Vote count.

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
Had a strike fund vote count today.

Over 8k ballots went out. Less than 14% were sent back.

Do we blame the PT workers for this? Let's face it ladies and gentlemen. It's the total membership that's lazy and doesn't care.

It's sad.
 

Wontmake9.5

My job is fun
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Yes
 

rod

Retired 20 years
Had a strike fund vote count today.

Over 8k ballots went out. Less than 14% were sent back.

Do we blame the PT workers for this? Let's face it ladies and gentlemen. It's the total membership that's lazy and doesn't care.

It's sad.
ouch---that totally sucks.
 

rod

Retired 20 years
Had a strike fund vote count today.

Over 8k ballots went out. Less than 14% were sent back.

Do we blame the PT workers for this? Let's face it ladies and gentlemen. It's the total membership that's lazy and doesn't care.

It's sad.
So is it a binding vote with only 14% turnout? Did it turn out in your favor?
 

scooby0048

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Had a strike fund vote count today.

Over 8k ballots went out. Less than 14% were sent back.

Do we blame the PT workers for this? Let's face it ladies and gentlemen. It's the total membership that's lazy and doesn't care.

It's sad.

Was this national? I never received any ballot and this is the first I'm hearing of it.
 

UPSER1987

Well-Known Member
Had a strike fund vote count today.

Over 8k ballots went out. Less than 14% were sent back.

Do we blame the PT workers for this? Let's face it ladies and gentlemen. It's the total membership that's lazy and doesn't care.

It's sad.

Everyone on BC voted - 100 percentile
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
Was this national? I never received any ballot and this is the first I'm hearing of it.

No this was a local strike fund vote.

My point was that many of these company's don't have PT workers. I don't totally agree with the notion that the vote count is bad because of PT workers. I agree it's a factor but not the main one.
 

scooby0048

This page left intentionally blank
No this was a local strike fund vote.

My point was that many of these company's don't have PT workers. I don't totally agree with the notion that the vote count is bad because of PT workers. I agree it's a factor but not the main one.

Gotcha, I was surprised when you mentioned this that I hadn't heard about it. I agree that PT membership does skew the numbers when it comes to voting.
 

zubenelgenubi

Living for Lunch Break
No this was a local strike fund vote.

My point was that many of these company's don't have PT workers. I don't totally agree with the notion that the vote count is bad because of PT workers. I agree it's a factor but not the main one.

The takeaway may be that, at least in your local, it's not just UPS employees who are apathetic. My question is what do those of us who are involved do to increase involvement? Elected officials don't seem to mind the apathy, it works to their benefit. They use the members themselves as scapegoats for the failings of the Union. The members, however, work for a living, and many haven't the energy to be more involved. Those whose job it is to keep the workforce organized, all too often, get a free pass.

If I were a BA, I would make it my mission to get voter turn out and meeting attendance as high as possible. We are way behind the curve on using technology to keep the members up to date with what's going on and why they should care. It's nice that the international is starting to catch up, but we need a system that the locals can deploy easily because they are the face of the Union to most members.
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
I went back and re-read what you wrote. You don't think a lack of PT membership who actually vote doesn't skew the votes? Explain...

I think PT votes is a factor. I don't think it's THE reason.

I believe that many FT workers don't care or (and) feel their vote doesn't matter.

Look at any US election numbers. People just don't vote. And 90% of FT workers don't care unless they get a raise. Just look at how many know nothing about the pension or health care.
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
The takeaway may be that, at least in your local, it's not just UPS employees who are apathetic. My question is what do those of us who are involved do to increase involvement? Elected officials don't seem to mind the apathy, it works to their benefit. They use the members themselves as scapegoats for the failings of the Union. The members, however, work for a living, and many haven't the energy to be more involved. Those whose job it is to keep the workforce organized, all too often, get a free pass.

If I were a BA, I would make it my mission to get voter turn out and meeting attendance as high as possible. We are way behind the curve on using technology to keep the members up to date with what's going on and why they should care. It's nice that the international is starting to catch up, but we need a system that the locals can deploy easily because they are the face of the Union to most members.

I disagree. It's easy to see it that way with UPS who is a National company (and negotiated nationally). This strike fund would have helped many company contract negotiations that a local does their selves.

It's a bargaining chip that helps greatly. Like I said in the thread I started in UPS discussions. To many look at just UPS.

This strike fund was brought up by members. The local spent money to see it thru. Many like myself (who stood next to BAs) passed out info at many company's. It's easy to be jaded because UPS is a huge company that makes locals lives hell.
 

scooby0048

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I think PT votes is a factor. I don't think it's THE reason.

I believe that many FT workers don't care or (and) feel their vote doesn't matter.

