on. This is why I am afraid for the future of this once great company. Raising profits by cutting, cutting and cutting is the sign of a company that is in trouble. I understand to trim expenses, but where is the growth? Where are the plans to expand? Other then the TNT debacle, I don’t see it. The fact that Hoffa/Hall has brought this contract to the members for a vote, is a sign that in order for UPS to be profitable in the future, for the stock to be desirable, they need to cut payroll costs. At the least have the payroll rise slower then inflation. That alone should scare anyone. At some point, if we continue to follow the trajectory, UPS’ers will be able to apply for government aid. Don’t misread that as next year or even next contract we will need food stamps to survive. I am talking decades down the road. You can’t have inflation rise faster then raises indefinitely. If UPS can’t keep our pay raises at the same rate as inflation in this economy, then we are all doomed. Lower raises coupled with more health expenses and we should all be afraid.

As for the majority of the supplements being voted down, this is disastrous for Hoffa/Hall. You can bet your .70 cent raise that they are now working out a plan for damage control. This is not as simple as “fixing” some supplements. If anyone has bothered to actually read and understand the IBT constitution, you would realize that all bets are off the table. Yes, I agree, it is not likely for the master to be re-written, but large changes will need to be made to the failed supplements if there is any hope of getting the TA signed. This is most likely the end of the Hoffa/Hall era. If they somehow get all 15 supplements to pass with the Teamcare intact and not addressed in the supplements, there will be many many teamsters who didn’t vote asking “What happened to my insurance?” Unfortunately, as in life, people do not take the time study things that affect them when it is just on paper. Once these members start to see how their insurance has changed, they will then probably become more involved and vocal with the union. I can’t see how Hoffa/Hall can come out of this with a future with the Teamsters.

Again, you all can sit back and say that the TA will be signed, that all will be good, but the fact of the matter is, this will be a point in time to remember. This will not be forgotten quickly, and this is something that is causing a tremendous amount of stress, time and endless emails, meeting and such at the IBT and at UPS. This can be played out in so many different ways. Read the IBT constitution. Understand it. Once you do, you will understand how big the 15 failed supplements ts are for the IBT, Hoffa/Hall, UPS and the members. The IBT constitution allows several options for this to play out. NLRB will most likely be interrupting this constitution. I even see lawsuits being brought to the table....depending on Hoffa's interpretation of the constitution and how he uses it.
 
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Hawfuh Sux

Old Guard Assassin!
If the Helthcare issue is not settled in the West we will re-vote against granting us the legal right to strike. And we will exercise that right if we have to. We will not accept the C6/TEAMCARE plan!
 

stink219

Well-Known Member
If the Helthcare issue is not settled in the West we will re-vote against granting us the legal right to strike. And we will exercise that right if we have to. We will not accept the C6/TEAMCARE plan!
So your supplementally holding the Master Agreement hostage?
 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
One thing I would like to discuss, is Unity and what happens from here. Its all hypothetical of course, so take what I say with a grain of salt and just give it some thought.

The company since 1997 has set out to destroy the teamsters union. They tested the waters in 1997 with Ron Carey and felt the resistence of a UNIFIED teamster membership. There were some minor instances of picket line crossings, but nothing good enough to hurt the strikes efforts.

In 2002, the company negotiated quickly and didnt make any moves as all the pieces were not in place yet for an all out assault on the teamsters. In 2008, the company introduce dozens of technological devices to monitor employees and the Union failed to "curb" these devices when they had the chance.

For 8 years, the company has been planning for this day to come. That day, is to see the Teamsters cut in half in Unity. Like today, as we speak, the TA is barely passing with 52% of the vote.

Now I ask you, if in the next 30 days, the company tells the teamsters to "pound sand", what would be the Teamsters response? They gonna threaten a strike? Really? With 50% of the membership voting to approve this contract? How can you be serious with a strike threat if 50% of the members were willing to settle for less?

The company only has to let the strike happen, and 50% of the members will cross the lines and go to work. How are "WE" going to convince the 407's and Stinks and Heffermans to walk the picket line when they were all for the contract?

Our bargaining power has been ELIMINATED.

This split is not a winning gameplay for the Teamsters. AS I said before, no matter who is right or wrong on contractual issues, WE BOTH LOSE.

The 407's, Stinks and Heffermans of the world will cross the picket lines all day long as they are not about to stand up for the rest of us who voted down this contract. This was the strategy of the company from the jump. Divide and conquer.

They have done just that.

Come July 31st, if the teamsters are unable to negotiate better terms for those areas that voted down the supplementals, then the company will simply lock us out, and tell us "hey , theres our offer, take it or leave it"...

Without 100% Unity, and people like 407, Stink and Hefferman, we stand NO CHANCE of forcing a better deal with the company. The Teamsters got outplayed and are either just STUPID or incapable of understanding the long term effects of a bad negotiation.

Look at this issue from a perspective outside the box and tell me if I am not correct.

Thanks,

TOS

Say what u want about them but I don't think there's anyway the three guys u mentioned would cross a picket line.
 

Ms.PacMan

Well-Known Member
The 407's, Stinks and Heffermans of the world will cross the picket lines all day long as they are not about to stand up for the rest of us who voted down this contract....
:lol: I laughed!

I would hope they wouldn't cross but you bring up a valid point....we never had anyone cross the picket line in 97 but the weak and whiney were never forgotten. They need to fall in line and make sure it's the right one.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
..we never had anyone cross the picket line in 97 but the weak and whiney were never forgotten. They need to fall in line and make sure it's the right one.

Try reading that again and see if you understand the paradoxical humor inherent in the two juxtapositional thoughts that are suppose to support one another.
 

stink219

Well-Known Member
That TOS is funny. I love a good strike. Obviously doesn't know that I was arrested in 97 because of a picket line crosser. Does he really think the stewards will cross? If you can't recognize us, 407, Heff and myself will be the hooligans in the front. Im sure TOS will be there too, taking notes.
 
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