Look at any US election numbers. People just don't vote. And 90% of FT workers don't care unless they get a raise. Just look at how many know nothing about the pension or health care.
Point taken.
 

zubenelgenubi

Living for Lunch Break
I disagree. It's easy to see it that way with UPS who is a National company (and negotiated nationally). This strike fund would have helped many company contract negotiations that a local does their selves.

It's a bargaining chip that helps greatly. Like I said in the thread I started in UPS discussions. To many look at just UPS.

This strike fund was brought up by members. The local spent money to see it thru. Many like myself (who stood next to BAs) passed out info at many company's. It's easy to be jaded because UPS is a huge company that makes locals lives hell.

Maybe I'm not understanding something? Which part do you disagree with? I think comparing that vote to the UPS contract vote, in regards to FT vs PT voter turn out, is a little apples to oranges. But I do agree that general member apathy is a problem. I was just pondering what it would take to turn things around. Are you saying you think locals are doing a good job of organizing and it's simply a toxic membership problem?

Do you think if more people voted it would have changed the outcome? Or are you simply dismayed that the strike fund was voted down?
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
Sorry I apologize. I've been drinking and answered quickly because I'm out. I read your first paragraph quickly and took it as BAs don't care and welcome apathy.

The takeaway may be that, at least in your local, it's not just UPS employees who are apathetic. My question is what do those of us who are involved do to increase involvement? Elected officials don't seem to mind the apathy, it works to their benefit. They use the members themselves as scapegoats for the failings of the Union. The members, however, work for a living, and many haven't the energy to be more involved. Those whose job it is to keep the workforce organized, all too often, get a free pass.

How do you do that? You're a steward. How many members actually listen to you. How many actually care to educate themselves. They look for easy answers and expect you to give them to them.

If I were a BA, I would make it my mission to get voter turn out and meeting attendance as high as possible. We are way behind the curve on using technology to keep the members up to date with what's going on and why they should care. It's nice that the international is starting to catch up, but we need a system that the locals can deploy easily because they are the face of the Union to most members.

My local had a website that they post everything on. The BAs and local officials have instagrams and twitters as well. People don't care. Most use social media to escape not inform.

Maybe I'm not understanding something? Which part do you disagree with? I think comparing that vote to the UPS contract vote, in regards to FT vs PT voter turn out, is a little apples to oranges. But I do agree that general member apathy is a problem. I was just pondering what it would take to turn things around. Are you saying you think locals are doing a good job of organizing and it's simply a toxic membership problem?

I can't judge every local. I'm sure your local is completely different than mine. As are many other locals. Though I do believe that it's not as far apart as apple's and oranges as you do. People do not like giving money up and the fact that they didn't feel the need to vote knowing that the outcome could deduct from their gross pay says a lot to me.

Do you think if more people voted it would have changed the outcome? Or are you simply dismayed that the strike fund was voted down?

I'm more dismay about the voter turn out. I wanted the fund yes but I never tried to sell it. I always just tried to answer questions and give the facts. I only said yes or no when someone asked me how I was voting.

But no I don't think more votes would have changed the outcome. I think people distrust the union and also don't like to give money.
 

zubenelgenubi

Living for Lunch Break
Sorry I apologize. I've been drinking and answered quickly because I'm out. I read your first paragraph quickly and took it as BAs don't care and welcome apathy.



How do you do that? You're a steward. How many members actually listen to you. How many actually care to educate themselves. They look for easy answers and expect you to give them to them.



My local had a website that they post everything on. The BAs and local officials have instagrams and twitters as well. People don't care. Most use social media to escape not inform.



I can't judge every local. I'm sure your local is completely different than mine. As are many other locals. Though I do believe that it's not as far apart as apple's and oranges as you do. People do not like giving money up and the fact that they didn't feel the need to vote knowing that the outcome could deduct from their gross pay says a lot to me.



I'm more dismay about the voter turn out. I wanted the fund yes but I never tried to sell it. I always just tried to answer questions and give the facts. I only said yes or no when someone asked me how I was voting.

But no I don't think more votes would have changed the outcome. I think people distrust the union and also don't like to give money.

No worries, I'm really trying to work on keeping my posts shorter and clearer.

Members will listen to me if they have a vested interest in the issue. I'm working on gaining their trust by increasing my understanding. If they see me as someone who knows what he is talking about, then I will have better luck at convincing them to do things like vote.

At the core of the apathy, I believe, is members being overwhelmed by the sheer complexity of the contract, company policy, the law, and how they all interplay. Most people simply don't have the time or resources to commit to understanding their rights and responsibilities properly. I believe we could start to turn the tide on apathy by fighting for simplification, clarity, and consistency with the contract and its enforcement.

On a final note, I will say I sympathize with BA's. I understand that UPS is just one of the companies they have to deal with, and our contract is over 200 pages long, not to mention all the panel decisions and past practices that go along with it. I assume most other contracts aren't nearly as long, but that's still a lot of stuff for those guys to know and enforce.
 
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